Read the Letter Trump's Immigrant Grandpa Wrote Begging Not to Be Deported

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

That’s the dumbest thing people say on ATS. Suggesting a mental illness when you have never seen or met me. I can say you are a stalker. I didn’t suggest for you to Watch Gangs Of New York, I was speaking to another member.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: AMPTAH

They usually need a business license if they are going to 1099 in blue collar work. For that, they need an ID. To get an ID you need a SSN....

I called a contractor to come fix my refrigerator some time ago in Florida. He came and looked at the thing, fixed it, and I paid him cash. I never asked to see his SSN. Come to think of it, I didn't even ask for any ID. I assumed that since he had an entry in the yellow pages, he was in the business, and since he came because of my call, I assumed he was who he said he was, so I didn't do any due diligence to check whether he was an alien or citizen, or whatever.

I believe most people do like me, they don't "police" the system themselves, to verify who has the right to work here and get paid. It takes lots of effort to keep checking the facts all the time. And we sort of go with the flow, and make assumptions about people depending on circumstances.

So, the guy that came could have been an undocumented alien, that just paid to put his ad in the yellow pages. I wouldn't know.

Most people wouldn't know.

When some guy pumps your gas at the gas station where you pull in to fill up, do you check his ID and SSN before you tip him? I think most people "tip" without detail checking of all these things. He could even be a homeless guy walk off the street and starts to pump people's gas for them. Who knows?

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

It is a loophole because it is being used, making the application of the law inadequate.

So even if it is not a loophole you want to claim that it is?... An ITIN does not authorize people to work in the U.S. You still need a social security number or some other type of work permit. Both can be obtained illegally, this is part of the reason why millions of Americans and residents are victims of identity theft, because illegal aliens either work illegally, or they use social security or some other form of work permit to work in the U.S. that was stolen from those who "dare work and live legally in the U.S."

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

loop·hole
noun 1. an ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules.

originally posted by: AMPTAH


I called a contractor to come fix my refrigerator some time ago in Florida. He came and looked at the thing, fixed it, and I paid him cash. I never asked to see his SSN. Come to think of it, I didn't even ask for any ID. I assumed that since he had an entry in the yellow pages, he was in the business, and since he came because of my call, I assumed he was who he said he was, so I didn't do any due diligence to check whether he was an alien or citizen, or whatever.
...

Just because "you" didn't check doesn't mean that that self-contractor doesn't need a social security. Your premise was to "claim" that if you work for yourself you don't need a social security, which is a false premise. But since you don't want to admit to making a mistake you keep on trying to claim "that they don't need one because you or most people don't check whether or not that self contractor has a social security number." But the truth is, that a self contractor does need documentation which includes having a social security number. Just because "you didn't check" doesn't mean that the self-contractor doesn't need a social security number.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

loop·hole
noun 1. an ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules.

An ITIN does not:
• Authorize work in the U.S.
• Provide eligibility for Social Security benefits
• Qualify a dependent for Earned Income Tax Credit Purposes
...

www.irs.gov...

It's obvious by now that you are deflecting since you don't want to admit to being wrong.

I admit i was wrong in thinking that an ITIN was linked to our social security number, but then again there are other legal ways of obtaining other work permits.

See? it's not that hard to admit being wrong... It can't be a loophole when an ITIN does not authorize anyone to work in the U.S.... You still need authorization to work in the U.S., or you need to work illegally.

There is no loophole, even though you keep trying to make one.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Just because "you didn't check" doesn't mean that the self-contractor doesn't need a social security number.

I just think we're using the English word "need" in different senses.

The way I use it, is in the practical sense of the word. The contractor doesn't need SSN to work and get paid.

You're saying he "should" have it, to work and get paid.

So, you're equating "need == should have".

But, there's nothing stopping the contractor from working and getting paid, but his own conscience.

Nobody is checking. And it's nobody's job to check.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Being wrong about what? Quote me where I said that it authorizes illegals to work.

I said they do not need to provide proof of authorization in a sanctuary city and, as Amptah pointed out, it also isn't needed if you are self employed and nobody bothers to ask you.

What do you think a loophole is?

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

That’s the dumbest thing people say on ATS. Suggesting a mental illness when you have never seen or met me. I can say you are a stalker. I didn’t suggest for you to Watch Gangs Of New York, I was speaking to another member.

naa, the dumbest thing people in ATS do is to call trolls those who disagree with them. BTW, if you only wanted that member to read your comment perhaps you should have sent that member a u2u instead of posting it in the forum?... You do know that a forum is for everyone to participate in a discussion and it's not a "one on one" only discussion?...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Who knew Gangs of New York would trigger trolls.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Being wrong about what. Quote me where I said that it authorizes illegals to work.

I said they do not need to provide proof of authorization in a sanctuary city and, as Amptah pointed out, it also isn't needed if you are self employed and nobody bothers to ask you.

What do you think a loophole is?

Now playing dumb? Just because sanctuary cities are willing to break the law it doesn't mean that "illegal aliens don't need authorization to work". The Trump administration is already working on how to prosecute "sanctuary cities" because they are breaking the law. Not to mention the fact that you seem to be implying that illegal aliens only live in "sanctuary cities" when there are millions living in cities that are not "sanctuaries", hence they need work permits or social security numbers.

BTW, as for the "nobody bothers to ask you" if you are self employed?... Is that why there have been people working without authorization who have been caught?... because "no one is checking"?...

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Who knew Gangs of New York would trigger trolls.

Who knew trolls would hide behind claims others are trolls?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I'm not playing dumb I said it from the get go:

Looks like the Feds (at least the IRS) are doing their part in the sanctuary movement.

They might not need them in sanctuary cities

Neither was claimed to be a statement of fact.

Anything else is something you made up on your own.

originally posted by: Saiker
Being a part of a family whom recently immigrated here I take offense to the notion that illegals should not have to abide by the law because it's not "fair". The system is simplistic in applying all there in black in white. Anyone who comes to the US illegally is putting an effort toward not doing it legally. Applying for welfare, food stamps, and health care does not require evidence of citizenship. Just a social security number (anyone will do) and a proof of residence (utility bill) and if both of these are not available one can just sign a waiver saying it's not available.

You people who defend people who do this should have to pay extra taxes to take care of them. I for one think America does not not equal a free ride but equals a land of opportunity to excel. Anyone whom chooses to remain in the shadows and game he system has no real intentions to be a true American that excels.

Awesome post. I literally know so many immigrants it is probably close to 100 if you take their family too. The Nigerian i know ran for office as an R and is mad at BLM. The Asians are so nice. The Hindu Indians and Christians from Inda that I know and have met are so nice. The Hispanics HATE the illegals more than anyone I have heard talk. They KNOW what you said is a fact. The people I know from the Caribbean are literally the hardest working and most sincerely capitalists I have ever met.

originally posted by: Lagomorphe
How about looking towards the future instead of scraping the bottom out of the barrels past?

Warmest respects

Lags

a reply to: Southern Guardian

Well, I mean. It's a little soon to be looking forward to 2020 and a new president but I like where your head is at.

Why do yall keep fighting over this stuff incessantly?

It's not even important.

I look at it this way, the guy knew how to make money on booze and hookers, sounds like a Kennedy.

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
man who spent 30 years of his life in U.S. is deported

On Martin Luther King Jnr Day. Wife, kids, sobbing. A nation of s***holers we are.

Wow his son didn’t even hug him back, just held his arms straight down as his dad hugged him.

originally posted by: daskakik
I never said they did. I said that they are not asked for them in sanctuary cities and that in that situation an ITIN is enough. The only fact that I offered is that they are given regardless of immigration status and that was straight as an arrow.

Make up your mind...either you don't know, or "the ITIN are enough in sanctuary cities"...

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
Interesting piece of history from the Trump family:

What's really funny, is that Britain used to "deport" many of their criminal elements to the "colonies", like America and Australia, because they didn't want these "dregs" of society living within the civilized peoples in England, Scotland, and Wales.

So, early immigrants to America were often the same kind of people that America is now "deporting" back to other places.

Oh, well, the irony of it all is quite amusing.

They were sent here to die as colonist in a barren land with warring tribes of savages destroying each other, or thrive for the Crown's taxation. I don't think you quite grasp reality with that statement.