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How does ICE distinguish Legal Citizens from Illegal?

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posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 09:11 AM
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Just taking a wild stab here but if you either A) can't speak English or B) run when the ICE agents show up chances are good you are not here legally.




posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 09:26 AM
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originally posted by: JAGStorm
"unknown number of U.S. citizens being detained each year."


To be honest this is something I really worry about. I hear about raids and sweeps by ICE. Regardless if you believe illegal immigrants should
be here or not, my question is how do they tell if you are here illegally or not? Are they just going by looks, are they going by others
calling in? Are they going by where you work? How would ICE know if someone was not a citizen? Is there an agenda to eventually "mark" all citizens?

If you looked at me and my family you would probably assume I leaned more toward the illegal side as we look quite ethnic, however you could not be more wrong. Not only has my family been here since 1650's, we also have significant Iroquois & Blackfoot backgrounds, same goes for my husband.




www.latimes.com...

www.usatoday.com...


Really easily. Birth certificates and social security cards. Illegals don't have them. Legal immigrants get a green card, which is a social security card for an immigrant that is provided upon completion of the immigration process.

If you don't have a social security card, or a green card, then you must have a visa while undergoing the immigration process, if you're on an expired Visa, or don't have one, not a green card, not a social security card, you're illegal, plain and simple.

You could be legal and "detained" by ice, but you'll be free once they verify your citizenship. If you can't, then you're illegal.

Wow.
edit on 22-1-2018 by SRPrime because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 11:07 AM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
Sounds like a wonderful place to me!


Free vacations to the east. Only way to be sure.



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 11:08 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
If it happens with regularity, we should be discussing getting rid of bad cops, not getting rid of the laws.


It shouldn't be happening at all since it isn't a law. Police cannot ask you for ID without probable cause.



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


Your two scenarios don't apply to my position.


I think I've figured out the confusion: you seem to think I've concocted two scenarios. I haven't. AM presented one scenario, then you came in with an entirely different scenario, declared it to be the same as AM's scenario, and said that since AM doesn't support your idea then he must obviously support the opposite of your position. My pointing out that the two situations are not remotely the same is not a presentation of either scenario as being my own idea.


Now if you want to talk about how some in law enforcement often stretch (translation: break the Hades out of) the law in their overzealous attitude-driven ego trip... sure!


That was pretty much the core of what AM was talking about.


But I see no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.


And I haven't done that, so I'm not entirely sure why you keep trying to pivot this into that.


There are still good cops and they deserve all the respect they can get.


Ya don't say.



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 01:48 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


It shouldn't be happening at all since it isn't a law. Police cannot ask you for ID without probable cause.

You might want to read the Immigration Act of 1924. It is a crime to enter the United States without permission from the government. If an officer has reasonable cause to believe a crime has been committed, he may investigate under Probable Cause.

If an officer investigates without probable cause, that officer is in violation of the law and should be dealt with appropriately. The law should not be ignored because it caused an inconvenience.

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 01:51 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6


That was pretty much the core of what AM was talking about.

Perhaps I misread his intention. It sounded to me like he believed immigration laws should not be enforced. On the subject of abuse of power, we seem to agree.

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 02:34 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck

You might want to read the Immigration Act of 1924. It is a crime to enter the United States without permission from the government. If an officer has reasonable cause to believe a crime has been committed, he may investigate under Probable Cause.


Police cannot just stop me and ask for my ID because they may wrongly think I'm here illeagally. But I would love them too since it's a sure win civil case for me.



edit on 22-1-2018 by AugustusMasonicus because: I love cheese pizza



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 03:04 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


Police cannot just stop me and ask for my ID because they may wrongly think I'm here illeagally. But I would love them too since it's a sure win civil case for me.

As long as it is illegal to be here illegally, yes they can. They just need to show probable cause.

Actually, any cop can stop and talk to you for any reason. Probable cause is required in order to detain.

TheRedneck



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 03:09 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: TheRedneck

You might want to read the Immigration Act of 1924. It is a crime to enter the United States without permission from the government. If an officer has reasonable cause to believe a crime has been committed, he may investigate under Probable Cause.


Police cannot just stop me and ask for my ID because they may wrongly think I'm here illeagally. But I would love them too since it's a sure win civil case for me.




Actually, to be fair, they can.

And, being equally fair, you're entirely within your rights to ignore them and go on your merry way.

Example:

Officer: Good day, High-Ranking Mason, may I see your ID and would you consent to a search of your "man-purse" today?

AM: No you may not, and no you may not because my man-purse was very expensive and I don't want your grubby mitts on it.

Officer: Carry on, citizen.

This is a good video on how that would/should work out. The cop point blank says he has no PC to detain, but he can still ask the question.


edit on 22-1-2018 by Shamrock6 because: added vid



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 04:39 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
Actually, any cop can stop and talk to you for any reason. Probable cause is required in order to detain.

TheRedneck


Talking and asking for my ID are again two wholly different things. If Officer Shamrock McFlatfoot wants to shoot the shiz about sports I may, because I'm a nice guy, stop and tell him how good the Yanks are. But if he wants my ID he can go back to pounding the pavement.



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 04:42 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
This is a good video on how that would/should work out. The cop point blank says he has no PC to detain, but he can still ask the question.


Which I suppose was my point, when it becomes mandatory that I have to show ID then it's time to move to the secret Masonic Hollow Earth fallback point.



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 04:46 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck


As long as it is illegal to be here illegally, yes they can. They just need to show probable cause.


Is it probable cause to simply look or appear Hispanic?
edit on 22-1-2018 by Liquesence because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 04:50 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

All I got out of your comment was the lack of denial about owning a man-purse.




posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
All I got out of your comment was the lack of denial about owning a man-purse.



I don't own a man purse but I do have velvet tuxedo slippers. I usually wear them when I go food shopping.



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 05:28 PM
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Well this is awkward.

You do know there are 'white' Hispanics, right?

Right?



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 05:43 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Shamrock6
All I got out of your comment was the lack of denial about owning a man-purse.



I don't own a man purse but I do have velvet tuxedo slippers. I usually wear them when I go food shopping.


Very faux pas, unless you are wearing a polka dot bow tie..don't embarrass us.



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 05:44 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Shamrock6


Except it is different when one person has a reasonable belief that one person has committed a crime but has nothing more than the power to stop another person and chooses to do so. How on earth you’re able to conflate those two situations in your mind is beyond perplexing.

It shouldn't be perplexing for you.

Take two situations... one, a drunk driver runs over a child. The parents saw the car, but not the license plate. They tell the police it was a late-model Chevy, reddish in color. The cops locate a red 2015 Chevy Cruze with a dent in the front bumper in a driveway. They question the resident. He claims he hit a tree a few days ago and hasn't driven the car all day. The cops don't believe his story and arrest him for interrogation. During the interrogation it is discovered that he has a neighbor who can verify the dent was already there and he is released.

Two, an American of Mexican descent is driving home from work. He leaves his ID at work accidentally and doesn't want to go back for it. He drives through a neighborhood known to ICE to be a favorite location for illegal immigrants. ICE sees him and decide to check him out. He has no ID, so he is taken into custody. Later, he tells the officers where he lives and they verify his story and release him.

In both cases, the suspect was innocent. In both cases, through no fault of their own, they appeared suspicious of the commission of a crime. In both cases, the suspect was wrongly arrested. In both cases, the investigation showed the error and the suspects were released.

That is how I conflate the two. Illegal immigration is illegal. It is a crime to enter the country without permission. Sometimes, people are in the wrong place at the wrong time and appear guilty. It happens, regardless of the crime. Either you want no police power to detain anyone, or you want illegal immigration to be legalized and the border opened to anyone who wants to wade a muddy creekbed. Either way, that's fine. You have every right to your opinion. But please just have the ommph to speak up and say so... trying to twist things around is not doing anything to change anyone else's opinion, except maybe their opinion of the veracity of your opinion.

TheRedneck

Both of your scenarios requires an investigation and the police generally ask for an ID during the course of an investigation.

In both of your scenarios there was no "error", just an investigation. That showed that both people were innocent of the suspected crimes.



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 07:15 PM
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originally posted by: vonclod
Very faux pas, unless you are wearing a polka dot bow tie..don't embarrass us.


Silk. Black. And it's not a clip on/pre-tied.



posted on Jan, 22 2018 @ 10:10 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


Talking and asking for my ID are again two wholly different things.

No, they're not. The only difference is whether you like what they are saying.


If Officer Shamrock McFlatfoot wants to shoot the shiz about sports I may, because I'm a nice guy, stop and tell him how good the Yanks are. But if he wants my ID he can go back to pounding the pavement.

I'm going to assume you have never had many experiences with the police. With that attitude, I sincerely hope you never do.

TheRedneck







 
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