The Media's Racism

a reply to: theantediluvian

The fact you think bring people in based on merit is elitist really sums up your whole opinion on this.

This is the new world folks, deciding things on merit is now prejudice.

I am sure when you need to hire a mechanic or plumber or doctor, you dont check their qualifications or else you are being elitist.

I assume we will start seeing leftist universities and companies refusing to look at the merits of the people they enroll or hire, lest they be elitist bigots.

a reply to: Grambler

Whoa, whoa, easy on the logic. Don't forget, you can't be racist against white people.

originally posted by: Oldtimer2
a reply to: dukeofjive696969

Funny in the 80's there are several pictures of him with these minority leaders praising him,you sound like a liberal,only listen or say what you want,truth need not apply

Funny that in the 80s trump was being called out for being a snake oil salesmean, but but but he took pictures with minorities.

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: theantediluvian

Oh look! Another thread where a Trumpologist sidesteps the actual issue and attacks the media.

And you are an anti-Trumpologist using your hate to sidestep the actual issue.

The actual issue is should immigration be a merit based system. That is what your President is asking.

Pot, meet the bloody fire!

P

We already have both in the US. So its a moot point you are making. I notice that people trying to frame it as the US only has lottery system are people trying to apologize for Trump or Alt-right #holes trying to do away with brown and black people.

a reply to: Pyle

We do not have a merit based system.

We have a system that includes the lottery system, chain migration, a special status for countries in peril.

Canada, those evil right wingers, have a merit based system.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I don’t pretend to know anything about you, nor about Trump’s motivations.

You clearly did so that a lie.

I don’t need to. That’s your bag, and it’s a safe bet you have no clue what you are talking about.

It's not my bag (Mr. Powers), it's everyone's "bag." The difference is that you pretend that you don't make assumptions.

Haitian is not a race, neither is Norwegian.

Now you're just being absurd. Did I say that either of them were? No? Then what are you talking about? What do all 54 countries in Africa, Haiti and San Salvador have in common? They're all predominately non-white. How about Norway? Assuming you're not going to employ Sec. Nielsen's lame defense, it's a "safe bet" that you know that Norway is by contrast to the other 56 nations, predominately white.

It’s racist to propose otherwise.

Good thing I didn't propose any such thing then I guess.

Either you do not know what racism is, or you really believe Haiti or Norway represents certain races.

Wrong again. There's a third option — you've fabricated a ridiculous straw man because you don't have much else to work with in terms of argumentation here.

When Trump “disparages” people from other countries, you automatically take it to mean race.

There you go again, doing that thing you claim that you don't do that you actually do all the time.

That’s your mistake, not Trump’s.

Didn't you just say that you don't pretend to know what motivates Trump? What are you doing? You seem to be having a problem discerning fact from opinion. It's my opinion based on what Trump said that he is in some part motivated by racial prejudice given his selection of countries (and his past statements). It's your opinion that he is not.

That’s why you’re wrong, and that’s why your allegations are fake, phoney, pure fiction.

Wrong! No fake! No fake! You're the phoney!

a reply to: Grambler

The fact you think bring people in based on merit is elitist really sums up your whole opinion on this.

I think the first problem is with what people are viewing as merits. Under the current system, investing 500k in one of the Kushner family projects is meritorious. How do you measure the worth of a prospective immigrant? How much money they have? How do you rank something like a desire to be an American and a belief in American ideals? How about work ethic? Is a person with a degree and no drive worth more or less than a college dropout with a dream and the motivation to make it happen?

That's not the extent of my views though. I'm personally open to compromise.

This is the new world folks, deciding things on merit is now prejudice.

Not only does it depend on what constitutes merit but also what is being decided. Are we talking about a job promotion based on performance, skill and dedication? Or are we talking about engineering society because we all know how things that can *seem* like "common sense" turn out to be disastrous. Take for instance, oh I dunno, eugenics. Is it a coincidence that the most prominent person in the modern anti-immigration movement in the United States is a eugenicist?

How about we start imposing ostensibly "merit-based" systems to making other determinations about society?

Perhaps only people with advanced degrees should be allowed to vote. I'm guessing that won't play well with the salt-of-the-Earth "real Americans" in middle America. Maybe only rich people should be able to vote. If you've got $500k to invest in a Kushner development, you can vote twice.

How about driver's licenses? Should we really let stupid people drive? Wouldn't we all be safer with dummies off the road? IQ tests for driver's licenses. Hell, let's have IQ tests for everything.

What about home ownership? I'm sure there are people who want a better class of neighbors. Just because somebody can afford to live in a neighborhood doesn't mean they've earned the right to do so, amiright? Why stop with neighborhoods? Let's have merit-based citizenship for cities or better yet, states.

I find it ironic that the Right has minimized the importance of college education for Americans on the one hand and has decried the evils of the "cosmopolitan" "coastal elites" in their "ivory towers" but when it comes to immigration, they only want to admit people with the most advanced degrees and the most money to plop down for a visa.

Except even that's not true. If that were true, they wouldn't be defending Trump's moronic statements about "#hole countries" — because country of origin has got nothing to do with the merit-based systems they otherwise express support for.

Is a brilliant scientist from Ghana less possessing of meritorious qualities than a model from Slovenia?

Again, please explain to me how country of origin has anything to do with merit.

I am sure when you need to hire a mechanic or plumber or doctor, you dont check their qualifications or else you are being elitist.

I'm sure when I hire a mechanic, I won't ask that person if they came here from a #hole country. Because that isn't a measure of their qualification.

I assume we will start seeing leftist universities and companies refusing to look at the merits of the people they enroll or hire, lest they be elitist bigots.

Perhaps all those leftist universities can start denying admittance based on place of origin? Come from a #hole? No education for you. Can't have trailer park refugees from West Virginia going to Harvard can we? Look at all these #hole red states!

a reply to: theantediluvian

A merit based system would include a variety of factors that would come to make a decision on who could help our country most.

You are imagining that this emans that people from certian countries wouldnt get in, or that onoloy highly educated people would.

Merit does not mean those things. If I am chosing a mechanic based on merit, that merit will look much different than if I am chosing a doctor.

So the US would decide what types of people we need, perhaps some construction workers, agriculutral workers, engineers, doctors, etc. and then chose based on the merit of trying to fill those positions.

This is how darn near every other country in the world operates; they bring in the people they think can do the best for the country.

Trump questioning why so many people from s-hole countries come in our current system that is not merit based, is a legitimate question.

You want so desperately for that to mean he is saying all haitians are crap and we wont let any in, but that is not what was said.

Trump has advocated for a system based solely on merit.

So your university question is backwards. Imagine that universities had a policy that let some of the people in by a random lottery, with no interest in merit. Then it also let in many more because there family was there.

And there lottery system would reject people based on their country, and favor others based on their country.

Thats would our immigration system is.

Your examples about home ownership[ and such, yes these things are all decided on merit! Cant pass your drivers exam, no license!

Can't afford a house, property tax, or upkeep on a house, no home ownership.

If we were giving houses out to thousands of people from on country based on a random lottery and families also having houses, it would be a nightmare.

Lastly, you again fail to mention the stats show that people that come from crummy countries tend to use more government assistance, and that the current system accepts over 90% people from non predominantly white countries, so based on the logic that trump is racist, that means the current system is also racist.

a reply to: theantediluvian

And the graph you added further proves my point.

The current system of immigration says that we have a random lottery, and chain migration.

So what that would look like currently is no merit system to get into harvard, and for some reason Harvard sees that a huge portion of the people getting in are from West virginia and Alabama.

seeing as how these states on average have the lowest levels of education, it would be quite reasonable for someone to ask

"Why are we taking so many students from the crummy states"

That doesnt mean they wouldnt take people from these states if they swuttched to a merit based system. It just means they want students that will achieve the best, and having a system that isnt based on merit but takes a huge amount from these states with crummy education levels is questionable.

On fact we can see thats the truth, because Harvard is largely based on merit, and guess wht, people from west virginia do get in.

Again, you are saying trump said we wouldnt take haitians in, but he did not say that.

He has said he wants a merit system, which would allow haitians that qualify to come in just like immigrants from any other country.

a reply to: theantediluvian

You clearly did so that a lie.

I clearly did not, liar.

What was that about Trump not wanting to replace the lottery and chain migration with a merit based system? 5 Pinocchios.

It's not my bag (Mr. Powers), it's everyone's "bag." The difference is that you pretend that you don't make assumptions.

I never said nor do I pretend I do not make assumptions. More fantasy.

Now you're just being absurd. Did I say that either of them were? No? Then what are you talking about? What do all 54 countries in Africa, Haiti and San Salvador have in common? They're all predominately non-white.

There you go making stuff up again. Now Trump is referring to all 54 African countries. Did Don Lemon teach you to say that? It certainly wasn't Trump.

He said #-hole countries. Not black countries. Not "non-white" countries. Again, pure, unrestrained, projection on your part.

There you go again, doing that thing you claim that you don't do that you actually do all the time.

Yes that right, proven by your contradictory remarks earlier: "What do all 54 countries in Africa, Haiti and San Salvador have in common? They're all predominately non-white. How about Norway? "

Look at you, "white people" and "black people". Was Trump being general with Africa? Sure. But unless you want to argue that Haiti, El Salvador and Africa rank anywhere near the same economic standing, quality of life, freedom, gender equality, education, as Norway, you have nothing but your unmitigated fantasies to play with.

Yes, I'll repeat again: When Trump “disparages” people from other countries, you automatically take it to mean race.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Fact is, Donald Trump has delt with people of different ethnicities, nationalities, races, in various settings and geographies for decades.

Very true