Now that the Iraqi elections have happened... was it really worth it?

(this thread is not ment to discuss the merits of the war in iraq... there are plenty of other threads for that)

The current reasoning for the war in Iraq was to bring freedom and to bring democracy to the middle east...

Yet now it seems that the Iraqis wish to have a religious based government that could be quite sympathetic towards Iran, and we all know the track record for freedom/democracy within a fundamentalist/religious state is quite poor.

My question is this: How does this make you feel?

We've spent 1000+ lives trying to secure Iraq, now to only have it turn into a religious state... seems like a bit of a waste to me.

As long as the US continues to spread military bases across the globe, it certainly will be worth it to those who wish to conquer and enslave mankind.

On a more serious note.

Removing Iran from the category of 'global threat' will be worth the efforts to those who believe preemptive strikes continues to strengthen homeland security.

i was not asked to vote on this war in any way shape or form, please disqualify me from the 'we ' in that statement.

"The current reasoning for the war in Iraq was to bring freedom and to bring democracy to the middle east... "

when i looked at that line in your post, i immediately thought about how i feel about it. Its sad, its a god damned shame to be more precise. as i mentioned in the first sentance they didnt ask 'us' if we wanted to go to war to begin with. they told 'us' we were going there to 1. remove WMD and 2. break up the link to the terrorists behind 9/11.

since it has been proven both of those were just about as existant as the tooth fairy, i am just sick to my stomach we even invaded, sicker still that we stayed, and just annoyed in general at the stupidity of the whole scenario.

Never Felt Better

Originally posted by negativenihil
My question is this: How does this make you feel?

I'll let you know how I feel if it ever happens.

Until then, I feel just fine.

Thanks for asking.

Originally posted by Majic
I'll let you know how I feel if it ever happens.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Iraq Winners Allied With Iran Are the Opposite of U.S. Vision


But, in one of the greatest ironies of the U.S. intervention, Iraqis instead went to the polls and elected a government with a strong religious base -- and very close ties to the Islamic republic next door. It is the last thing the administration expected from its costly Iraq policy -- $300 billion and counting, U.S. and regional analysts say.

You were saying?

Originally posted by jprophet420
i was not asked to vote on this war in any way shape or form, please disqualify me from the 'we ' in that statement.

Are your tax dollars somehow not being used to fund this war?

You and I are both paying for this war, even if we had no direct say in it.

The Problem With Prophecy

Originally posted by negativenihil
You were saying?

I don't subscribe to the Washington Post, and I won't give them personal information, but let's get to the point.

Is there an Islamic government in Iraq?

Ask me then.

Originally posted by Majic
I don't subscribe to the Washington Post, and I won't give them personal information, but let's get to the point.

I'd be more than happy to u2u the article's contents if you'd like to view it in full.

Is there an Islamic government in Iraq?

Ask me then.

Not yet, but that seems to be the will of the Iraqi people. The point of this thread was to see how people felt about the idea that our collective faces are basically being spit in.

Originally posted by negativenihil
that seems to be the will of the Iraqi people.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Blogs from Iraq. Here is what the Iraqi people are thinking,
straight from the Iraqis themselves. Now that they have a
free voice, they are using it. It's a beautiful sight to see!

I'd like to ask this question to someone who lost a family member because he(or she) had to fight for some other country. Flyer woud you still be so happy if someone you love would have been killed for iraqi freedom or better yet, how would you feel if the reason your loved one went to war was proven false?

[edit on 15-2-2005 by Kramthenothing]

Kreskin eat Your Heart Out

Originally posted by negativenihil
Not yet, but that seems to be the will of the Iraqi people.

You don't know the will of the Iraqi people, and either does anyone else but the Iraqi people themselves.

Why not see what they actually do instead of judging them on something they have not done?

Why do you have such a problem with the people of Iraq?

Bodily Fluids In The Forum

Originally posted by negativenihil
The point of this thread was to see how people felt about the idea that our collective faces are basically being spit in.

No one has spit in my face, but quite a few people in this forum have pissed on my leg today.

You're asking questions based on hypotheticals and assumptions that are not substantiated in fact.

So how do I feel?

Like you're trying to jerk me around.

Let's talk some more once there's an Islamic government in Iraq.

But be patient: it may take a lot longer than you think.

Originally posted by Majic
Why do you have such a problem with the people of Iraq?

You're asking questions based on hypotheticals and assumptions that are not substantiated in fact.

So how do I feel?

Like you're trying to jerk me around.

Let's talk some more once there's an Islamic government in Iraq.

But be patient: it may take a lot longer than you think.

What? i have no issue with the Iraqi people, nor am i trying to "jerk you around"

I've offered to provide you with the exact data that helped me form this post, and all i asked for was an opinion.

If that's too much to ask, please ignore my posts

Edit- if you have an issue with the washington post, here is a link to any number of articles on the same topic from different news outlets: news.google.com...

[edit on 15-2-2005 by negativenihil]

Originally posted by Kramthenothing
Flyer woud you still be so happy if someone you love
would have been killed for iraqi freedom or better yet,
how would you feel if the reason your loved one went
to war was proven false?

Just about everyone in my family has volunteered to
serve this country. I was in the Army for five years.
My husband was in the Air Force. My father was in
the Army and is a Korean war vet. My father in law
was in the Army. My brother is still in the Air Force.

We all volunteered to serve our country and we understood
when we volunteered that some times when people,
ourselves included, volunteer to do such a thing, that some
of those people don't come back.

Having Iraq free IS PART of keeping America free. A democratic
Iraq and Afghanistan mean that terrorists have two less footholds
in the world and two less places to train for terrorist attacks against
America. You are insinuating that the war in Iraq was for false
ideas?? I disagree. Freedom isn't false. Freedom in the Middle
East and surrounding area is HUGE. Freedom brings food, education,
medical knowledge and supplies. All these things fight terrorism
and they fight the false anti-American ideology that the Imams
have been spreading to the people. They fed the people there
all sorts of anti-Americanisms so that the people would be blind
with hate towards America and so that the people wouldn't see
the evil being done to them by their own governments and their
own religious leaders.

There is nothing false about bringing freedom to Iraq. Go to the
blog link that I posted. The Iraqis are free, they are happy, and
that means that terrorism is loosing.

[edit on 2/15/2005 by FlyersFan]

No, it was not worth the human or financial costs. The mission was a failure (WMDs, or any of the other excuses the US has added) and Iraq is more of a threat to the US now than when Saddam was in control. We've created a breeding ground for terrorists.

I am against all wars, but especially against those that have no defensive merit at all. The U.S. military was not created as a world police force and its usage as such disgusts me. Soldiers are trained killers, not peace keepers. Many non-combatants have died and been forever maimed and scarred in this needless fight. Pretty much all Iraqis have been through at least three wars during their lifetimes now. All of which have devastated their lives and their country in ways none of us living abroad know. They really need peace and I fear they will never get it with constant western meddling in their affairs.

As nasty as Saddam was claimed to be, the hundreds of thousands of bodies in mass graves have NOT been found, just a few thousand. Which can be attributed to the Iran/Iraq war. While I am sure that living in Iraq is harsh in itself, Saddam was not slaughtering his people constantly during those brief times of peace in the country. All reasons for saving the Iraqi people from their government are fabrications. They would absolutely have been better off with Sadam in power and far more would be alive and uninjured today without having to go through yet another ruinous war. While living under a dictatorship is not a perfect way to live, at least living with the quality of life they had and the number of lives they had was better then than it is now.

Originally posted by negativenihil
We've spent 1000+ lives trying to secure Iraq, now to only have it turn into a religious state... seems like a bit of a waste to me.

Since when was the point of the invasion the establishment of a secular government in iraq? Isn’t that what they had before? Muslims are ruled by Islamic law and the concept of a separation between church and state is completely alien to them.

Sistani already said they will have a sharia based constitution in Iraq and according to Islamic law shaking hands with girls is not permissible and playing chess is "absolutely forbidden" in his own words.

Check out the man’s website at www.sistani.org... …. it’s an interesting read.


[edit on 15-2-2005 by transient]

Originally posted by curme
The mission was a failure .

Oh my goodness. I haven't had a good laugh
like that in a long time. Thanks!

Iraq just had it's first free elections in 40 years. The rape
rooms are shut down. The mass murder of Iraqis has
stopped. The mass murder of Kurds by WMD has stopped.
The terrorists were slapped in the face when the Iraqis
bravely ignored their dire warnings and voted anyways.
The theft of billions of $$$ from Iraqis in the U.N. Oil for Food
Program has stopped and the Iraqis will now be getting all
their oil money. School yards are being freed (by American
and Coalition soldiers) from the stockpiles of ammunitions
that the terrorists have been storing there. And so on,
and so on .... Iraqis are now free and are using their
voices on the internet in BLOGS to say exactly what they
think of the free elections, the terrorists, and FREEDOM
in general. www.abovetopsecret.com...

As I said - A free Iraq is one less foothold the terrorists have
in the world. A free Iraq now has food, medicine, education, and
$$$$$ (that had previously been stolen from them) and all these
things combat terrorism which makes the world a safer place for
everyone, including Americans.

It's slow going, but it is definately SUCCESSFULL!

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Iraqis are now free and are using their
voices on the internet in BLOGS

No offense, but any Iraqis hooked up to the internet and writing blogs are probably not very representative of the state of that society at this time.

To be honest, after reading some of those things they just seem like a low form of propaganda. I doubt many Iraqis even speak English.




[edit on 15-2-2005 by transient]

It doesn't matter if the mission was a success or not. What matters is the impact it has had on the world as a whole. There were worse governments than iraq. There are worse things than rape rooms. Yeah, they killed a bunch of kurds, but they did not mass murder everyone. I would say mass murder would be similar to the ethnic cleansing of albanians or the millions of people who died under stalin soviet union.

I'm not saying saddam was a good guy here.

Lets put this into perspective. China executes over 5000 people a year for crimes by shooting hanging etc. It has a higher execution rate than any two countries. Even though the numbers are probably unresearchable, I have a funny feeling that less were killed in Iraq. N.Korea is in such a bad shape that kids are actually being abducted and killed for food in rare instances.

Freedom could have been better applied to a different country.

And FlyersFan, Im a flyers fan too, but I can't agree with you about it being a victory against terrorism. Everything I have read and heard points to more terrorists in the region than ever before. Crushing blow to terrorism? more like catalyst.
Afghanistan was more successful than iraq.

Is it really our place to impose what we think is right to the rest of the world?
Genital mutilation (female circumcision) is common in parts of africa. Just because we think its wrong and wretched, does that make it right for us to change their culture because we are disgusted and think its inhumane? Its not inhumane to them.

In reply to the thread, I feel as though the government doesn't represent its people, particularly the president. He is the president of congress, nothing more, he has to remember that he has 290million bosses, none of which he is listening to.

[edit on 15-2-2005 by Galvatron]

god I hope they do cancel hocky this year!!!