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Can you prove evolution wrong? -- Part 2

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posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 01:29 PM
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This is continuing a thread made my Colin42 from 2011

The thread reached 500 pages today... And thus Part 2 was needed

said member stated...


I would like to pose a scenario.

Let's put all the evidence of evolution to one side for a spell. That Darwin and all that followed were mistaken as some maintain.

I would like the pro Evolution group (that includes me) to take a back seat and give the anti evolution group a chance to explain how life on this planet is the way it is now.

I am not asking how life started just an explanation of the diversity of life from the deep dark depths of the oceans to the blue skies above and pole to pole.

I would like an explanation of the fossil records but it is not essential.

As I say I would like the pro evolution group to resist comments for a while. My guess is there will be few takers but I may be suprised.


I watch all these threads so i might as well help continue the debate

Play nice everyone

PART 1




posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 01:43 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 01:45 PM
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You're doing God's work son.

Oh wait...

Jest aside, kudos for keeping the thread alive


I have a hard time believing in spontaneous anything. But I do believe in evolution, a gradually genetic adaption over long time periods in relation to surrounding environment.

As far as how life got here, I like to think that wherever and whatever consciousness/self awareness came from, "planted" the recipe for evolution to take place.

A hidden hand, kick starting life to create in the universe. Don't know how. Don't have a god. This is just the way i think and feel about how it started in a nutshell.




posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 01:52 PM
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a reply to: BestinShow

I believe its the way ATS is setup. This new thread will now replace the original thread. The only problem is that colin42 will not receive any new flags for this extension of his thread



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 01:57 PM
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I have two questions for Creationists:

#1 Why do whales have remnants of hind limbs in their body?

#2 Why did God create Adam with nipples?



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 02:15 PM
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Spark plugs in rocks, axe handles old enough that the wood is turning to stone, fossilized bacteria to advance to fit in evolutionary chain. Footprints in ancient rock of modern feet. Dino's living in some of our deep lakes today; fish in hundreds of thousands year old records being caught alive. Fine but small vase of great art work, being found in coal. Clay figure of a woman found in a clay layer of a deep well being drilled, (Seen this one myself).
Artifacts on the moon and Mars which relate to earth.
Loomed material cloth to old to fit current timeline of mans development. Steel far more advance then to fit current timeline of discovery.
Ural Mountains full of ancient manufacturing artifacts.
Many times man regressed and then advanced, and in those regressions lived like cave men. You add another species of a man like humanoid that was killed off and absorbed into man as we know them . . .bingo . . .you have cave dwellers, hunter gatherers, and the like. The farther from each civilization you go you loose techniques in stone, steel and agriculture, as some go here and there to start their communities, which gives you a vast variety of civilization oddities. Take away or add the unique variety of climates and resources all over the earth you will vary the level to knowledge. The less the need, the less innovation.

What ever the case knowledge didn't start here but it was lost and found many times over the thousands of years the earth has been. So I conclude modern man didn't start here either. To me the evidence is there to show the earth has been recycled many times over . . . . The Mayans may have been right we have went from a beginning period to high civilization to destruction at least six times before. The reason archeology is so mixed we are trying to make a single timeline from several past more ancient time lines.


a reply to: Akragon



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 02:26 PM
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originally posted by: wildespace
I have two questions for Creationists:

#1 Why do whales have remnants of hind limbs in their body?

#2 Why did God create Adam with nipples?


Time to shock you, Boys:

www.scientificamerican.com...


Strange but True: Males Can Lactate


www.theguardian.com...


While the women hunt, the men look after the babies - even letting them suck their nipples. Joanna Moorhead asks anthropologist Barry Hewlett why the Aka are such unusual parents


I think way back men used to pacify the infants when required for various reasons. Nipples in men serve a social purpose. They had a use.

A baby is going to be quite happy and not notice too much, as long as it isn't feeding time and just comfort time, and the bonding this provided was anthropologically useful to humans and aided their success as a species. In our refined era this seems so strange, but to tribal people there was no such hang ups or gender specific roles. Surviving can't afford to be spoilt like that and why is it a debasement of masculinity; must needs and all that? I bet women used to get sexual pleasure from stimulating and being comforted by male nipples as much as men do. It is that bonding thing. This is more of a taboo in our era, but for how long? I bet there are women who like doing this. In lesbian sexuality it is all too obvious that women, too, get great pleasure from this; it brings bonding in a relationship even for women to do this. It is not all as black and white as we would believe it to be gender wise. Nature is very fluid that way. Humans are very fluid that way, to. That is how we have been so amazing a species in terms of survival and evolution.

I am a Christian, but I am scientist, too. Evolution is the process the Elohim have used to develop on a theme. All is coded in the DNA to respond to the stimulus of background radiation and chemical variation. Radiation and tumours are a part of evolution. Nature never claimed to be kind. We are exposed to slightly too much radiation on the earth that causes constant mutation; some work and some do not. The DNA is "damaged" continually through the generations. This, alongside the ever changing environment forces adaptation and even extinction sometimes when adaptation stops hapening and the environment too much of a survival challenge.

www.technologyreview.com...
(have to subscribe to read that one)

science.howstuffworks.com...


As mentioned in the previous section, many things can cause a DNA mutation, including: X-rays Cosmic rays Nuclear radiation Random chemical reactions in the cell Therefore, mutations are fairly common. Mutations happen at a steady rate in any population, but the location and type of every mutation is completely random. According to Carl Sagan in "The Dragons of Eden":



Only about one nucleotide pair in a thousand is randomly changed every 200,000 years. Even so, in a population of 10,000 individuals, every possible nucleotide substitution will have been "tried out" on about 50 occasions in the course of a million years, which is a short span of time in relation to the evolution of species. Much of the variation created in this way will be disadvantageous to the organism and will be selected against in the population. When a rare variant sequence is advantageous, however, it will be rapidly propagated by natural selection. Consequently, it can be expected that in any given species the functions of most genes will have been optimized by random point mutation and selection.


YHVH made the DNA to suit the climate of the earth, so that it would do its thing to survive. The Creator is perfect, but His creatures are not. They constantly change. Perhaps when they stop changing it is time up. How do we know that we are not still changing? i think we are. In a million years time, if we were successful enough to live that long (and if the earth can stay steady enough for that long a period) we will look different according to our development.

Radiation is a tool of evolution.

The whale may well have evolved from a land mammal as may dolphins. Remember there were some mighty big creatures walking the land all that time ago. There are many species that went from the land back to the sea because it worked. The mutations helped certain members of the species to be better at surviving and gave them a compettitve edge with breedingand providing. It is all common sense.

It is mind blowing and a miracle in itself to behold the process of evolution. It takes nothing away from theories of a Creator and does not diminish Christianity to be a scientist and an evolutionist. The Creation account is a great allegory and it follows a logical process of the earth's development out of swirling gases in front of the hearth of the Sun.


edit on 21-1-2018 by Revolution9 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 02:27 PM
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Where are all the intermediate stage things? The not quite elephants, the not quite lions etc. Where are the things becoming other things? Why have crocs pretty much remained as they are for so long?

I actually believe in evolution. I just don’t think we understand it.
edit on 21-1-2018 by ARM1968 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 02:43 PM
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originally posted by: wildespace
I have two questions for Creationists:

#1 Why do whales have remnants of hind limbs in their body?

#2 Why did God create Adam with nipples?


and you would love to believe that life is a coincident, no one can prove it, not even your dead Darwin, try harder, try creating something from nothing and come back to me and the others, its impossible.



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 03:04 PM
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Lol, Evolution is not real.

Darwin made that S*** up to justify his being on the expedition and wanted a name for himself.

People really need to learn history.



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 03:50 PM
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The very first logical question should be, how does biological life"Spring" up, from a hot sterile rock? If one looks at life today we find ourselves in a world of "Inspirations". One inspiration, then from that, another inspiration, so on so, and so on. The inspirations are not limited to biological life forms, but also to technology. Making things better than they were, or where they did not exist prior. I'm inspired, to share my thoughts.

How did life begin on this, or any other planet? Yes, I know what the controlled science departments puts out. Magic goo came together and formed the basis of life. They are half correct, but I suspect that Magic was the magic of "Inspiration". Something that cant be held or even proven to exist. But on the other hand, can be seen..If you are unlucky enough. Humor intended......

Some try to muddy the research waters with the division between Creationists and evolutionists. They tell you, IT MUST BE ONE, OR THE OTHER. In fact, I strongly suspect, it was both, and it depends on the timelines. Remember, Earth has been here for at least 4.5 to 5 billion years. And because of our very active atmosphere, and planet, most all of the previous intelligent inhabiten's "foot prints" would have been long gone.

First, it would have been "Evolution". The basics life forms were inspired via DNA coding and a little push where it was needed. After the creation of soil, which probably took a billion years itself, a very biological active substance, came those that could walk on it. And of those life forms, some became intelligent, via, inspiration. They, went on to "Create" many other life forms via DNA manipulation.

For those who believe Lord God to be singular, you may want to consider the following "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:" US? It relates to genetic tampering. And genetic tampering translates to "Creating", and in this case, life forms. To know good and evil creations. To know not the fruit of the tree of life, that's all of us. But to know how, to genetically create.

So, Lord God, who evolved, with inspiration, created the Sons of God, with inspiration, who created the Sons of Man, with, inspiration......

So, here we all are in the same boat, fighting each other as to who is right, and that too, I suppose, is with, inspiration. Just depends on where your personal inspiration, comes from...........



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 04:05 PM
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originally posted by: SR1TX
Lol, Evolution is not real.

Darwin made that S*** up to justify his being on the expedition and wanted a name for himself.

People really need to learn history.


....Is this some kind of a joke, or a parody perhaps? You can't really believe that.



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 04:33 PM
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All the people who are so sure a God did it - NOT ONE has got there god to Show humans he can .
So untill your god does even ONE thing that shows he is real then this debate it pointless because wile a god may exist
all the power in the universe means NOTHING if he does not use it .

God saved you from being a drunk ? or drug addict ? Tell me what makes you so important god would let baby's who never even get to draw there first breath did and yet save you ?
That is the biggest thing to me it tells me that people are very self centered so much that A god would pick them out of billions to help change or ask a favor .

take about delusions of being so much better O look at the sinner I am so much better what a joke .
God wills ( if that is you or a dead baby then God wills is a sick JOKE .



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 04:48 PM
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a reply to: midnightstarYou are so absolutely correct in questioning, God, or the concept of God. Throughout history mankind has been enslaved to one god (gods) or another. If you were to ask me about the validity of for instance, Lord God of the Bible, which by the way, you didn't, I would say, He (Tribal King) was a prehistoric, intelligent species that was given the knowledge of DNA manipulation to further the cause of the Divine Creator that isn't of flesh and Blood. The problem arose when this tribal god of the old testament saw that his creations no longer saw him as a God, but a god. His first born, Sons of god, decided to practice freedom of choice, and for that a great war broke out. those uppity slaves dare try to be gods themselves (Ancient Greek and Roma gods).

It all depends on how you view, who and what you are, and what you reflect to this world. Don't wear the "They Live" glasses and look at everyone else, simply, look in the mirror. What do you see........



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 04:55 PM
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originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: SR1TX
Lol, Evolution is not real.

Darwin made that S*** up to justify his being on the expedition and wanted a name for himself.

People really need to learn history.


....Is this some kind of a joke, or a parody perhaps? You can't really believe that.


Show me some proof it's real.

Until then, Darwin was a lunatic, likely suffering from some sort of degenerative brain disorder at the time.



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 04:56 PM
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originally posted by: midnightstar
All the people who are so sure a God did it - NOT ONE has got there god to Show humans he can .
So untill your god does even ONE thing that shows he is real then this debate it pointless because wile a god may exist
all the power in the universe means NOTHING if he does not use it .

God saved you from being a drunk ? or drug addict ? Tell me what makes you so important god would let baby's who never even get to draw there first breath did and yet save you ?
That is the biggest thing to me it tells me that people are very self centered so much that A god would pick them out of billions to help change or ask a favor .

take about delusions of being so much better O look at the sinner I am so much better what a joke .
God wills ( if that is you or a dead baby then God wills is a sick JOKE .


The proof is the Fibonacci sequence.



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: Akragon




posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 05:39 PM
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Evolution is a theory, the op question is stupid
The onus is on science to prove evolution with repetable, observable and testable works


And I love how the " how life started" issue is just dismissed
The question should be
Can science prove evolution, scientifically?

If people understood science, that would be the logical question
edit on 21-1-2018 by Raggedyman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 05:54 PM
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originally posted by: SR1TX

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: SR1TX
Lol, Evolution is not real.

Darwin made that S*** up to justify his being on the expedition and wanted a name for himself.

People really need to learn history.


....Is this some kind of a joke, or a parody perhaps? You can't really believe that.


Show me some proof it's real.

Until then, Darwin was a lunatic, likely suffering from some sort of degenerative brain disorder at the time.


.......
Ah. A lunatic? Pot, kettle, black. What fun.
Let's have a few facts here, shall we? First things first the HMS Beagle expedition lasted from 1831 to 1836. It was primarily a mapping mission, with geological offshoots for Darwin. He made a lot of notes all the way through. After returning to the UK he published his results on geology and zoology - nothing on evolution.
He then spent the next 20 years working on the results of his observations. The Origin of the Species was published in 1859.
That's 23 years after he returned from his trip. Let's repeat that - 23 years.
And his work is fully supported by, you know, actual science. Case closed.



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 05:55 PM
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can evolutionists tell me where or how consciousness evolved, or why only one species seemed to have developed this. why aren't there more like us, why don't we have a natural predator, why don't we have a mating season for reproduction like every species known to man.




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