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Another anti-gunner shows their stuff

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posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 03:44 PM
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After reading user-submitted content from another site, I can't help but wonder if the individual who wrote it has an even basic understanding of "equality." Not in the sense we typically hear it though, but equality as a mathematical concept. You know, some things are equal, others are not. A felony is greater (worse) than a misdemeanor. An "infraction" is less than a misdemeanor. 1 dollar is less than 20 dollars. Etc.

Below, you'll read this user's opinion on the WH's defense of a campaign era ad which charges Democrats with complicity in murders committed by illegal immigrants. This individual will argue that a "retalatiation" ad is needed, one focusing on Republican's complicity RE: murders committed with firearms. The argument itself is silly for numerous reasons, but most notable are the following:

1) Yes, if Democrats won't take border security seriously (as evidenced by their sanctuary anti-laws) then they are complicit with murders commited by illegals. Can they be legally charged? Of course not. Are they at least somewhat morally/ethically responsible? Damn right. They are protecting the ability for criminals to commit crimes, and share in the responsibility of those crimes. To be sure, Democrats are responsible for being weak in border security and illegal immigration.

2) No, Republicans (or anyone but the perpetrator) are not responsible for murders that happen to be committed with firearms. Here's why. Democrats are defending/enabling criminals to break the law whereas Republicans/pro-gunners are defending/enabling the protection of an unalienable Constitutional right. If a criminal happens to break the law and abuse our Constitutional right, and they kill another person (or several for that matter), clearly the criminal is responsible. No one is protecting, defending or making excuses for the behavior of obvious criminals - which has nothing to do with the massive body of law abiding +2A citizens


WARNING: Like many of their ramblings, this one is laced with profanity that adds little to the discussion. I did not censor this material out, but be advised it is present before clicking.
Additionally, as usual the poster's name and website information is removed. I have no desire to pick on this person or their community, and would like to solely focus on factual arguments and refuting of their position (not personal attacks).
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Illegal immigration is a crime. Owning a gun is a Constitutional right. The fact someone would even attempt to make this obviously ludicrous analogy is very telling, to me anyhow. That these people could even look at a crime vs. a Constitutional right on the same level is despicable.

Illegal immigration is not a protected right. It is a crime. Democrats are defending this, in and of itself.

Owning firearms is a protected right. It is not a crime. This is what Republicans/NRA are defending. The fact that a very small minority of citizens will abuse their 2A rights is entirely immaterial.

Worst part about it is that the proposed action (universal background checks, private seller access to NICS) is highly supported in the firearms community. It is nonsense ramblings, scare-tactics and blatantly false equivalencies that turns us off. Dishonest tactics will never help. With this, or anything else in politics. Scratch politics, it won't work/help with anything in life period.

For instance, when a non-gun owners tries to lecture us about something we know to be provably false, can you blame us for tuning him/her out? Don't try to tell me how "dangerous" my standard-capacity magazine is, when I know how quickly one can perform a speed reload. Don't tell me useless physical features of a gun make it more "deadly" - I know this is untrue, again I actually own several AR-15's (including a legal automatic one - via RDIAS). And don't try to tell me M855 green-tip is "armor piercing" when we both know damn well any rifle projectile will penetrate soft armor, and that green-tip will NOT penetrate Level III plates.
edit on 1/22/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 03:58 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns

Illegal immigration is a crime. Owning a gun is a Constitutional right. The fact someone would even attempt to make this obviously ludicrous analogy is very telling, to me anyhow. That these people could even look at a crime vs. a Constitutional right on the same level is despicable.

Illegal immigration is not a protected right. It is a crime. Democrats are defending this, in and of itself.

Owning firearms is a protected right. It is not a crime. This is what Republicans/NRA are defending. The fact that a very small minority of citizens will abuse their 2A rights is entirely immaterial.

Worst part about it is that the proposed action (universal background checks, private seller access to NICS) is highly supported in the firearms community. It is nonsense ramblings, scare-tactics and blatantly false equivalencies that turns us off. Dishonest tactics will never help. With this, or anything else in politics. Scratch politics, it won't work/help with anything in life period.



The left are idiots when it comes to this topic. You hit on many points accurately but I really want to highlight the true reason this is even an issue for the left which I highlighted in red in your above post.

The left IS complicit because the left is doing everything they can to ensure illegal immigrants support the democrat machine at any and all costs to the American public.

God I hate liberals. I genuinely do.

EDIT: I hate the liberals of today. Old school classic liberals I am ok with. The ones of today are absolute asinine, fascist, hypocrites.


edit on 22-1-2018 by Outlier13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 04:05 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Do you really think building an 18 billion wall will make any different?



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 04:06 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Your first paragraph pretty much summed it up. Lack of understanding and an anti-gun position are mutually inclusive. Hardly anyone who truly understands the issue remains anti-gun. Usually once people get informed, they become pro gun. The anti-gun extremists rely on people not knowing anything about guns besides what they see in TV and movies. Information is their enemy, unless it's cherry-picked or flat out doctored statistics.



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 04:07 PM
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If you saw the court rulings in California.

An illegal immigrant committed murder(California has the felony murder rule,also has the toughest gun laws on the books).

Let them walk.

They are complicit.



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 04:13 PM
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originally posted by: hoss53
a reply to: JBurns

Do you really think building an 18 billion wall will make any different?


Most of the women that sneak across with coyotes are raped on the way. It will stop that



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 04:17 PM
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Great OP. I'm continually amazed at how anti-gun nuts are willing and able to exist in such a reality distortion bubble. Even to the extent that they eventually arrive at some kind of hysterical nirvana where they are able to deceive themselves to the point of completely disregarding ACTUAL reality in favor of the distorted version.

The thing that boggles the mind is how completely they are willing to lie to themselves. Truly mind boggling.



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 04:23 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
If you saw the court rulings in California.

An illegal immigrant committed murder(California has the felony murder rule,also has the toughest gun laws on the books).

Let them walk.

They are complicit.


A non-illegal ran down and killed someone didn't they? how to reconcile that...with two statements?



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 04:24 PM
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originally posted by: hoss53
a reply to: JBurns

Do you really think building an 18 billion wall will make any different?


The estimated cost on the American public for harboring illegal immigrants each year is estimated to be $113 billion. If the completion of the wall decreases that by half then we are saving a fortune in the ongoing cost to combat illegal immigration.

Yes, of course, it will make a difference. The more difficult it is to enter into the US the less likely illegals are to come. It's pretty simple reasoning. No one thinks the completion of the wall is going to entirely stop illegal immigration but it will dramatically impact the number of illegals coming across the border.

We cannot continue to spend this level of money on people who enter our country illegally year after year.

Why is the left so opposed to doing things legally? Oh wait...never mind.



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 04:35 PM
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You've gone a long way to justify the logic of your argument here.

Here's to making it a bit more specific: choosing to let illegals in along with a few bad apples is the same as a gun show choosing to sell guns to people whether they're bad apples or not. Both lead to people dying.

If we never let those bad illegals in then those specific crimes would never have happened in the first place. In the same way if we didn't sell guns to mass murderers those specific crimes would have never happened either. Yet crimes will continue in either scenario except with different tools and means.

I don't agree with letting just anyone into the country because having two cultures clashing usually doesn't end up very well, but if they take all the measures to integrate into the home society then they should be allowed in. Any who are caught breaking our laws should be dealt justice in accordance to the law so I'm not a supporter of letting illegal immigrants in.

I don't agree with banning guns either, I believe it is the person and not the weapon which is exactly why I believe background checks should be mandatory because right now any psycho can easily get a gun at a show without any problem and a lot of the time cheaper than off the street. And be honest, who's going to go through the trouble of doing it illegally when the legal way is far simpler and easier?

It's almost like there is no in-between with some people.

ETA: I'm pretty sure I know the guy you're talking about from another forum, I saw that exact post too. I actually know the guy personally and I can guarantee you he's not an "anti-gunner" though some like to look at certain things in extremes.

edit on 1/22/2018 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 04:35 PM
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Grandpas boots, and Grandpas gun

Smith and Wesson 500 (50 cal Magnum)
edit on 22-1-2018 by visitedbythem because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to: visitedbythem
How? Are they going to quit trying to get to a better life?



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 04:49 PM
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originally posted by: hoss53
reply to: visitedbythem
How? Are they going to quit trying to get to a better life?

They wont be able to lead them across the desert and rape them on the way for one thing.
You better ask someone!



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 04:49 PM
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a reply to: Outlier13 So you don't think the 18 billion couldn't be better spent on caner research or p.t.s.d. help for our veterans?



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: hoss53

Of course not! We're all in defense mode because we're constantly under attack (at least according to the media) so we have to spend on defense defense DEFENSE! Screw the future, we're worried about the immediate threat! I know there is one because the media says so all the time.
edit on 1/22/2018 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: hoss53

If we spend 18 billion to save 113 billion, we will likely have quite a bit more to spend on the veteran affairs and p.t.s.d. help/research.
And before you ask- I am a vet.
And no , I will not subtract 18 from 113 for you.
Do the math yourself.
edit on 22-1-2018 by Hewhowaits because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 05:04 PM
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originally posted by: hoss53
a reply to: Outlier13 So you don't think the 18 billion couldn't be better spent on caner research or p.t.s.d. help for our veterans?



The idea is that a one-time $18 Billion investment will free up a goodly chunk of the $110 Billion per year this country wastes on dealing with illegal aliens. Then that freed up chunk can actually be used in any other budget areas that may need it.



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 05:04 PM
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originally posted by: visitedbythem
Grandpas boots, and Grandpas gun

Smith and Wesson 500 (50 cal Magnum)


Does your grandpa hunt mastodons?



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 05:06 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: hoss53
a reply to: Outlier13 So you don't think the 18 billion couldn't be better spent on caner research or p.t.s.d. help for our veterans?



The idea is that a one-time $18 Billion investment will free up a goodly chunk of the $110 Billion per year this country wastes on dealing with illegal aliens. Then that freed up chunk can actually be used in any other budget areas that may need it.


They are well aware of that. They just don't have any other angle to play. What are they gonna do, tell us the truth? That they're worried about all those future Dem voters they're gonna lose?



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 05:10 PM
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a reply to: face23785

No, but then the GOP isn't being exactly forthright, either. They could be honest and tell the People that the reason the GOP lawmakers haven't done jack squat about illegal aliens over the past 20 years is that their megadonors in the big agriculture, retail and office (maintenace and cleaning), and food service industries don't want to see their dirt cheap labor shipped back to where they belong South of the border.

Unfortunately, we're stuck with a pair of parties that both feed from the same establishment trough where meaningful border controls and restrictive immigration policies are concerned, so we actual Americans are the ones losing here.



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