If Hillary was inevitable then why/how did she lose?

a reply to: matafuchs

I don't hate Trump.

I feel like I am very open-minded about him even though I also feel like I have a lot of reasons to doubt and question him.

And I really, really like most Trump supporters. I think they see the very best in Trump and hope for the very best that Trump has offered: The Draining of a Foul Swamp.

I also know, for the most part, the narrative of his campaign and the reported dynamics between him and the GOP leadership.

I tend to not trust narratives pushed by the media.

I know why you have very good reason to feel confident about Trump and I don't fault you one bit for it. I am just far more cynical.

I do not think the U.S has imploded since he took office, either. In fact, I was listening to liberal NPR the other day and they were talking about how Democrats thought the U.S. and Democracy was dead after he was elected, and went on to say, after a year, they see that democracy is alive and well and all the checks and balances are working as they should.

I mean, all of it was gag-worthy to me as an independent...but I agree with YOU...the U.S. has definitely not imploded because of Trump. I never thought it would though.

I want you to get me Matafuchs...I am not sure you do though. I'm not your adversary.


ETA:

Holy crap. My comment is embarrassingly filled with sentences that start with 'I.'

Self-important, I appear.

a reply to: amazing

I think she'll run. I could be wrong. Remember that there are way too many pictures of Trump being Cozy with Hillary Clinton and he still ran and won.

It sounds like she's planning on running at least. But I don't think the dynamics are quite the same with her as with Trump. She's passed herself off as the oh-so-wise advice giver with a heart bigger than the whole world... but her track record isn't so hot, and people have been hurt, and she just pretends like nothing happened, and she carries on with nary a care in the world.

I'll never forget the alar panic she and Meryl Streep started way back in the day... the 90s? Maybe even the 80s. And then there's the vaccine-autism connection she helped Jenny McCarthy publicize -- I guess they were the original anti-vaxxers!

Trump never pretended to be anything but a ruthless businessman... loud and proud... and he tapped right into the discontent among the voters. I'm not sure Oprah can do the same.

a reply to: amazing

I still have friends that don't even know there was a lawsuit and trial about the Democratic primary corruption and who don't think Hillary Rigged it.

Wow. These are the voters who worry me... who don't even know what's going on, but think they do! I much prefer someone who disagrees with me but can articulate their position with reason -- and even passion! -- than folks that don't even know enough to have a reasoned discussion. And they vote. Ugh.

a reply to: Edumakated

I do think the Dems were not prepared for how popular he became as a candidate though.

Definitely. They probably thought they were giving a small faction of discontents someone to rally around... mostly to distract them and keep them out of the real battles. Boy were they wrong!

a reply to: Boadicea

Do not disagree with anything you wrote. And yet, Oprah is so influential that she can put a book at the top of the NYT bestsellers list with her endorsement.

I think she's scary with her celebrity influence. Trump never had that kind of influence over the *masses*.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

You are right. Hate is a strong word for your views on Trump...How about loathe?

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: MotherMayEye

You are right. Hate is a strong word for your views on Trump...How about loathe?

WTH? It's so frustrating.

There are SOOOO many people on ATS that call me a Trump supporter.

Loathe is not right either.

Apathetic, guarded, skeptical, but hopeful...as long as he is president, I am very hopeful.

There are more words that would describe how I feel about Trump, but those leap to my mind first.

***

ETA: I have been wavering about my contributions to ATS, lately. I feel like if I disagree with Trump haters...I am called a Trump cultist. If I criticize him, I am told I loathe and hate him.

There are so few people on ATS that actually take the time to hear what I have to say -- unconventional as my thoughts may be. I don't know why I bother, anymore. I have to either be a cultist or a hater. Pushed out of another forum, I'm feeling.

a reply to: Boadicea

Trump is not a reality TV star. He is someone who exploited it and expanded his base and reach. Too all kinds of people.
Oprah is a reality/TV show host. She is someone who used it to create her name and limited reach. Not all kinds of people.

When I say kinds of people, I mean demographic by age and sex, not race.

Trump was, is and will again be a businessman with a vast portfolio that is only growing with his children.
Oprah has Steadman and The View maybe?

Corey Booker/Sherrod Brown/Kamala Harris with a Hispanic VP (female) is my prediction.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: MotherMayEye

There was no 'plan' for Trump.

Well, there was this plan that the nitwit Dems and the DNC mobsters cooked up, called "The pied piper strategy". The DNC colluded with the corrupted MSM to elevate Trump, he was given an almost unlimited amount of air time and PR for free, in order to help him become the Republican candidate - a candidate that was supposed to be easy to beat for HRC.

It's safe to say that this strategy backfired for Hillary and the Dems in the most spectacular way possible.

www.salon.com...

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Boadicea

Trump is not a reality TV star. He is someone who exploited it and expanded his base and reach.

You're suggesting that Trump was thinking about a political base since 2004. That his campaign was in the works since at least 2004.

IF that is true, then why on earth should anyone believe they witnessed events naturally unfold in real time that were not planned out beginning 13 years ago?

I'm going with 'planned out.' All of it. For longer than 13 years, too.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

OK gotcha. I guess my point of view, is being from NY, I have known about Trump forever and the things he did outside of politics and who he was. Not the NY Post description post June 2015. Some people do not want to believe it.

Hopeful is a good thing.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Sorry, I was just describing 'name' recognition. He walked in at the right time with the right people in 2015.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: MotherMayEye

OK gotcha. I guess my point of view, is being from NY, I have known about Trump forever and the things he did outside of politics and who he was. Not the NY Post description post June 2015. Some people do not want to believe it.

Hopeful is a good thing.

I am 46. I remember Trump from the 1980s. He's no different, really, than he has ever been.

I even have the Trump board game that came out in the late 1980s....how many people can claim that? Less than a million.

a reply to: MotherMayEye


I think more people here 'get' you than you realize. I am a Trump supporter ( and I recognize his flaws and cringe sometimes ). I picked up on the fact that you are neither a hater or supporter. I've seen several posters that fall into that category. It's kinda easy to see when the attitude comes across as "Why are you doing stuff that makes me defend Trump?" Ya know that mild disgust that can only come from someone that doesn't really like Trump but also recognizes the lies being spread. Don't worry. Some of us 'get' you.

a reply to: Khaleesi

Thanks, Khaleesi. That really means a lot to me and I needed that.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: amazing

I think she'll run. I could be wrong. Remember that there are way too many pictures of Trump being Cozy with Hillary Clinton and he still ran and won.

It sounds like she's planning on running at least. But I don't think the dynamics are quite the same with her as with Trump. She's passed herself off as the oh-so-wise advice giver with a heart bigger than the whole world... but her track record isn't so hot, and people have been hurt, and she just pretends like nothing happened, and she carries on with nary a care in the world.

I'll never forget the alar panic she and Meryl Streep started way back in the day... the 90s? Maybe even the 80s. And then there's the vaccine-autism connection she helped Jenny McCarthy publicize -- I guess they were the original anti-vaxxers!

Trump never pretended to be anything but a ruthless businessman... loud and proud... and he tapped right into the discontent among the voters. I'm not sure Oprah can do the same.

But and here's a serious question. keeping in mind that all famous people at Trump or Oprah's level are held to a higher standard than we hold for ourselves, the common person and that not everything written or said about them is true.

Keeping those two things in mind, I think that Oprah has done more good than harm, genuinely a good person, trying to do the right things? Yes, no?

It only matters because, I believe that our votes do matter and that we should vote for someone.

originally posted by: amazing
I believe that our votes do matter and that we should vote for someone.

Or vote to get the third party candidate who is polling the highest to that 5% they need to get equal ballot access and public funding. Who cares if you vote for the actual winner? I haven't voted for a winner since the 1990s and kind of hope I never do. The POTUS always does stuff I don't want to have contributed to.

I can't imagine any Democrat or Republican president accomplishing something as desperately needed and as fabulous as the tearing down of the wretched two-party system.

If the choice is between two corrupt candidates....I chose to not vote for either and aid & abet the corruption. The day I vote for a third party candidate and they get that magic 5% and don't even come close to actually winning...is the day I feel like the biggest WINNER EVER!

She lost because all the news sites saying Hilary rigged the vote against Bernie. Majority of Bernie support didn't want Hilary. So Trump was the only option. Also Trump approved that she rigged her votes against Bernie. Dig the internet. Your soo behind.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: amazing
I believe that our votes do matter and that we should vote for someone.

Or vote to get the third party candidate who is polling the highest to that 5% they need to get equal ballot access and public funding. Who cares if you vote for the actual winner? I haven't voted for a winner since the 1990s and kind of hope I never do. The POTUS always does stuff I don't want to have contributed to.

I can't imagine any Democrat or Republican president accomplishing something as desperately needed and as fabulous as the tearing down of the wretched two-party system.

If the choice is between two corrupt candidates....I chose to not vote for either and aid & abet the corruption. The day I vote for a third party candidate and they get that magic 5% and don't even come close to actually winning...is the day I feel like the biggest WINNER EVER!

I did third party last time. I agree.

originally posted by: Arnie123
a reply to: Xcathdra

That one was a huge one, the cognitive dissonance and absolute "head in the sand", fingers in ears, lalalala BS that leftist were doing was also a determining factor.

I've never witnessed such a mass in delusions before, peoples worlds literally ended during election night, the craziest stuff I have ever seen. Now on the run and almost exhausted, I would like to see how the Dems will utilize their last bit of foundation.

Can't run with cutting taxes, Trump did that, can't talk immigration, Trump is actively working on that, can't bring in Military, Trump pushed for more funding and these are fresh.

Mmmmmmmmmmmm....

Democrats have nothing really to run on and their "resistance" (5th column in my opinion) have put them into the position of opposing everything Trump does, including the good things, like Tax cuts. They seem to be going all in on the Russia bs and we still see that, most recently with Dems claiming the twitter trend release the memo and some of the info in the FISA memo are the work of the Russians.

The real test will be what happens when this memo comes (1-2 week release date now) and can be corroborated. How many Dems do you think are going to be pissed people in the upper levels of their own party, including the messiah Obama and Stan Hillary, used them to push / conceal their illegal actions.

I cant believe every single Democrat in Congress or in the Obama administration were privy to what was occurring. I imaging some of those people are going to be pissed to not only find out what they were doing but using the Democrats not in the know to hide evidence / obstruct.

I think the predictions about the end of the current Democratic party is on target. You will see a split, where moderate Democrats go in one direction and the extreme left of the Democratic party splitting off into their own party to push their agenda.

That is assuming the Democratic party survives whats coming down the mountain and are somehow able to hold on to their base of supporters.

Given the fact Democrats still cant except Clinton's loss and still think Trump is a russian agent im not holding my breath. Right now all Democrats are doing is rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.