U.S. HealthCare Workers Are Free To Follow Their Beliefs and Conscience Again.

a reply to: carewemust

really, will it enable doctors who are working in catholic hospitals to intervene and abort doomed fetuses and save the mothers from unnecessary pain, infections, and possible death if they feel it's the moral path??
no???

a reply to: SlapMonkey
Wow I forget how different our worlds are sometimes, thanks for putting a picture in my mind, seems crazy to me, I've never seen anything like that in my life!

Letting some bible thumper determine some's health needs based on their own religious beliefs. WCGW...

originally posted by: roadgravel
Letting some bible thumper determine some's health needs based on their own religious beliefs. WCGW...

Just rolling back the 2011 restrictions placed on HealthCare Workers. That's all. The country did just fine for 230 years before Obama removed their liberty to practice medicine how they see fit.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: carewemust

really, will it enable doctors who are working in catholic hospitals to intervene and abort doomed fetuses and save the mothers from unnecessary pain, infections, and possible death if they feel it's the moral path??
no???

I don't know. The final rule hasn't been approved. It's still in the formation phase. Only broad guidelines are available at this point, AFAIK.

I’m wondering if/how this will affect transgender veterans. Examples:
If a transgender veteran is in the VA Healthcare system, can a VA medical worker choose to refuse to provide services to this veteran?

Also, if a veteran has a life-threatening emergency, they are supposed to be able to go to any ER, including civilian ER. If a transgender veteran has a life-threatening emergency and is brought to a civilian ER, will this ruling allow these medical personnel to refuse treating this veteran?

a reply to: oldme

I'd only thought about refusing to be involved in trans related surgery for faith reasons, but if you mean someone refusing treatment to a trans person after a car crash or whatever, that's #ed up and they shouldn't even be in medicine.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: SlapMonkey
Wow I forget how different our worlds are sometimes, thanks for putting a picture in my mind, seems crazy to me, I've never seen anything like that in my life!

Man, you'd be surprised at some of the crazies in the U.S. That said, though, they are not the norm, by any stretch, and even really religious people find those who act the way that I described those ladies as doing a bit "touched," so to speak.

In the South in America, many people would just drive by and say, "Well bless their heart."

In case you can't tell, that's not really a blessing.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: oldme

I'd only thought about refusing to be involved in trans related surgery for faith reasons, but if you mean someone refusing treatment to a trans person after a car crash or whatever, that's #ed up and they shouldn't even be in medicine.

Now you see why I'm viewing this topic the way that I do...mostly, it's all about emergency care. If a woman, as opposed to elective abortion as I am, were to need an emergency abortion for health reasons, and a doctor refused to perform said life-saving operation on the grounds of 'religious (or other) beliefs,' that's not okay.

However, elective abortions, or sex-change operations, or plastic surgery, or any elective things--sure, they need to shop around for a place that does that.

Abortions and Trangender surgeries are not life threatening medical emergancys.

If a doctor refuses to do it then the patient has plenty of time to find another doctor.

originally posted by: Annee
This country is so going backwards.

This is ridiculous.

I would say forcing a doctor to do something against there will is backwards....

a reply to: toysforadults

Do you hate having freedom returned to you? What if you were ordered to treat Trump for a heart attack and revive him?

a reply to: Swills

Before we decide if this is a good or a bad thing, perhaps a look into the history of the country might be in order. In the past there were laws that were designed to keep groups separated. The various anti group laws, eventually would boil down to the Jim Crow laws that affected a good portion of citizens in the south.

One of those justifying these laws were based on religion and conscience, even one or 2 court cases that went to the US supreme court, fighting it out.

One of the consequences of these laws, were where those who were African american were deny medical services, at white only hospitals, even if the patient could die.

So is this such a good idea, that we now allow medical persons, people who see to the health of others, the right to deny on the grounds that it may violate their conscience, based on a religious reason, to deny services to anyone?

There have been, due to fear and ignorance where a person was mistaken for one group or something they were not, and that is currently.

This could lead to abuse on a level that we have not seen since Jim Crow, where one group or individuals are now denied services. Think about it, a single mother can now be denied services, a person who looks like they not be normal and so forth, and of course, if the person is say a different race or has a different skin color, or even a different religion.

originally posted by: Theprodicalson

originally posted by: Annee
This country is so going backwards.

This is ridiculous.

I would say forcing a doctor to do something against there will is backwards....

Key word: "Doctors".

No one is denying Freedom of Belief.

But, your belief infringing on my rights as a patient is wrong.

I have no interest in locking the door to your church.

I'm all for Doctors and Nurses refusing treatment because of their personal beliefs......were it not for the fact that most of them are self righteous fools with little insight into the Greater Plan of God's Design.

Most just fiddle about with their bible coloring books and get off on their high horses.

To wit: I once went to the Catholic Hospital near me for severe abdominal pains....mind you, I'm Catholic myself but this hospital employs all Faith and Denominations. I am no fool to my body, having lived in it for forty some odd years.

The nurse who consulted me before the MRI asked me if there was the possibility of me being pregnant.

I assured her, no there was not any chance.

I was currently menstruating and my husband and I are celibate for a variety of reasons, but nonetheless when I told her no, there was no chance I was pregnant, this Nurse snapped at me saying "Well, yeah, that's what the Virgin Mary said." before roughly shoving a pee cup in my hands.

Seriously unprofessional and a dogmatic jab to boot.

I had to bite my tongue with that woman, she was tremendously foul as it comes to healthcare work.

Abysmal bedside manner in a falsely dogmatic small town.

No class whatsoever.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Theprodicalson

originally posted by: Annee
This country is so going backwards.

This is ridiculous.

I would say forcing a doctor to do something against there will is backwards....

Key word: "Doctors".

No one is denying Freedom of Belief.

But, your belief infringing on my rights as a patient is wrong.

I have no interest in locking the door to your church.

Who mentioned religion?

You dont have to be a bible thumper to be anti abortion and against sexual reassignment surgeries.


A doctor refusing to perform a Abortion or sexual reassignment surgery infringes on no ones rights as a patient as the patient can just go to another doctor.
Neither procedures are medical emergancys and so there is time to find another doctor.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Hi,

This is how I read it; I hope I do this link, etc. right.
Link from the original post
The part of a quote from the link's first paragraph that made me wonder:

The Trump administration has reportedly developed rules to shield healthcare workers who do not want to perform abortions or provide services to transgender patients, ...

I might be wrong, but I didn't read that as transgender surgeries, but as any services/treatments to a transgender person.

I would prefer that medical personnel would not deny treating a person for life-threatening emergencies. But, the flip-side is if they are forced to help someone they disagree with, will the intentionally do things wrong? Below is an example.

On the abortion issue, I think if a doctor doesn't want to do it, then don't force them; get a surgeon that will do it properly. My reason is that if they are forced to do that, they might intentionally botch up the procedure. That happened to my exgf (years before she met me), where her baby's father beat her and hit her in the midsection. Her doctor told her if she would likely die, if she had the child. She chose to get an abortion. On the day, the surgeon disagreed with her getting an abortion and told her she should've chosen to die and let the baby live. The result was she couldn't walk for 3 years and never walked correctly after.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Yep, I'm with you on that, it's crazy anyone would deny care because of some belief.
I guess I just take it for granted that treatment is non discriminatory on the NHS here.

Well aside from budgetary considerations and who is top of the list...think heart transplant decision for a 30 year old or a 60 year old. Decisions like that are made every day.

originally posted by: Theprodicalson
Abortions and Trangender surgeries are not life threatening medical emergancys.

If a doctor refuses to do it then the patient has plenty of time to find another doctor.

There isn't a problem of doctors being forced to do abortions or plastic surgeries against their will. In order to do those surgeries you have to be a special kind of surgeon. Performing abortions or plastic surgery is something you sign up willingly to do. Seriously, stop repeating rhetoric blindly and use your head...

a reply to: oldme

Sad story man
I also see what you mean about denying all treatment for belief reasons...crazy there are people who would do that.