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The Government shutdown

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posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 12:01 AM
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a reply to: Scrubdog

What you omit is US. We don't want it. The biggest reason is it's never enough. NEVER. Every compromise made empowers you and your ilk to push for more and more until it is beyond outrageous.

That's exactly how we got into this mess.

If your read the OP, I hold the Republicans as much to blame as you guys.

The shutdown is nothing. Zero.

The fight is everything. Personally, any compromise offered by your snakes is suspect from the getgo.

The fight has just started. Bring it....




posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 12:04 AM
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So, since this topic was opened, let's look at a few things...

I'll start with the military, because I'm an Army Brat:

Source: Military Times


Although active duty troops and Guard and Reservists on active duty orders are expected to show-up for work during a shutdown, they will not get paid unless Congress passes a separate piece of legislation to do so. Such a bill was awaiting action from the House and Senate Saturday.

Without that legislation, known as the Pay Our Military Act, troops will receive partial paychecks Feb. 1 only for days worked prior to Jan. 20.


Military pay is not very high, and this will put a huge strain on families. Some things - retiree pay and survivor benefits and group life insurance payments - will not be affected since their funds come from other sources. Disability pay and GI benefits are currently safe as well.

National Guard and Reservists will have drill days canceled, and those currently on drill will probably be sent home.

Biggest impact will be for families of troops killed in action, who will not receive the Pentagon's $100,000 death gratuity that allows them to ship the deceased to the cemetery of choice and pays for the military funeral.

Other changes are discussed in the Military Times article

If the shutdown extends for a month, there's the possibility that the military may be very heavily impacted. In 2013, VA officials warned that if the closure extended beyond several weeks, there might be delays or problems getting checks to disabled military veterans and others.

There are efforts from both Republicans and Democrats to change this



n the Senate, Sen. Jack Reed, a Rhode Island Democrat and the ranking member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, put in a bill called the "Pay Our Military Act" to allow service members to continue to receive paychecks and related compensation over the course of the shutdown.

"This bill would make sure that all active-duty, reservists, National Guard troops, as well as any civilians and contractors working in support of those forces can do their jobs and receive their paychecks," Reed said in a statement.

On the House side, Rep. Martha McSally, an Arizona Republican, also introduced legislation that would continue to pay the military and those in the Department of Homeland Security performing national security duties. Her bill would also prohibit members of Congress from receiving a paycheck during the shutdown.

Source


Sadly, the congresscritters' pay will be continued no matter how long the shutdown lasts. Not every legislator is fond of this idea... Some are donating their pay to charity during this time



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 12:09 AM
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originally posted by: Scrubdog
...
Trump agreed that he was "going to sign the bipartisan agreement arranged by Graham-Durbin who crafted a compromise that gave Trump damn near all he wanted on border security and the military. Trump had already agreed that these people brought over as children, through no fault of theirs were - in Trump's own words "Americans who need protection."

Graham and Durbin took the agreement in to Trump. Trump's chief of staff Kelly and idiot uneducated racist Steve Miller had told Trump that Trump's base won't like caving on DACA and thus DACA shouldn't be part of the deal. Trump, throws out his promise, talks about #holes, thoroughly infuriates Graham and several other Repubicans who only agreed to vote for an extension, not a budget.


I was reading other sources and they pretty much point this out... that more than once they've had bipartisan agreements that broadly achieved what Trump said he wanted... and that Trump then rejected the plan anyway.



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 12:44 AM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Scrubdog

What you omit is US. We don't want it.

All 30% of you....good luck.



The biggest reason is it's never enough. NEVER. Every compromise made empowers you and your ilk to push for more and more until it is beyond outrageous.

Why is it you and your ilk conflate every comment made against Trump and the Republican congress is an automatic admission of democratic party affiliation....




That's exactly how we got into this mess.

No, you got into this mess by dogma party affiliation that can't accomplish a damned thing.




If your read the OP, I hold the Republicans as much to blame as you guys.


What guys?



Personally, any compromise offered by your snakes


Whose snakes?



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 12:52 AM
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a reply to: alphabetaone


You ask many questions. Figure it out for yourself. Plenty of links, articles, posts, etc. that cover the subject.



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 02:24 AM
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originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: nwtrucker
It was quite obvious why the government put on a show by shutting down. They are keeping eyes away from the genocide the Turks are about to attempt in Afrin Canton of Kurdish Controlled Syria. I am documenting it to my best, but as is typical, people will ignore it for theater instead, just like Mosul, Aleppo, Raqqa, etc.. etc..
It's the media who is responsible for us hearing about these things...They are 24/7 bashing Trump...They have no time nor interest in telling us about anything else...



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 02:27 AM
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originally posted by: Iscool

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: nwtrucker
It was quite obvious why the government put on a show by shutting down. They are keeping eyes away from the genocide the Turks are about to attempt in Afrin Canton of Kurdish Controlled Syria. I am documenting it to my best, but as is typical, people will ignore it for theater instead, just like Mosul, Aleppo, Raqqa, etc.. etc..
It's the media who is responsible for us hearing about these things...They are 24/7 bashing Trump...They have no time nor interest in telling us about anything else...






Nope that is incorrect, the media are the propaganda arm of government, they work together not against each other, it's obvious once you put 2 and 2 together.



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 08:13 AM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Iscool

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: nwtrucker
It was quite obvious why the government put on a show by shutting down. They are keeping eyes away from the genocide the Turks are about to attempt in Afrin Canton of Kurdish Controlled Syria. I am documenting it to my best, but as is typical, people will ignore it for theater instead, just like Mosul, Aleppo, Raqqa, etc.. etc..
It's the media who is responsible for us hearing about these things...They are 24/7 bashing Trump...They have no time nor interest in telling us about anything else...






Nope that is incorrect, the media are the propaganda arm of government, they work together not against each other, it's obvious once you put 2 and 2 together.


Sorry, but that's pretty hard to think with. While the gov't has some control over media, that same media has control over the gov't, as well. Polls, exposing specific individuals, etc..

Far more control over the media by advertisers who are the lifeblood of that media than gov't. Oh sure, a deep state exposure of some individual in media who the spooks have the goods on isn't impossible, but then it isn't really the generality of 'the gov't', it becomes specific individuals with access to that 'leverage'.

Still, even that seems a stretch in that all the media would have to be blackmailed/threatened ino cooperation. A bit tougher task. Yes?

Far easier with the cash supplied to all via advertisers, yes?



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 10:58 AM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

The advertisers of media control government. These are companies from banking/finance industries, pharmaceutical/healthcare/health insurance industries & the military industrial complex. This is evident by the advertising on MSM. This in conjunction with corrupt career politicians forms the deep state/shadow government. Obama repealed the Smith Mundt Act in 2013, reallowing the use of government propaganda domestically on US citizens. We've been under facism (corporations controlling government) since 1913, when the Federal Reserve was established. Every economic downturn & war/conflict the US has been in since 1913 was caused by the Federal Reserve. A fed member named Prescott Bush even helped fund Hitler's rise to power. Here are some of the corrupt ties with media & government from Obama's administration.

1) ABC News executive producer Ian Cameron is married to Susan Rice, Obama's National Security Adviser.
2) CBS President David Rhodes is the brother of Ben Rhodes, Obama’s Deputy National Security Adviser for Strategic Communications.
3) ABC News correspondent Claire Shipman is married to former Obama Whitehouse Press Secretary Jay Carney.
4) ABC News and Univision reporter Matthew Jaffe is married to Katie Hogan, Obama’s Deputy Press Secretary.
5) ABC President Ben Sherwood is the brother of Obama’s Special Adviser Elizabeth Sherwood.
6) CNN President Virginia Moseley is married to former Hillary Clinton’s Deputy Secretary Tom Nides.

edit on 21-1-2018 by JBIZZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 11:03 AM
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a reply to: JBIZZ

No argument from me.

I'm trying to keep it simple as so much of these 'truths' end up a deflection from the basic purpose...results.

I can't speak for anyone other than myself on this, but I couldn't care less who is President, what party is in 'control', who the manipulators are or their agendas.

We do have power and all the information can cloud that purpose.

Mine is a safe, secure and prosperous nation. My support goes to those that produce results. I know of no other realistic staring point. JMO, though.



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 11:27 AM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

Imo, its simple, don't vote for career politicians. If one keeps voting for career politicians, nothing will change for the better. Political office is a service, not a career.



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 11:37 AM
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originally posted by: JBIZZ
a reply to: nwtrucker

Imo, its simple, don't vote for career politicians. If one keeps voting for career politicians, nothing will change for the better. Political office is a service, not a career.


Amen!



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 02:01 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: alphabetaone


You ask many questions.

Interesting. I asked you 2 questions. Seems the upper bounds of your particular integer ceiling could be land-based.



Figure it out for yourself.

No. I want you to answer, a non-interactive link is meaningless and doesn't foster healthy debate.



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 02:05 PM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Iscool

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: nwtrucker
It was quite obvious why the government put on a show by shutting down. They are keeping eyes away from the genocide the Turks are about to attempt in Afrin Canton of Kurdish Controlled Syria. I am documenting it to my best, but as is typical, people will ignore it for theater instead, just like Mosul, Aleppo, Raqqa, etc.. etc..
It's the media who is responsible for us hearing about these things...They are 24/7 bashing Trump...They have no time nor interest in telling us about anything else...

Nope that is incorrect, the media are the propaganda arm of government, they work together not against each other, it's obvious once you put 2 and 2 together.


If you look at the front page of the Democrats primary propaganda arm, which is CNN.com, anytime before a budget agreement is reached, its obvious that Democrats want the shutdown to continue.
edit on 1/21/2018 by carewemust because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 02:33 PM
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originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: alphabetaone


You ask many questions.

Interesting. I asked you 2 questions. Seems the upper bounds of your particular integer ceiling could be land-based.



Figure it out for yourself.

No. I want you to answer, a non-interactive link is meaningless and doesn't foster healthy debate.



I'd enjoy honest debate and even prefer casual conversation. However, I've been on ATS long enough to discern the difference between the above and 'coy', patronizing posts. Simply put, if you want to place yourself in some '101' level by asking questions that you very well know the answer to and the disagreements connected to them, I'm not playing.

If you've followed the thread, I've made my position quite clear. I have no real problem with you not agreeing-couldn't care less- but I'd rather not play that level of game. It's boring, goes no where and a waste of time.

If you have a specific disagreement with my view, articulate them, by all means.

P.S. I totally agree on using 'Links' as a debate point. Useless very specific data, previously not known is contained in it. Otherwise, it's using similar views as the poster which is just as subjective as the poser's which and resolves nothing.
edit on 21-1-2018 by nwtrucker because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

All I can take away from this is that protecting the interests of illegals is more important than keeping our government working for our citizens.

I do blame Democrats.

Republicans may be what they are but they arent the ones pushing this hard for people that arent their constituents. If it came down to it, apparently, Democrats have their first loyalty to cheap labor for corporate profits.

I am not with it. If they cant keep a working government going then I want them out.



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 02:43 PM
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a reply to: tadaman

I cannot and will not absolve Republican support of cheap labor via corporate interest either.



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 04:48 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker

If you have a specific disagreement with my view, articulate them, by all means.



I did, but somehow it got lost From your OP here



IMO. those that diss Trump are playing as advocates for TPTB

A manufactured false equivalence.

and...



Trump is our champion

No, he's your champion, and only about 30% of the overall population....Trump if you were to get into his mind, is no one's champion but Trumps (oh and Eric and D Jr.)

Your champion is busy blaming the Democrats what happened to the following:
-Draining the swamp? - He created more quagmire
-The big beautiful wall that Mexico was going to pay for - He said no Wall, no deal....Taxpayers paying for something they don't want
Especially given the fact that days earlier he said "Bring me something, anything I'll sign it. I'll take the heat", now wants everyone but himself, his failures to take the heat?
-The great deal maker?
- The budget that SHOULD have been done on time in the first place
- CHiP funding 120 days ago instead of using it as leverage forcing a shutdown intentionally because they knew they couldnt bring a budgetary deal to the table
- Governance and Leading by example, not by tweet


I would think, that if you truly wanted honest debate, you would never use terms like "you and your ilk", that firmly (and disingenuously) exmpts yourself from errata AND to have an honest debate, there needs to exist a shared sense of reality which there is not. Look at tadaman's post above yours, he is buying into the "illegal immigrant" narrative...when you were 2 or 5 or 10 years old, do you think you had the knowledge OR wearwithal to challenge your parents about whether or not they were breaking immigration rules should they have decided to relocate to a welcoming country? Be honest with yourself and with us.... these were not "illegal immigrants", their parents were as were YOUR and MINE and everyone elses heritage...I wonder what their "merits" were other than oppression...the shared sense of reality needs to be that they were given a contract, by the then US Government a contract which DJT has now breached simply because "Obama did it"....dont you see how effin stupid that is/was to do?

I hope yellowstone doesn't decide to erupt with a VEI 6 or higher anytime soon....let's see how well your merit based system works then when no one wants you.



posted on Jan, 21 2018 @ 06:26 PM
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a reply to: alphabetaone

Reality. Hmmm. Your 30%? All I see is a desperate grasping on a very questionable statistic.

You and your ilk stands as a descriptive label for those that place these smaller issue above the nation. You already know that. I've already-multiple times- laid blame on both parties for this situation regarding immigration and DACA, specifically.

I have zero trust of any comment such as "I'll sign anything and take the heat". Not the Democrats attending-S**t Hole apparently never happened- not the MSM and certainly not without context.

Your party has no mandate, no platform, no leadership and hangs it's hat on Russia. I care not one whit what happens to those 'innocents' compared with following the law of the land that the left negate with false compassion.

The only reason there'd be 'compromise' on the wall by the left would be the perception they couldn't stop it anyways.

Trump has my/our trust. Who do you people have? Zero.

However, continue, hit on Trump, day by day, progress is made, 'wins' accrued.

I look forward to 2018 elections....



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