I Want Only The Best People

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Grambler

I think Hillarys deplorable s line has to rank much higher in the disgust column then anything Trump may have said .

Nope. I am no Hillary fan, but she was right there.

"You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? They’re racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic — Islamophobic — you name it."

I'd say about half of Trump's hardcore supporters qualify for that description.

originally posted by: soberbacchus
"You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? They’re racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic — Islamophobic — you name it."

I'd say about half of Trump's hardcore supporters qualify for that description.

I won't argue that. But I think half of Hillary's hardcore supporters are, too. Maybe more than half. Eh, actually I think the Democratic party hijacks every social justice issue to exploit it for the benefit of the party but never for the benefit of those oppressed, marginalized, discriminated, etc.

Whataboutism, I know.

But, it is what prompted me to leave the Democratic party and register 'Unaffiliated.'

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Grambler

I think Hillarys deplorable s line has to rank much higher in the disgust column then anything Trump may have said .

Nope. I am no Hillary fan, but she was right there.

"You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? They’re racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic — Islamophobic — you name it."

I'd say about half of Trump's hardcore supporters qualify for that description.

So using the same logic that is being used aginst trump for his comment,

You are a racist

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Not to split hairs, but Racists and those willing to exploit racial issues for their own ambition are two different kinds crappy people.

There are GOP in DC who might appear racist at first glance, but what they are actually doing is pandering to racists for votes, just like their are Dems in DC who appear concerned with racial issues while in reality they are just pandering to minorities for votes.

Then there are actual racists.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Grambler

I think Hillarys deplorable s line has to rank much higher in the disgust column then anything Trump may have said .

Nope. I am no Hillary fan, but she was right there.

"You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? They’re racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic — Islamophobic — you name it."

I'd say about half of Trump's hardcore supporters qualify for that description.

So using the same logic that is being used aginst trump for his comment,

You are a racist

Very hard to take any post of yours claiming logic seriously.

Your posts are to logic what a baby is to table manners.

originally posted by: soberbacchus
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Not to split hairs, but Racists and those willing to exploit racial issues for their own ambition are two different kinds crappy people.

There are GOP in DC who might appear racist at first glance, but what they are actually doing is pandering to racists for votes, just like their are Dems in DC who appear concerned with racial issues while in reality they are just pandering to minorities for votes.

Then there are actual racists.

That's like saying slave owners weren't actually as bad as your typical racist because they only exploited Africans.

I think those who exploit are worse than, say, white Trump supporting men who are feeling marginalized and threatened and speak up about it because of those feelings and are compelled by political messages that assuage those feelings.

Just my opinion though.

ETA: But my opinion isn't worth much on racism. I'm white.

I do, however, think the same thing is going on with the Democratic party and women, right now, though. So, I can't help but view it all thorugh that filter.

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: theantediluvian

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
That #hole comment really triggered the # out of you huh?

Me? Not really. I expect that from Trump because he's a douche bag. So, no. It sure as hell as triggered a lot of bizarre defenses from his supporters though.

It triggered the hell outta me, cut too close to home.

out of curiosity, is there any place on Earth you might consider to be a "sh!thole"?

Yes but not the people, as I stated in another thread all our ancestors came from sht hole places, from Plymouth rock to boat ppl, and unlike some , recent African immigrants are the highest educated group in the U .S so how is that for merit base,

I would take it further and say it is often people migrating from impoverished countries that succeed the most in the USA.

As it was with our ancestors, as it is now. They cherish every penny and work like crazy and appreciate every opportunity afforded them.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: soberbacchus
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Not to split hairs, but Racists and those willing to exploit racial issues for their own ambition are two different kinds crappy people.

There are GOP in DC who might appear racist at first glance, but what they are actually doing is pandering to racists for votes, just like their are Dems in DC who appear concerned with racial issues while in reality they are just pandering to minorities for votes.

Then there are actual racists.

That's like saying slave owners weren't actually as bad as your typical racist because they only exploited Africans.

Perhaps read my post again.

two different kinds crappy people.

I didn't assign points to who was crappier.

As to your point, a debate about who was worse, the new world capitalist that exploited slaves for money but otherwise was not racist, or the slave owner or average Caucasian that literally saw slaves as less than human.

Would it matter to a slave in the fields? It's a debate worth having, but I am not interested in this thread, time or place.

I said they are DIFFERENT kinds of crappy people...not better.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: soberbacchus
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Not to split hairs, but Racists and those willing to exploit racial issues for their own ambition are two different kinds crappy people.

There are GOP in DC who might appear racist at first glance, but what they are actually doing is pandering to racists for votes, just like their are Dems in DC who appear concerned with racial issues while in reality they are just pandering to minorities for votes.

Then there are actual racists.

That's like saying slave owners weren't actually as bad as your typical racist because they only exploited Africans.

Perhaps read my post again.

two different kinds crappy people.

I didn't assign points to who was crappier.

As to your point, a debate about who was worse, the new world capitalist that exploited slaves for money but otherwise was not racist, or the slave owner or average Caucasian that literally saw slaves as less than human.

Would it matter to a slave in the fields? It's a debate worth having, but I am not interested in this thread, time or place.

I said they DIFFERENT kinds of crappy people...not better.

Ok, fair enough. Both are crappy. I am saying the exploiters are crappier though.

If white, male, Trump supporters hear dog whistles...they are hearing them for a reason. The same reason that women hear whistles that say they matter. The same reason that black people hear whistles that say they matter.

We all want to matter.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: soberbacchus
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Not to split hairs, but Racists and those willing to exploit racial issues for their own ambition are two different kinds crappy people.

There are GOP in DC who might appear racist at first glance, but what they are actually doing is pandering to racists for votes, just like their are Dems in DC who appear concerned with racial issues while in reality they are just pandering to minorities for votes.

Then there are actual racists.

That's like saying slave owners weren't actually as bad as your typical racist because they only exploited Africans.

Perhaps read my post again.

two different kinds crappy people.

I didn't assign points to who was crappier.

As to your point, a debate about who was worse, the new world capitalist that exploited slaves for money but otherwise was not racist, or the slave owner or average Caucasian that literally saw slaves as less than human.

Would it matter to a slave in the fields? It's a debate worth having, but I am not interested in this thread, time or place.

I said they DIFFERENT kinds of crappy people...not better.

Ok, fair enough. Both are crappy. I am saying the exploiters are crappier though.

If white, male, Trump supporters hear dog whistles...they are hearing them for a reason. The same reason that women hear whistles that say they matter. The same reason that black people hear whistles that say they matter.

We all want to matter.

Minorities and women are not on equal footing as racists.
And plenty of white males found trumps dog-whistles sickening.

I could not care less if racists feel like they have a voice.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: soberbacchus
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Not to split hairs, but Racists and those willing to exploit racial issues for their own ambition are two different kinds crappy people.

There are GOP in DC who might appear racist at first glance, but what they are actually doing is pandering to racists for votes, just like their are Dems in DC who appear concerned with racial issues while in reality they are just pandering to minorities for votes.

Then there are actual racists.

That's like saying slave owners weren't actually as bad as your typical racist because they only exploited Africans.

Perhaps read my post again.

two different kinds crappy people.

I didn't assign points to who was crappier.

As to your point, a debate about who was worse, the new world capitalist that exploited slaves for money but otherwise was not racist, or the slave owner or average Caucasian that literally saw slaves as less than human.

Would it matter to a slave in the fields? It's a debate worth having, but I am not interested in this thread, time or place.

I said they DIFFERENT kinds of crappy people...not better.

Ok, fair enough. Both are crappy. I am saying the exploiters are crappier though.

If white, male, Trump supporters hear dog whistles...they are hearing them for a reason. The same reason that women hear whistles that say they matter. The same reason that black people hear whistles that say they matter.

We all want to matter.

Minorities and women are not on equal footing as racists.
And plenty of white males found trumps dog-whistles sickening.

I could not care less if racists feel like they have a voice.

It's unsettling how when a woman and/or a black person says "I'm made to feel like I am lesser for my gender or color of my skin. It hurts," people regard that as worthy and important.

If a white man says it...he is scoffed at.

I don't agree with the approach that we should only listen or care when anyone who is not a white male says that. And, I don't necessarily leap to the conclusion that it comes from a place of supremacist-feeling when they say that either. I think it comes from a legitimate place of feeling marginalized and discriminated.

But, it is popular, right now, to act like all white men are walking around with this glorious privilege and they have no right to feel the same feelings as everyone else.

I can't do it though.

Equality is all I really stand for. I don't want to tear down anyone but pretend to stand for equality.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Because racism, despite being pretty clear cut for most people, is still more about thought. Amd a bit about morality. Legislating either is difficult. Amd the result of the effort is some spillover onto the rights of others.

Itd be a whole lot easier if people werent assholes. They ruin it for the rest of us.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Because racism, despite being pretty clear cut for most people, is still more about thought. Amd a bit about morality. Legislating either is difficult. Amd the result of the effort is some spillover onto the rights of others.

Itd be a whole lot easier if people werent assholes. They ruin it for the rest of us.

I understand why it is ruined for the rest of us. Believe me I do.

However, I have a choice to try to 'ruin it for others' or take a more reasoned approach. There are white homeless men filling the underpass a mile from my house. Their whiteness and maleness aren't giving them much privilege. I can't pretend it does just to suit people's thoughts.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: soberbacchus
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Not to split hairs, but Racists and those willing to exploit racial issues for their own ambition are two different kinds crappy people.

There are GOP in DC who might appear racist at first glance, but what they are actually doing is pandering to racists for votes, just like their are Dems in DC who appear concerned with racial issues while in reality they are just pandering to minorities for votes.

Then there are actual racists.

That's like saying slave owners weren't actually as bad as your typical racist because they only exploited Africans.

Perhaps read my post again.

two different kinds crappy people.

I didn't assign points to who was crappier.

As to your point, a debate about who was worse, the new world capitalist that exploited slaves for money but otherwise was not racist, or the slave owner or average Caucasian that literally saw slaves as less than human.

Would it matter to a slave in the fields? It's a debate worth having, but I am not interested in this thread, time or place.

I said they DIFFERENT kinds of crappy people...not better.

Ok, fair enough. Both are crappy. I am saying the exploiters are crappier though.

If white, male, Trump supporters hear dog whistles...they are hearing them for a reason. The same reason that women hear whistles that say they matter. The same reason that black people hear whistles that say they matter.

We all want to matter.

Minorities and women are not on equal footing as racists.
And plenty of white males found trumps dog-whistles sickening.

I could not care less if racists feel like they have a voice.

It's unsettling how when a woman or a black person says "I'm made to feel like I am lesser for my gender or color of my skin. It hurts." People regard that as worthy and important.

If a white man says it...he is scoffed at.

Yes...the poor oppressed white man. Who looks to solve their victimhood by discriminating, oppressing, lynching, segregating (whatever) African Americans.

Lord help me...

Yes, white men have problems too, but those can be recognized and addressed without blaming it on brown people.

BTW - expect stars for that post, cuz it is straight up white supremacist recruitment rhetoric.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Because racism, despite being pretty clear cut for most people, is still more about thought. Amd a bit about morality. Legislating either is difficult. Amd the result of the effort is some spillover onto the rights of others.

Itd be a whole lot easier if people werent assholes. They ruin it for the rest of us.

I understand why it is ruined for the rest of us. Believe me I do.

However, I have a choice to try to 'ruin it for others' or take a more reasoned approach. There are white homeless men filling the underpass a mile from my house. Their whiteness and maleness aren't giving them much privilege. I can't pretend it does just to suit people's thoughts.

I'd say pretend nothing. Thats my approach, anyway.

I have to be honest with myself at the very least. And that usually means im honest with others.

Nonetheless, i see it, too. Homelessness certainly knows no specific demographic.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Because racism, despite being pretty clear cut for most people, is still more about thought. Amd a bit about morality. Legislating either is difficult. Amd the result of the effort is some spillover onto the rights of others.

Itd be a whole lot easier if people werent assholes. They ruin it for the rest of us.

I understand why it is ruined for the rest of us. Believe me I do.

However, I have a choice to try to 'ruin it for others' or take a more reasoned approach. There are white homeless men filling the underpass a mile from my house. Their whiteness and maleness aren't giving them much privilege. I can't pretend it does just to suit people's thoughts.

I'd say pretend nothing.

Thats my approach, anyway.

I have to be honest with myself at the very least. And that usually means im honest with others.

Nonetheless, i see it, too. Homelessness certainly knows no specific demographic.

Or drug addiction, or unemployment..

White males are breaking records right now for suicide rates as well.

Again, the issue aint brown people and as long as racists in DC and other places sell it as that, the problem doesn't get fixed.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Because racism, despite being pretty clear cut for most people, is still more about thought. Amd a bit about morality. Legislating either is difficult. Amd the result of the effort is some spillover onto the rights of others.

Itd be a whole lot easier if people werent assholes. They ruin it for the rest of us.

The problem is that we've lost sight of what equality should be when it comes to law.

There are an increasing number of people who think the purpose of the law is to make us all equal, as in enforce an equal outcome so that no one is better or worse off than anyone else and if some groups now seem to be disproportionately better or worse off than others, they think we need laws to even that out.

They call it social justice.

The problem is that the only way you can make laws to attempt to level the end results of life is to legally advantage some to the legal disadvantage of others. In the classic sense, this is unfair, but for the proponents of social justice, it is considered necessary and just because those disadvantaged groups were unfairly put in the position they were in.

What gets missed is that inevitably some individuals will be more advantaged than intended and some will be more disadvantaged than intended; sometimes, those side effects will spill over onto entire new demographic groups!

But that just creates an entire new cause for social justice and the need for more laws to try to even things out again. It has, by that time, already been forgotten that it was their fault these problems came about in the first place.

The classical system of equality is simply that you see a need for a law to everyone's benefit and all are treated the same by it.

If 35 mph is the speed limit, then that is the speed limit.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: soberbacchus
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Not to split hairs, but Racists and those willing to exploit racial issues for their own ambition are two different kinds crappy people.

There are GOP in DC who might appear racist at first glance, but what they are actually doing is pandering to racists for votes, just like their are Dems in DC who appear concerned with racial issues while in reality they are just pandering to minorities for votes.

Then there are actual racists.

That's like saying slave owners weren't actually as bad as your typical racist because they only exploited Africans.

Perhaps read my post again.

two different kinds crappy people.

I didn't assign points to who was crappier.

As to your point, a debate about who was worse, the new world capitalist that exploited slaves for money but otherwise was not racist, or the slave owner or average Caucasian that literally saw slaves as less than human.

Would it matter to a slave in the fields? It's a debate worth having, but I am not interested in this thread, time or place.

I said they DIFFERENT kinds of crappy people...not better.

Ok, fair enough. Both are crappy. I am saying the exploiters are crappier though.

If white, male, Trump supporters hear dog whistles...they are hearing them for a reason. The same reason that women hear whistles that say they matter. The same reason that black people hear whistles that say they matter.

We all want to matter.

Minorities and women are not on equal footing as racists.
And plenty of white males found trumps dog-whistles sickening.

I could not care less if racists feel like they have a voice.

It's unsettling how when a woman or a black person says "I'm made to feel like I am lesser for my gender or color of my skin. It hurts." People regard that as worthy and important.

If a white man says it...he is scoffed at.

Yes...the poor oppressed white man. Who looks to solve their victimhood by discriminating, oppressing, lynching, segregating (whatever) African Americans.

Lord help me...

Yes, white men have problems too, but those can be recognized and addressed without blaming it on brown people.

It is class warfare, not white on black warfare.

It really has nothing to do with poor or even average income white men discriminating, oppressing, lynching, segregating. I mean, just throw out the lynching altogether...there is no disproportionate rate of white on black violent crime.

These are class and power issues. White women, black men, black women can have more power than a lot of white men in this country. Oprah, herself, can send a book to the top of the NYT bestsellers list.

This is a rich & powerful vs. poor and powerless problem...and they have convinced you it is about racism or sexism. It's not though.

On the topic of segregation, however...I CHOOSE to live an integrated life. I intentionally chose a diverse urban neighborhood to buy a home. I don't see many people, black or white, choosing to do that. I spend my money at minority owned and operated local businesses in my neighborhood. Meanwhile, some people cast a vote for a wealthy, powerful woman or black person and they go back to their segregated lives and pat themselves on the back for being enlightened and point their fingers at anyone who didn't vote they way they did.

Blerg. It's just a sh*show. And it really is a show without any substance.

originally posted by: soberbacchus
BTW - expect stars for that post, cuz it is straight up white supremacist recruitment rhetoric.

Dispute my point. Don't mischaracterize it to suit your own.

a reply to: soberbacchus

The white male suicide has quite a bit to do with soldiers suicide.

Something that we really don't talk about: "white male" means a lot of different things. Its includes the rich old farts its usually intended to bring to mind. It includes gypsy/travellers. It includes people who've been the result of generations of questionable genetics/nutrition/environmental exposure. It includes ethnic groups that span from the Atlantic to the Pacific, all of which go undefined under the banner of "white".

What all of this tells me is that its not the color of ones skin that creates any difference in the lives realized by black people, at least not from the general public. I firmly believe that our criminal justice system has been stacked to keep black people down. MJ laws, which then create felons that cannot vote or own a gun. They don't want black men voting or owning guns, especially after the issues in the 60's. Introducing crack into California "hoods", then preferentially providing stricter punishment for it specifically. More felons....less legal gun ownership....less voting.....less parenting.....

Methods of patrolling (sticking more officers in high crime areas) creates more opportunity to create probable cause against the population living in that area. More arrests, more felons, so on and so forth.

Add in the public housing systems, where you take felons and sex offenders and have them live in the same housing complexes as women trying to raise kids alone, since their men are in prison (see the above reference to a rigged criminal justice system)....where else will felons and sex offenders live? They don't typically have good credit and references. A nice, dense population of trouble for young kids to get into. Absent a father figure...who do those kids latch onto?

We have not created a system whereby equity can be had. We have imprisoned people in little urban islands of poverty, far from networking opportunities and upward mobility, chained with a monthly check and housing subsidy that provides a subsistence (and a still empty stomach just as often as not) but little more.

I don't see racism coming so much from people around me. What i DO see is a system that holds down a select few, typically black people due to the way crime is enforced, marginalizing them in society.

As it regards homelessness...that is typically the result of someone who is a poor decision maker. Mental illness is a frequent cause, as is substance abuse (which carries a DSM diagnosis)