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Beirut blast kills al-Hariri

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posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by dh
Sure - where are the Geiger counter readings checking out the residue from these low-yield devices at any of these events
See the Omagh bombing - pretty big and lethal car bomb - no crater


So you're saying that any of these attacks, including ones that happened in 3rd world countries not at war with any major powers, were micronuke attacks? Just for the record because, you know, it puts your other claims in perspective if the answer is yes.




posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by dh
See the Omagh bombing - pretty big and lethal car bomb - no crater


So your argument is based on one event, from which you hope to extrapolate the effects of any car bomb on any road? Not very convincing.



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 05:33 PM
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THE Zionists who TOTALLY control U.S wants to make it look like Syria so U.S. can have an excuse to attack Syria. jews went into Syria back in 83 not to look and killed PLO as they want world to believe but they went in so thier soilders can practice the war trainning, for thier future war against the Palastinian People. (Which jews started Sept 28, 2000) This little peace they now have started will not last long, soon jews will blow up a bomb or a series of bombs, or even kill one of thier important leader/leaders and say it was HAMAS or some Palastinian group and then jews will continue with thier plan of pushing palastinians out of Palistine into some other nation/ or they will just outright EXTERMINATE them.



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 05:36 PM
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HERE look at them with thier giger readers look at picture on the top right www.vialls.com...



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 05:37 PM
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Wait, why are you changing the subject? We were so happily absorbed in the discussion about the credibility of your source:


Originally posted by SiberianTiger
Here are some past miniNuke blasts Part 1. homepage.ntlworld.com... Part 2. www.vialls.com... Part 3. www.vialls.com... Part 4. www.vialls.com... Part 5. www.vialls.com...

[edit on 15-2-2005 by SiberianTiger]





posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 05:39 PM
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I can't tell that they are using geiger counters, much less what the geiger counters supposedly read. What good is that?



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 05:39 PM
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I NEVER CHANGE SUBJECT, TO AVIOD ANYTHING, I posted that because I thought he posted his thing before reading what I posted, so what is it you want to talk about ?



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 05:45 PM
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Here, I'll repeat it for you:


Originally posted by HeirToBokassa
From your laughable source:

The only way any explosive can cause a crater is if it is first dropped from an aircraft and penetrates sub-surface before exploding, or if it is physically positioned sub-surface in advance.

This is complete bs as is seen from the links I posted as well as others found from doing a search on ["car bomb" crater].



dh

posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 06:46 PM
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First rule - never ever respond to a boobs and bum generator
They'll always try to feed you false argument
particularly when they give you a shapeshifter response like those above

[edit on 15-2-2005 by dh]



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by dh
First rule - never ever respond to a boobs and bum generator
They'll always try to feed you false argument
particularly when they give you a shapeshifter response like those above

[edit on 15-2-2005 by dh]


Um, okay... I'm not sure how that answers my questions:

So you're saying that any of these attacks, including ones that happened in 3rd world countries not at war with any major powers, were micronuke attacks? Just for the record because, you know, it puts your other claims in perspective if the answer is yes.

So your argument is based on one event, from which you hope to extrapolate the effects of any car bomb on any road? Not very convincing.



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 07:22 PM
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This has all the hallmarks of the Israeli Mossad's workings. They are trying to get Lebanon at loggerheads with Syria. This could be with the express consent of the CIA or without their knowledge as they have done this numerous times before.

The following can be the number of reasons for this act.

1) Get the arab world to attack each other and build mistrust.
2) Weaken the arab solidarity within thereby securing the existence for the state of Israel
3) Precursor to creating a Palestinian state with Israel's more tactile enemies weakend.

On the other hand, one major questions has to be answered on blaming Syria,

1) Hariri has always been against the Syrian presence of troops in Lebanon. It is a well accepted fact even by Syria, that this has been his viewpoint for decades. Syria has never acted then. So what is new? Why now must Syria do this? Especially since he was out of office?

One can point the finger at Israel for the following number of reasons.

1) Israel wants Syria out of Lebanon to create a secure buffer zone for itself.

2) Syrian Intelligence lacks the logical expertise to carry out such an act vis-a-vis Israel's expertise in carrying out assasinations in enemy or potential enemy territory wherever in the world (be it Palestine, Yemen, Iraq, Pakistan, Lebanon or even New Zealand).

3) Previously carried out acts (like the Raid on Entebe (Angola), and recently intelligentsia reports that Mossad had used Yemenite Jews to successfully infiltrate and support the 9/11 terrorists (especially Mohammed Atta, the principle accused) is more proof of their connivance.

4) All the above acts and "war on terrorism" against muslims, represents the hallmarks of creating a zionist friendly secular new world order.



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 08:47 PM
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Thank You For explaining it to them.



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by aryaputhra
On the other hand, one major questions has to be answered on blaming Syria,

1) Hariri has always been against the Syrian presence of troops in Lebanon. It is a well accepted fact even by Syria, that this has been his viewpoint for decades. Syria has never acted then. So what is new? Why now must Syria do this? Especially since he was out of office?


That question does not diminish the Syrian connection. The question could be reversed: why would Israel wait so long to murder Hariri and blame it on Syria? The Syrian connection withstands that question easily.

Also:


The timing of his murder is significant, disturbingly so. Syrian control over Lebanon will be the biggest issue in the Lebanese elections due in April and May, and Damascus has made no secret of its determination to engineer victory for the pro-Syria lobby led by Mr Hariri’s rival, President Emile Lahoud. Mr Hariri’s departure from office last autumn was prompted by a bitter dispute over changes to the Lebanese Constitution, engineered by Syria, to give the President an extra three years in office. The Lahoud camp in turn accused Mr Hariri of instigating last September’s resolution in the Security Council, jointly sponsored by France and the United States, demanding that Syria withdraw its 14,000 troops, end its support for the Hezbollah militias and leave Lebanon alone.
www.timesonline.co.uk...


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



1) Israel wants Syria out of Lebanon to create a secure buffer zone for itself.


Syria wants to remain in Lebanon and will resort to terrorism to do so.


2) Syrian Intelligence lacks the logical expertise to carry out such an act vis-a-vis Israel's expertise in carrying out assasinations in enemy or potential enemy territory wherever in the world


Syria has a huge presence in Lebanon, both with soldiers as a conventional projection of power as well as connections to terrorist groups. This is common knowledge.


support the 9/11 terrorists (especially Mohammed Atta, the principle accused) is more proof of their connivance.


This has been debunked many times in other threads.


4) All the above acts and "war on terrorism" against muslims, represents the hallmarks of creating a zionist friendly secular new world order.


The voices of the Lebanese people are being heard. They want the Syrian boot removed from their throats and will no longer tolerate the use of the "Zionist entity" as an excuse for the foreign control of their country.


Mr Hariri was assassinated as he returned from taking part in a heated parliamentary debate on the law governing the forthcoming elections. The symbolism will have been lost on no one. The intent was to strike terror into any Lebanese politician thinking of campaigning on a “Syria out” ticket. If this was the message, Damascus reinforced it yesterday. Syria called the murder “a criminal, ugly act” yet pointedly condemned “those who are sowing sedition in Lebanon” and exhorted the Lebanese to “reject any internal sedition or outside interference”. The “interference” Syria objects to, Lebanese are aware, is the increasing international pressure on it to match Israel’s withdrawal from Lebanon — a withdrawal that removed Syria ’s only excuse for being there.
www.timesonline.co.uk...


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 01:41 AM
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Originally posted by SiberianTiger
this article he wrote talks about the Mossad nuking the U.S. barraks in Lebonon back in 83 look at the picture to the top right notice them with thier Geiger Readers. www.joevialls.co.uk...

[edit on 15-2-2005 by SiberianTiger]

[edit on 15-2-2005 by SiberianTiger]


Wow, I thought that in the 21st Century type of primitive, backward scape-goating phenomena would cease to exist. That article is plainly a waste of hardrive space and bandwidth.
Israel's greatest and sometimes ONLY ally is the US. Without the US, Israel would be high and dry. Israel was highly reliant on the US during the Lebanese war and therefore had no interest in bombing them.
Of course the ZIONISTS are always to blame. Pakistan newspapers blamed the TSUNAMI on a joint Israeli-Indian nuke test in the waters of the Indian Gulf, Palestinians blamed Israel for putting poison in sweets and then give them to children and the Saudi government paper blamed Israel for using the blood of Palestinian children to make holiday pasteries.
And you know what there are many IDIOTS that seem to believe this.

SO why not believe that Israel used a micronuke to kill Hariri?

I mean after all Hariri planned on abandoning Syria, line up with the US and if elected again make peace with Israel. That would leave the Syrians on there own to deal with Israel in a one-on-one peace settlement in which they probably not get the entire Golan heights as they want.
The Arab world and their brown-nosing oil hungry allies concoct idiodic theories all the time where Israel is always behind every bad thing that happens (e.g. 9/11, bally bombing, the Tsunami in SE asia, the US barracks bombing in Lebanon, the persian guld war syndrome, AIDS, West Nile Virus, killing Assad's father, deceiving the US into the Gulf war, poisoning Arafat, the Madrid bombings, remember the Jenin massacre that never happened? etc.)

Dude, at some point stop and think. There are 15 million Jews in a world of over 6 Billion. More than half the European Jewish population where killed by the NAZIs prior to WWII (oh yeah and the Holocaust never happenend - I just know of at least a dozen people whose entire family where killed off).
Israel is a speck on the map surrounded by a billion Muslims who would drink their blood at the drop of a dime. But of course, little Israel with their close to extinct population are to blame for all the world wrong.

I assume that you think that if every Jew and/or ZIONIST is killed off then the world would all of a sudden become a Utopia. THat is the downfall of all those who use scape goats. They avoid the real problems affecting society and mankind as a whole.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 05:22 AM
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First of all, HeirtoBokassa, your links regarding car bomb craters is ,at best, vague. In describing the craters most were described as 10ft wide and 3ft deep. If you look at the photos of the al-Hariri bomb site, the crater is at least 6ft deep and 30ft wide. seeing those pictures I went back to see what kind of crater was left in Oklahoma City. To my surprise, there was no crater(homestead.com). I have to agree with SiberianTiger, what did Syria have to gain by doing this? Nothing, it would only bring unwanted attention to the area. Now what would Israel gain by doing this and why? Destabilise the region and put the world spotlight on Syria which is going to acquire advanced SS-18 surface to air missles from Russia over the direct objections of Sharon who made a direct plea to Putin not to sell to Syria and was rebuked. I do not believe this to be a car bomb, more likely a missile. By who? It would be easy to say Israel, but there's no proof and I will not accuse without proof, unlike most posting here. Lets be more objective people and not slaves to a singular position.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by QuietRenegade
First of all, HeirtoBokassa, your links regarding car bomb craters is ,at best, vague.


Were they? They quite clearly answer this claim made by dh:

The pressures from conventional explosives aren't sufficient to dig holes in roads without directional velocity. Car bombs should by rights explode up and out following the areas of least resistance

and this claim made by SiberianTiger's micronuke source: EDIT: I originally mistakenly attributed that source to Souljah. Sorry.

The only way any explosive can cause a crater is if it is first dropped from an aircraft and penetrates sub-surface before exploding, or if it is physically positioned sub-surface in advance.

So, you were saying... ?


In describing the craters most were described as 10ft wide and 3ft deep.


Why do you say most? Why not all? Is it because you are hesitant to put an upper limit on the size of a crater that you could attribute to a car bomb? And why do you not take into account that different sizes of car bombs, different designs of car bombs, different road structures, and different ground compositions mean a variance in the size of craters resulting from car bombs?


seeing those pictures I went back to see what kind of crater was left in Oklahoma City. To my surprise, there was no crater(homestead.com).


Get your story straight. Here's what I found on an Oklahoma City Bombing conspiracy site:

...even under ideal conditions (not often reached even by experts) 4,800 pounds of ANFO explosive would create a much smaller crater than the one left in front of the Murrah building...
www.stopcovertwar.com...


Note that the very presence of a crater is what these conspiracy theorists use to support their claims.

From another conspiracy site on that bombing that has an opposite view (these guys claim the bombing was a cover-up because the crater was too small:

And the real size of it was between 16 and 18 feet, maxium, depending at what angle you�re measuring it from.
www.disinfo.com...


No crater indeed.
And again, neither you or any of these crackpots takes into account the difference in road structure and ground composition of different car bomb sites when doing their little armchair-analyst comparisons.


what did Syria have to gain by doing this? Nothing, it would only bring unwanted attention to the area.


You can keep saying that as often as you like, but I'm going to repeat what has already been pointed out:

from Aljazeera !

On Tuesday, the Lebanese As-Safir newspaper published what it said were al-Hariri's last public words, said to reporters at a cafe outside parliament, minutes before his death.

"Mistakes have been made and are still being made," he said.

"I don't see that as being in the interest of the country. Everyone should realise that Lebanon cannot continue without an internal national accord and one with Syria."
english.aljazeera.net...


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



Hariri resigned as prime minister in October after falling out with Syria over its role in extending the presidential term of Lahoud, his political rival.

He then joined opposition leaders in calling for Syria to withdraw its troops and stop interfering in Lebanese affairs, as demanded by the U.N. Security Council.
www.reuters.co.za...;:4213202f:5e80bf2fbb11f728?type=topNews&localeKey=en_ZA&storyID=7645228


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


So a guy who made it his campaign focus for Syria to withdraw from Lebanon is killed, and Syria has no interest in that?
Please.


Lets be more objective people and not slaves to a singular position.


Indeed.

[edit on 16-2-2005 by HeirToBokassa]



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 06:37 AM
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Originally posted by HeirToBokassa

and this claim made by Souljah's micronuke source:

The only way any explosive can cause a crater is if it is first dropped from an aircraft and penetrates sub-surface before exploding, or if it is physically positioned sub-surface in advance.

hmmmm,
MY micronuke source?
i never said they used micronukes.
i asked "what micronukes?"

but if you ask me now,
i sincerley dont know what they used,
because the blast looks really powerfull,
as if dropped from an airplane.
weird...



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 06:43 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
MY micronuke source?


Sorry, that should have read "SiberianTiger's micronuke source".



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 06:47 AM
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Originally posted by HeirToBokassa

Originally posted by Souljah
MY micronuke source?


Sorry, that should have read "SiberianTiger's micronuke source".

no prob.
this crater is really puzzling me now.
how do you think they created such a crater?
only a "car bomb" wouldnt do so much damage to the concrete,
or would it?



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
only a "car bomb" wouldnt do so much damage to the concrete,
or would it?


We're dealing with a car bomb that left a 30 ft wide and 9 ft deep crater (if initial accounts are reliable). That's larger than the average car bomb crater. Also, much destruction was done to the nearby cars and buildings. So what does this mean?

Now first, for perspective, even a car bomb that leaves a 3.5 foot crater can do much damage to nearby structures. Example:

The blast gouged a 3 1/2-foot crater in the street in front of the mosque, tore apart nearby cars and reduced neighboring shops to a tangled mass of metal, wood and corpses.
www.chinadaily.com.cn...

And that isn't even to say that this 3.5 foot crater was caused by a much less powerful bomb than the Hariri bomb. Why? Because as I have pointed out numerous times, road structure and ground composition play a role along with the obvious bomb size and bomb design.

Now here's an account of a car bomb leaving a crater 15 feet wide and 6 feet deep:

In widely conflicting reports of the number of dead, indicating anywhere from two to 30 killed, a car bombing rocked a residential compound west of Riyadh around midnight Saturday.
...
The explosion gouged a crater five yards wide and two meters deep. Children's toys were strewn among the rubble.

www.masnet.org...

Here's an account of a 10 feet wide and 6 feet deep crater from a car bomb:

Officials estimate that an automobile was packed with roughly 100 kilograms of explosives when it detonated on February 1, creating a crater roughly 10-feet-by-6-feet.
www.eurasianet.org...

Note that the official estimate of the bomb size in this case was only 100 kg! So what could a larger bomb have accomplished?

Here's a 15 foot crater (neglects to say whether that's width or depth, and if width then how deep the crater was):

www.cnn.com...

Here's a 10-feet deep crater! That's deeper than the Hariri crater that some are so quick to blame on a missile or "micronuke"!!!

The explosion left a crater 20 feet wide and 10 feet deep
www.chinadaily.com.cn...

Here's an account of what a truck bomb can accomplish:

GLYN DAVIES, State Department Spokesman: A determined terrorist is difficult to stop, especially if they concoct the kinds of devices that we've seen explode here, you know, in Dhahran. That kind of a device that can leave a crater 30 feet deep and 80 feet wide is awfully hard to guard against.

www.pbs.org...

Hey look, what do we have here?

A parked fuel truck blew up just outside the U.S. military housing complex yesterday, leaving a crater four times as deep and three times as wide as the crater left by the federal building bomb in Oklahoma City.

starbulletin.com...

Another truck bomb:

The blast left a crater 16ft deep and 33ft wide.

news.scotsman.com...

Here's a story on a radio-controlled land mine, which can't be ruled out in the Hariri case:

The radio-controlled land mine was hidden in a sewage drain on the street, about 200m from the palace.

It left a crater three metres deep and 5 metres wide, and blew windows out of nearby buildings.


news.bbc.co.uk...

Here's another car bomb (not truck bomb) in Jakarta that was 9 feet deep

The blast shredded the embassy gate, blew out windows in a several block radius, and left a 9' deep crater in the street. There were a number of secondary explosions, which led to the suspicion other bombs had been planted for the purpose of harming rescue personnel.

www.biohazardnews.net...



The sad thing is that this wasn't necessary. People should do their own research before making wild claims. And again, add to all of this evidence thoe following points:

- as I said before and I will say again, road structure and ground composition matter!!!
- the target in this case was exteremely high value. The car bomb should be expected to be more powerful than average.

I'll be looking for retractions from dh, SiberianTiger, aryaputhra, and QuietRenegade. But not expecting them, as it's more convenient to just jump to another thread and make new baseless claims than it is to take responsibility for one's own words.



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