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The Cart Is Always Before The Horse These Days

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posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 08:27 AM
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Greetings fellow members.

A great many things about the last decade of politics, have made it clear to me that there is a fundamental misunderstanding about how to go about dealing with serious problems, be they in the realm of internal policy, foreign policy, and a whole host of other realms of thought.

One of the most glaring examples of this, of course, is the way the western world has tried to tackle the rise of IS and other groups like it. Fundamental misunderstandings on the part of the population, about the origins of these groups, makes it possible for those who know EXACTLY how these things got going, to scam the populations of nations like the US, the UK, France, Germany, and so on, into believing these things just cropped up, all on their own, without any prompting at all from anywhere else.

Many people refuse to engage with reality on this topic, that being that IS and virtually every major terror network in the world, owes its origins to CIA operations, designed to deliberately destabilise regions which either run a different system of governance, one which is not corporate controlled, or regions which contain mineral or other resources, which the US and its allies would like easier, cheaper access to. The US, with help from the UK, has been in the business of controlling matters it has no business in, for decade upon decade, since just after the Second World War in fact. Both the War on Drugs, and the War on Terror have the same origins, not different ones. It is no more the case that the cartels massive power, south of the US/Mexico border is a result of the desire of local people to the region, to sell drugs to Americans, than it is the case that the Middle East is beset by marauding scum, purely because there is a conflict of religious belief in the area. In actual fact, the CIA is largely responsible for the entirety of both situations. The cartels and the terror networks beginnings, and their tenacity throughout the years, are owed to the fact that the CIA and its enormous black budgets, have been applied to keeping both these entities going, because their existence is desirable from the perspective of those who believe they have a right to puppeteer, at the cost of innocent lives.

The Military Industrial Complex, the Private Prison Industry in the US, and countless powerful people within politics in the States, and indeed in the UK for that matter, benefit MASSIVELY from keeping things unstable, allowing the businesses in which they are invested to snap up the opportunities that are presented by nations so demoralised, damaged and rendered so poor by war, that they are willing to sell their resources for scrap value, to sell land for pennies, materials for protection.

Given that the origins of these problems are not with the smugglers, the jihadis, the drug farmers, or the bomb makers themselves, but the people who pay to make sure they keep getting recruited (who are largely employees of the American or British governments, or both), you would have thought, reasonably speaking, that the solutions to both the cartel problem, and the terrorist problem, would not be found in South America, or indeed in the Middle East respectively. And if you thought that the answers to these issues can't be found in those locations, you would be absolutely right. The answers to these things are not to be found where the damage is done, but in the nations and the financial structures, which promote those situations from afar, for the benefit of the select few who get the opportunity to invest in those problems, ergo, the intelligence agencies, MIC, PIC, big oil, and so on, in both Britain and America.

But for some reason, despite the problem being caused from within our respective nations, all the solutions we appear to be able to muster, focus on the regions we are about the process of destabilising. People are happy to hear that other countries are being bombed, or that this cartel has been hit by a multi-national team of elite special forces, but any reasonable examination of the situation will show that unless the funding from within the intelligence agencies of the west, for these operations ENDS, nothing will change on the ground, no matter how many terrorists and cartel men die. So why is it that no one wants to ACTUALLY affect the situations at hand? Why is it that we cannot accept that only acting against the originators, the instigators of these groups, the agency people, the MIC members, the oil barons and the powerful people who invest in destabilising regions of the world, will ever actually achieve the lasting solution to the problem, that we all want to see?

There are people in America and Britain today, who are sitting pretty atop heaping piles of our taxpayers money, paid to them to trade arms and services to the very people we are TOLD are our enemies, and the people who work counter terrorism and in drug enforcement KNOW who these people are. And yet no one supports acting against them, tearing down the structures which support them, denying them the right to do as they please without consequence. Our countrymen die because these people play games with the lives of nations, and yet we see fit to do nothing to stop them at all.

And more recently, the APA called out psychiatrists who make statements regarding Donald Trumps mental construction, suggesting that doing so is in breach of good conduct... I wonder then, where is their outcry against those using psychological operations to deconstruct communities and society itself, for the purpose of turning our people against one another, to make them more easily controlled, less powerful, less able to use their numbers to proper effect? I wonder, where is their outcry against corporate bodies employing experts at using psychological tricks, to manipulate people by way of advertisements over the last few generations? I wonder, where is their anger, at the presence within the ranks of US intelligence and military circles, of qualified psychiatrists and psychologists, whose task it is to formulate effective propaganda, the better to make the people incapable of asking these questions more broadly, more commonly than they are discussed?

When solving a problem, one does NOT start with low hanging fruit. You do the biggest and hardest work first, THEN you tidy up the easy little odds and ends which remain. This is logical, makes best use of available resources, and actually has LONG term effective results. But starting an effort with the lowest hanging fruit wastes precious resources of time, effort and energy, while making no net difference to the problem in the long run. It appeases the problem, capitulates to it, does not advance a cause, does not achieve solutions, just kicks the can down the road a ways, while creating scapegoats, and allowing the people to forget there is even a problem in the first place.

This is not solving anything.

Your thoughts?




posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 08:35 AM
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I agree with everything you have said. But after almost 20 years of deep thought, study, consideration, some action (particularly in my years before raising children) I have ended up stymied, with no real solution in mind.

These people do their crime in the light of the day, with impunity.

If I could stop them I would. But how? Any suggestions?



posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 08:43 AM
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I agree with a lot of this with a few caveats.

The western world does indeed fiance these terrorists in some areas, and then fight them at others areas or times.

Al Qaeda was armed by the U.S. in the 70s to f9guy the soviets, then the U.S. later uses them as an excuse to attack Afghanistan and Iraq.

The U.S. and West armed islamic terrorists in Libya and Syria.

And so forth.

But it is also true that the followers of Isis and aq and other islamic terror groups want the destruction or conversion of the western world, and the West attacking them is not a top reason. We know this because Isis and aq leaders have told us that.

But you are right, people in western governments, particularly in the 3 letter agencies want this battle to continue and we need to denounce them.

Funny then that you know this, and yet call for the deaths of trump supporters, seeing as how these agencies are against trump

How is this not the very thing you are criticizing?



posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 08:50 AM
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originally posted by: Grambler
I agree with a lot of this with a few caveats.

The western world does indeed fiance these terrorists in some areas, and then fight them at others areas or times.

Al Qaeda was armed by the U.S. in the 70s to f9guy the soviets, then the U.S. later uses them as an excuse to attack Afghanistan and Iraq.

The U.S. and West armed islamic terrorists in Libya and Syria.

And so forth.

But it is also true that the followers of Isis and aq and other islamic terror groups want the destruction or conversion of the western world, and the West attacking them is not a top reason. We know this because Isis and aq leaders have told us that.

Sure, people who were recruited by professional psychological manipulators, trained by the finest artists in the craft, from western intelligence groups, told you exactly what their artificial, CIA approved indoctrination trained them to say. People who have not been accessed by any part of that, do not say such things.



But you are right, people in western governments, particularly in the 3 letter agencies want this battle to continue and we need to denounce them.

Funny then that you know this, and yet call for the deaths of trump supporters, seeing as how these agencies are against trump

How is this not the very thing you are criticizing?


Well, for a start Grambler, what you fail to understand is that when I call for the death of fascists and fascism, I mean all of them, from the top levels of government, where it is most often created in the first place, all the way down to the street, because as we can tell from the cases of countless war criminals, repentance and rehabilitation for dedicated eugenicists and the puppeteers who control them alike, is basically impossible. Once corrupted, there are very few effective routes back to sanity, and all of them come from within, not without. Leaving these people to run amok meantime, would be the most socially irresponsible thing you could possibly advocate for.



posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 08:53 AM
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a reply to: zosimov

Well it OUGHT to be pretty damned simple.

The people doing the string pulling need arresting, trying and throwing into a deep hole until the heat death of the universe, along with everyone who facilitated their designs on the world, starting at the top, and working down.



posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 09:01 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
Many people refuse to engage with reality on this topic, that being that IS and virtually every major terror network in the world, owes its origins to CIA operations, designed to deliberately destabilise regions which either run a different system of governance, one which is not corporate controlled, or regions which contain mineral or other resources, which the US and its allies would like easier, cheaper access to.
Your thoughts?


Wasn't their some kind of military field manual describing occupation tactics that outlined ways of getting the locals to fight among themselves instead of the occupying force.



posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 09:08 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Ok but look at the last paragraph you typed.

This seems to me to be the exact mentality you are criticizing.

You are saying we need to kill all facsists, even at the street level. Just to remind you, you have called all trump supporters fascists.

So agian this is another admission by you that you are calling for the deaths of all trump supporters.

But how is this different than someone saying they want to take out all islamic extremism, both at the highest level, but also anyone at the street level that defends or believes in it?

This seems to me to suggest you would be for the war on terror, as the street level terrorists need to die too.
edit on 15-1-2018 by Grambler because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 09:11 AM
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America is a land of death. We are running out of jobs, wealth, freedoms. They want to pen us up with walls and debt and destroy the middle class. Now they are terrorizing us with burning us alive. We can’t change anything with the party of death in charge.



posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 09:28 AM
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originally posted by: zosimov
I agree with everything you have said. But after almost 20 years of deep thought, study, consideration, some action (particularly in my years before raising children) I have ended up stymied, with no real solution in mind.

These people do their crime in the light of the day, with impunity.

If I could stop them I would. But how? Any suggestions?


People gotta get active again.

A problem there is society so divided now after all the Identity Politics and MSM political hysteria. Brilliant social engineering design on their part. So tearing that down is half the battle.

The the other half is exposure of the Corruption itself (education). Of course that's a big complicated ordeal to put into full perspective where half measures just dont get the point across is always my impression.

I do my best to break it all down into detail. Those works needs further compression too.

People just need to start seeing the common threats, taking the tools we have and working together on those items instead of obsess over the petty differences that the MSM the Two party's and their social engineers keep trying to point us all at.



posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 09:34 AM
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I agree with zosimov,I don’t know what to do.IMO,the biggest factor in the destabilization of Latin America is both the CIA and the DEA running drugs to the U.S.Watch the movie Sicario with Benicio Del Toro to see how they do it.How does the average citizen stop that?



posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 09:36 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss



Great post, and I completely agree with you.

I haven't let MSM divide me from my compatriots.

If you despise and condemn the greedy murderous profiteers, then you are kin to me!



posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 09:46 AM
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ISIS was started by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian man. Yes, the origin of ISIS was a jihadi.

If you want to seek penance, I would suggest self-flaggelation, but please do so in private. No one wants to see that sort of masochism.



posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Wasnt IS "Al Qaeda in Iraq"...



posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

You make some good points here but the CIA hasn't been around sine 632 AD. There would be war and strife in the Muslim world (and the world at large) even without the CIA. Sadly, war is in human nature.


Sunni Islam and Shia Islam are the two major denominations of Islam. Their division traces back to a schism following the death of the Islamic prophet Muhammad in the year 632AD.


Link
edit on 15-1-2018 by FauxMulder because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 09:55 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit


[It is no more the case that the cartels massive power, south of the US/Mexico border is a result of the desire of local people to the region, to sell drugs to Americans, than it is the case that the Middle East is beset by marauding scum, purely because there is a conflict of religious belief in the area. In actual fact, the CIA is largely responsible for the entirety of both situations.


You're right. the only difference between the two is regime change requires dumping boatloads of weapons in the hands of local criminals, as in Syria, whereas in Mexico, the arms were dumped in the hands of the authorities.

Imagine dumping boatloads of arms in Chicago in the hands of gangs? A war would break out, the strongest gang surviving.

Presto, ISIS style destabilization. The local authorities become overwhelmed , airstrikes ensue, another city turned to rubble.

Edit: Now repeat that process in every major US city, arming the worst criminals and supporting their efforts with airstrikes to destabilize local authorities and pound infrastructure to rubble. Streams of refugees result , burdening other local towns and cities, creating chaos, as intended.

The desired goal is to create as much chaos as possible.
edit on 15-1-2018 by intrptr because: Edit:



posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

Um, they did arm El Chapo and friends for like a decade via multiple agency fronts.
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 10:05 AM
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Great title, I see this completely in our financial markets. The economy should produce then the markets are for price discovery and capital formation. The centralizers can boost, affect and steer the markets because of credit but they cannot produce overall prosperity in the economy.

Big control network of lies basically.



posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 11:35 AM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: intrptr

Um, they did arm El Chapo and friends for like a decade via multiple agency fronts.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Peanuts compare to the arms provided to EL Officialdom.
But thats par for the course too. Pitting sides against one another , arming both to create just enough chaos to keep the targeted country impoverished and less of a threat to the US.

By the way the Cartels wouldn't be able to operate without at least gubment complicity.



posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 04:16 PM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

A great many people believe in the adage "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." There are some who do not believe in this, however the governmental agencies do make and set policy and agendas based upon this idea. They also use subterfuge and distraction to further their agendas...

What many people do not understand is that the alphabet soup agencies and arms suppliers may have not created the instability in the ME, but they certainly have exacerbated it, maintained it, weaponized it, armed it, and of course profited from it.



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:40 AM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

If you must talk out of your backside, have the decency to muffle yourself with some underwear, theres a good chap.

You can name any name you like from the region, it really does not matter. The man, his operation, is an intelligence agency entity, like all that came before it, and like the next bogeyman which will be trotted out before us, to hate and fear.



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