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The Betrayal: The Cult of Trump turns on Chelsea Manning

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posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 04:52 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




A feminime pronoun needs to be used on someone who seems female. Otherwise its fake. This causes me anxiety because i cant lie to myself.



I'm so sick of pathetic arguments like this used to justify intentionally being disrespectful to Trans folk. You have a pretty weak mental constitution if you can't bring yourself to get over your "anxiety" because being "forced to lie to yourself" in order to show basic civility and gender us correctly based on our outward appearance which in most cases would seem to be pretty obvious. I mean if I can manage to suppress my rage and urge to beat your head in with a baseball bat when you blatantly disrespect me then I think you should be able to manage your delicate feelings of anxiety. That crap is a cop out and lie or your just an overly sensitive little b**** hidden in the frame of a man gorilla.
edit on 16-1-2018 by RainbowPhoenix because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 04:55 AM
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originally posted by: continuousThunder
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

questions for you to think about;
what does 'seems female' actually mean?


That using the correct pronouns doesnt create a cognitive dissonance within me, pushing me closer to the uncanny valley.



standards and perception of both masculinity and femininity are different in different cultures, have changed drastically over the years, and will continue to do so. who is the final arbiter of what is and is not?


The individual that you want using specific pronouns. It is their voice you would rather have control over afterall.



where is the line drawn, who draws it, and how do you measure it?


Again...the individual.



Cowboy posted after you about calling you ma'am, and i'm assuming it was a joke but it illustrates my point really well - you've got a given image of What Is A Woman in your head, but how many women have short hair and are still definitely women? how many women do you see in pants, or without pierced ears, or even with distinct facial hair?
Gender is tricky because there are lots of things we think of as signifiers, but none of them taken on their own are absolutes.


I dont disagree...but without a man making an effort they rarely look like a woman. Add to this that no surgery will create phermones...and its easy to see why some could be bothered. The scent isnt matching the eyes, basically.



is it not simpler to accept that there will always be outliers who are nevertheless absolutely a part of a given group?
can't we just exercise a little empathy and let people have their dang pronoun?


No. Because my comfort > your comfort. If it makes me uneasy im not doing it. I shouldnt feel like i am beimg forced to lie to myself to make a stranger feel better.



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:01 AM
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a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

So you are essentially telling me that you believe your comfort is more important than mine.

I gave a valid reason. You can respect it or not. But it feels like your reply is setting an expectation that only YOUR comfort matters.

Id challenge that its far weaker to have a surgery to address the internal inconsistency. All im asking is that i not be forced to lie to myself just to make you happy I didnt ask you to insult me as your response.



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:01 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




The scent isnt matching the eyes, basically.



Ugh...You prove you know nothing about us! I'll tell you first hand that because of hormones my scent has certainly changed. Not really trying to get too much into it but yes my sweat after years of hormone therapy now has a distinctly feminine smell to it.



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:02 AM
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a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

I would also add that if violence is your response to conversation you arent helping your case.



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:04 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




All im asking is that i not be forced to lie to myself just to make you happy I didnt ask you to insult me as your response.



Well we don't ask you to insult us every time you misgender us but you do and we don't want to force you to do anything but rather choose for yourself to do the right thing and be polite. The same argument can be made that you are in fact also putting your own delicate feelings and your need to protect yourself from your own anxiety in front of our feelings. It's a two way street, disrespect me and I'll disrespect you. I don't care if you don't believe you are disrespecting me as you don't get to decide that.
edit on 16-1-2018 by RainbowPhoenix because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:06 AM
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a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

You know nothing of phermones. Not hormones...phermones. You dont actually smell them. They are recieved via chemical sensors (its believed the VNO plays a role).



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:08 AM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

I would also add that if violence is your response to conversation you arent helping your case.



Now you are missing and/or obfuscating the point which would be that if I can have a thought of anger in reaction your blatantly disrespecting and insulting me yet suppress that anger thus successfully navigating and controlling my own mental impulses then how is it you are too weak to control your own impulses of anxiety? I'm controlling and suppressing the urge of violence while you struggle with feeling anxious because you would rather be "honest" while being rude than "lie to yourself" while being polite , how cute.



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:08 AM
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a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

It is my voice. Not your voice.

I dont demand control over you, dont demand it over me. Im not insulting you. Dont insult me.

Be what you ask for, or you have no right to ask.



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:09 AM
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a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

Its not weak. It is me choosing to be internally consistent

Trans people have surgeries to address this lack of internal consistency. I wouldnt think it would be so hard for you to understand.



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:11 AM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

You know nothing of phermones. Not hormones...phermones. You dont actually smell them. They are recieved via chemical sensors (its believed the VNO plays a role).



You like to put words in people's mouths, I never said I can smell pheromones. I said that my sweat now has a distinctly feminine smell which it does. There is a difference between the way men and women's sweat smells and you can notice it if you're paying attention.



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:15 AM
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a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

Ok...but that had nothing to do with my comment regarding phermones.

The smell of your sweat relates to all manner od endocrinological sources. Medication can change that too. As can disease. Some folks have genetic issues that make them smell like old fish.

Phermones are not that.



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:19 AM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

Its not weak. It is me choosing to be internally consistent

Trans people have surgeries to address this lack of internal consistency. I wouldnt think it would be so hard for you to understand.


No you are putting your own spin on it to make it sound a certain way. Some people look at cosmetic surgery with a much simpler frame of thought, "I'd prefer this look on me as opposed to what I have now so lets take advantage of the technological means we as a species have achieved and make an adjustment." It could be simply looked at as an aesthetic upgrade but instead you have to believe that it has to be about consistency. For example my breast development from hormones was very modest so I opted for augmentation not to be consistent with any preconceived notion but rather because I just wanted bigger boobs. My appearance is based solely on my own free will and outward conceptualization of my identity which I've chosen for myself without any need to feel consistent with any preconceived idea of how I as a person should look.



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:27 AM
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a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

Your telling me that gender reassignment has nothing to do with creating a psychological improvement?

Its just cuz you wanted to?



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:33 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




It is me choosing to be internally consistent



What does this bullcrap even mean? It sounds like like some pseudo-psychological nonsense that you just made up to defend your need to be a jerk or as you say "internally consistent". Like will your head explode if you "lie to yourself" and gender us as we would like? Like what is the consequence of being "internally inconsistent"?

edit on 16-1-2018 by RainbowPhoenix because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:36 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

And again, what you have there is neo-liberals dressed as something they are not. You are talking about people who believe in trickle down economics, which no actual lefty has ever believed in. You are talking about people who do not believe in the people having ultimate power over the government, and being able to wield it in more ways than mere voting. Those are not lefties. They are right wingers with identity problems.



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:37 AM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

Your telling me that gender reassignment has nothing to do with creating a psychological improvement?

Its just cuz you wanted to?



I'm sure that ranges form person to person just as the level of dysphoria does. My dysphoria is not as bad as some in that for example I could encounter some jack wagon that would insist on misgendering me and be happy with telling them to go fornicate them self and carrying on the rest of my day without thinking about it. Where as someone else might let it get to them and bring them down and be really upset over it. You don't get to presume how any of us feel because you do not and probably never could understand what it's like to be anyone else. We're not some uniform robots who all think alike.
edit on 16-1-2018 by RainbowPhoenix because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:46 AM
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a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

I am an honest person. Because being untruthful causes me anxiety. Its "bad" enough that i cannot lie to myself. It makes me incredibly trustworthy, and people who actually know me put my word beyond reproach.

I cannot lie. Not to you, myself, ot anyone else. Doing so makes me uncomfortable, and im not doing it.

Internally comsistent means my words match my thoughts. That im being truthful with myself.



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:48 AM
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a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

That is fine...i don't get to presume

And you dont get to control my voice. Nor presume why i choose the words i do.



posted on Jan, 16 2018 @ 05:55 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




Nor presume why i choose the words i do.


Oh but I absolutely can formulate my own opinion on why you say the things you do. I find you to be either disingenuous, of mentally weak constitution or simply just a jerk maybe all 3. Call me a man and I'll call you a sensitive little man ape.



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