How to destroy DACA and the innocent

a reply to: MOMof3

I believe that would be part of the enforcement plank that Democrats fight.

a reply to: ketsuko

Democrats are against everify?

“It’s going to take you, Mr. President, working with Republicans and Democrats to get this done,” Graham said. “It’s not going to be done on Twitter, by tweeting, it’s going to be done by talking and understanding.”

And the Democrats will allow nothing to go forward. They will keep their base down looking up at them and make them feel like thats just the way it works.

a reply to: MOMof3

It would seem the answer to that depends on whether or not Trump is for it.

You seem to be blinded by identity politics. Every member of Congress has 1 vote, and every member of Congress has the same opportunities as any other. Not every Democrat, not every Republican, every MEMBER. I expect my Congressmen to use good judgement in deciding what is and is not best for my state and country. I do NOT... I repeat, I do NOT expect them to vote for whatever McConnell or Schumer or Trump tells them to. They do not answer to other Congressmen; they answer to me and the rest of the people in my state.

So when there is a bill to codify DACA, which I consider a good solution to a terrible, self-inflicted wound, I expect them to vote for what they say they care about. Otherwise, they are liars and everything they say on the next campaign trail has as much significance as the rustle of leaves in the wind.

You can just lie down and cry about how life isn't fair all you want. I remember when my kids tried that, at about the age of 3 or 4. It didn't work for them, and it won't work for you. They learned. Will you?

Not everyone gets their way. But if we pull together, we can all be a little better off. If we all lie down and cry abot how it isn't fair, we'll all suffer. I choose to try and be a little better off, and hopefully those in your state and district will choose that as well this year. If someone doesn't want to do their job, elect someone who will.

'R's and 'D's be damned.

TheRedneck

a reply to: mikell

You cannot deal with a liar and and a man with no honor. Trump will cut the democrats throat. As long as he is president, just let republicans and trump have their way.

DHS Sec Nielsen is testifying right now.

Talking about illegals and DACA.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: mikell

You cannot deal with a liar and and a man with no honor. Trump will cut the democrats throat. As long as he is president, just let republicans and trump have their way.

Excellent idea.

Tell Schumer.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
I want to see legal status...the DNC wants to see Trump fail, even if they have to deport every illegal alien that ever existed, including digging up graves to get the dead ones out. That is so painfully obvious, I don't see how a blind man can't see it.

Standard Democrat tactics. No different than when they voted to send soldiers to a war zone, then voted against funding them with body armor and bullets so they could raise the body count.

DACA will be used as leverage for the budget. I think Republicans will get something, but it won't be the wall. We already have a wall, even Trump has moved back considerably on his wall promise. It was never about the cost, it's about it being a symbol of success (even though it doesn't actually do anything) and Congress doesn't want that. I think people would be ambivalent towards the wall if it didn't become a monument to Trump.

a reply to: dawnstar

They want a skim the cream policy. I don't even think it's about race. I think it's about the right being so anti education, and having been so dumbed down that they want to lower the "prestige" of being in a skilled job. They want to turn engineering and science into low level immigrant work, so they have more of an excuse to treat those people like crap while they perform the real jobs of being a retail sales associate or data entry specialist.

The US has never had that type of immigration policy, and it's served us well to let anyone come over.

a reply to: Aazadan

I think people would be ambivalent towards the wall if it didn't become a monument to Trump.

That is the definition of identity politics.

Why does it matter who builds the wall? Does it matter who the builder was when you go to buy a house? Does anyone choose a car model based on who the CEO of the manufacturer was when it was made? Who thinks about the Chairman of the Board when deciding which fast-food place to eat at?

No, normal people care about how sturdy and comfortable that house is, how sporty or safe or efficient the car is, and what they want to eat that night. Only when it comes to politics does all that go out the window. In politics, who does a thing is suddenly somehow more important than what the thing does... and that is the problem. If people would look at the situation pragmatically, we would not be having border security issues (meaning we would not ever have needed the wall), we would not be debating something as obvious (to me anyway) as DACA, and we would have better education and a better economy for everyone.

But no, it is more fun I suppose to try and twist issues to fit a "my side wins" ideology... is football not enough?

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Well, to flip your question around. Why do we need another wall? We already have one in the problem areas and illegal border crossings are not where our immigrant "problem" is coming from. Our biggest problem is that people come over legally, either by flying (especially Asians, which are our largest illegal demographic), or through border checkpoints. Illegal immigration is mostly caused by people overstaying legally issued work visas, not from coyotes trucking people over the border.

I think the wall is going after the wrong problem. Back in 1989 or whenever it was, when we issued amnesty this was a real issue but the causes have changed, and that's something we should take into consideration when dictating immigration policy. We're completely ignoring the largest sources of illegal immigration in order to address a much smaller, but much more visible source. And that's not a failure or any specific person or party, everyone involved collectively refuses to address it.

I think the opposition to the wall is silly, we're getting worked up over what, ~$30 billion over a decade? That's literally nothing in terms of government budgets. Even $100 billion over a decade barely scratches the surface of what could be considered real money at this point. In terms of a cost/benefit analysis, I think we're probably wasting more money in debating and opposing the wall than we are to just build it and let it quietly sit there and be ineffective, simply because Congress's limited time is worth more than that.

The wall is all about politics, it's become a symbol of the Trump administration, and therefore sabotaging it is in effect sabotaging the legacy of the President. Such moves have been common by the opposition party for as far back as I can remember, that's just the reality of politics I suppose and that goes double when you have a media personality like Trump running the show.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: mikell

You cannot deal with a liar and and a man with no honor. Trump will cut the democrats throat. As long as he is president, just let republicans and trump have their way.

This should read "You cannot deal with a liar and and a man with no honor. Generic_001 President will cut the Generic_001 minority partie's throat. As long as he is Generic_001 president, just let Generic_001 majority party and Generic_001 President have their way."

I haven't seen much differences in the last 60 years... Just a lot more complaining about the same old thing these days...lol

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: TheRedneck

Well, to flip your question around. Why do we need another wall?

Well it was a campaign promise and he won.... Trump has this bad political habit of trying to actually work though his promises... BAD politican, BAD...

originally posted by: Xtrozero
Well it was a campaign promise and he won.... Trump has this bad political habit of trying to actually work though his promises... BAD politican, BAD...

Sure, but isn't that just tying the wall to Trump, which means opposing the wall turns into opposing Trump, which is something many people want. Remember, more than 50% of the population voted against Trump and his agenda and the wall was a huge factor in that voting, as it was one of the more polarizing issues.

And remember, we already have a wall. It's clearly not addressing the problem. Is another, bigger wall (even though Trump keeps scaling back the scope of said wall) going to fix it? A wall doesn't address the cause of our illegal immigration issue. Other types of enforcement would.

a reply to: Aazadan

Well, to flip your question around. Why do we need another wall?

Because nothing else will work. The Democrats in Congress themselves have necessitated a wall.

You see, back before your time (I assume based on the question), President Ronald Reagan oversaw the implementation of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. It gave a fairly easy path to legalization and eventual citizenship to an estimated 2 million illegal aliens living in the United States. It was one of the least popular bills passed under Reagan, but he still signed it. Why? Because Congress had promised to follow it up with funding for increased border enforcement.

But that didn't happen. The Democrats controlled Congress and they refused to pass the funding for tighter border security. In simple terms, they lied. Millions of illegal aliens became US citizens and not a single thing was done to stop the border issues.

So... if we cannot depend on the Congress to do their job, especially on the Democratic Congress, then we have to fix the problem in a more permanent solution. That solution is a wall. It may or may not help with the overall problem, but one thing it will do: it will make it harder for people to cross the border illegally than it is now. Right now, it's a short walk across a muddy creekbed called the Rio Grande. I've seen it, just outside El Paso. Nothing but a few yards of semi-dry mud separating one country form the other, and people walking across.

If Congress had kept their word back then, we would not need a wall. I would oppose a wall as unnecessary. But they didn't, and I don't. That''s the consequences of lying... your word is worthless afterwards. I want the border closed so people in the US are not exposed to crime from raiders crossing the border, drugs imports will not have the overland option, and poor people in Mexico will not be taken advantage of by coyotes who wind up essentially selling them into slavery.

Maybe you just weren't aware of the history concerning the issue, or maybe you want the border left open so those things can continue. Either way, that's fine, and your prerogative as a citizen. Freedom of Speech. But just please admit it.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Aazadan

And remember, we already have a wall.

No, we don't. We have sections of a wall. There are vast areas along the southern border that are wide open and poorly patrolled. Have you ever seen a fence that only had little sections up here and there? It is possible, easy even, to just walk around the sections, and it serves no useful purpose.

There are areas where a wall is not needed. A fence will do in some, and in others the terrain forms a natural barrier. But there cannot be big missing sections along the border where there is nothing, or there might as well be no wall period.

TheRedneck

DACA should be deported. It's not Trump fault they were brought here. I don't care if they haven't committed any new crimes, they should still be deported. We are a nation of laws, they broke the laws by coming and staying in our country illegally.

How about we think about American Citizens, how over 11million illegals are taking resources and jobs away from them.

The people want a wall built, they want stronger enforcement of our immigration laws. They want our government to target businesses that are known to hire illegals.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Xtrozero
Well it was a campaign promise and he won.... Trump has this bad political habit of trying to actually work though his promises... BAD politican, BAD...

Sure, but isn't that just tying the wall to Trump, which means opposing the wall turns into opposing Trump, which is something many people want. Remember, more than 50% of the population voted against Trump and his agenda and the wall was a huge factor in that voting, as it was one of the more polarizing issues.

And remember, we already have a wall. It's clearly not addressing the problem. Is another, bigger wall (even though Trump keeps scaling back the scope of said wall) going to fix it? A wall doesn't address the cause of our illegal immigration issue. Other types of enforcement would.

What wall do we have outside of a few places with vast areas open to basically nothing to stop people from walking into America?

All this is like saying that people can get though a locked door, so there is no reason to lock your doors... A wall is a locked door, ya some can get though but the majority will not. Some might be willing to break your locked door in, but the majority will not...

I agree there are many levels to this than just a wall, but that doesn't mean a wall is not needed or that is it worthless as it fits in with many other pieces of immigration control.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I agree there are many levels to this than just a wall, but that doesn't mean a wall is not needed or that is it worthless as it fits in with many other pieces of immigration control.

There are indeed many levels. One thing Trump was able to do immediately was reassure border patrols that they could finally do their job. That combined with a serious threat of deportation dropped the immigration rate across the border.

But that is temporary. We need a multi-pronged approach: a wall to slow down attempts to cross, more border patrol to catch those attempts, a tightening on VISA overstays, stricter enforcement against hiring illegal immigrants, an end to sanctuary cities, and an expedited legal entry system. it would also be good to help Mexico improve itself economically, but we have to fix our own issues before we can do that.

I believe the wall is but one part of Trump's plans... a very visible part, a very emotional part, but still only one part.

TheRedneck