No Great Inventions From Muslim Countries For 100 Years ( Title edited as it was a bit misleading )

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
What a silly thread to start!

Is it not enough for now that they supposedly gave us:

Writing, the basics of law, and mathematics, possibly even medicine. Without all of those the advancements of today would have either been stunted or not as progressive as it is currently. I mean, is it not believed the Garden of Eden is there, and that in itself is the ultimate triumph? These very people you seek to denegrate held special dispensation in God's eyes, you held nothing.

So what exactly is the complaint? Do you look to them for everything? Is it not enough that other countries get to ride their coat-tails? What is it?

Im not sure what you mean by a silly thread, did you read the entire thread? No one was pulling down Islam on this thread. I started the thread to discuss a quote from the Arch Bishop of Canterbury, i had no pre conceived ideas about if it was true or not and thought it was something worthy of discussion.
I think we established the things the Muslim world gave to us early on in the thread, such as medicine a and writing etc.
I didn't seek to denigrate anything or anyone. Where did you get the idea that i did?
As for the Garden of Eden im really not sure where that fits in to the topic being discussed, perhaps you could enlighten us as to the connection between Eden and the advancement of science in the Muslim World?
There is no complaint from anyone who has so far replied to this silly thread, as you put it, it has been a thought provoking discussion that has helped me understand the quote in the original post, you did read the original post didn't you?
Again perhaps you could explain your post a little more just in case i miss interpreted it.

XLEGIONS, thank you for your reply, you have answered all my questions in a better way than i hoped. I thank you for your considered reply and a lot of what you said makes a lot of sense. Im not going to dissect your post and answer what you wrote as i have no further questions about what the Arch Bishop said. Lets say that my understanding is better than when i first started the thread. Thank you to all who replied.

My dad could work in turkey as that is were he came from. Turkey isnt having its dark age as altrough the majority is muslim. The country is clearly seculair.

Originally posted by JanusIm not sure what you mean by a silly thread, did you read the entire thread? No one was pulling down Islam on this thread. I started the thread to discuss a quote from the Arch Bishop of Canterbury, i had no pre conceived ideas about if it was true or not and thought it was something worthy of discussion.
I think we established the things the Muslim world gave to us early on in the thread, such as medicine a and writing etc.
I didn't seek to denigrate anything or anyone. Where did you get the idea that i did?
As for the Garden of Eden im really not sure where that fits in to the topic being discussed, perhaps you could enlighten us as to the connection between Eden and the advancement of science in the Muslim World?
There is no complaint from anyone who has so far replied to this silly thread, as you put it, it has been a thought provoking discussion that has helped me understand the quote in the original post, you did read the original post didn't you?
Again perhaps you could explain your post a little more just in case i miss interpreted it.

It goes to my point that they gave us the building blocks that we have come to depend on today necessary for advancement since. These great achievements obviously do not seem to be enough given your comment

So i sat back and wondered why this could be, is it the Religion? Or perhaps that Muslim Countries may be too inward looking? Or could it be that Islam views the Sciences as heretical in some way? So if there are any Muslims or anyone who can throw some light on this for me i would appreciate it. Also if hard-line Muslims got their way and we were all converted would this mean an end to scientific advancement?

As it is representative of a negative view only suggesting that Mesopotamia, defined as “Islam”(the offending word), devolved back into the neolithic age because nothing new and wondrous has been forthcoming. The very importance of being the founding fathers of those building blocks, in other words the greatest achievers arising from what should be the most important place on earth to this Archbishop, the area of Eden, may have contributed exactly what they were intended to. The undertone of the Archbishop's message was to point the finger and denigrate them.

It was pleasing to see that not everyone agrees with the Archbishop.

No one doubts the things the Muslim world gave us in the past, but as the title of the thread say no inventions have come from from the Muslim World in 100 years then i think that any advancements made by the Muslim world before then would be hardly relevant to the topic being discussed.
Now im not sure what you are trying to say but at no time have i said that Muslim countries have not given the world important discoveries.
The quote at the beggining of the thread was by the Arch Bishop of Canterbury, no by by myself. And i have tried to look at what he said impartially, as i said before i had no pre conceived ideas about what he said and wondered what other people thought about the words he said.

According to the Christian Bibles, man wasnt supposed to eat from the tree of knowledge. Looks like were doing a pretty good job of it.

Ultimate Technology: Nuclear Weapons?>Love em. Man, the world is a better place with them.

Iraq had the third best health care sysem in the world. The United States was 14th.

As a culture, the Muslims pray enmass. They take time out from war, and work. Admirable. Christians who preach church cant even get there.

In college, some of the trend setters in class were alway students from the middle east. Most of your software programming now days is being outsourced to
India.

The west think of the Chinese and other cultures as poor folks sitting aroud with rice bowls living in grass huts.

Pride cometh before the fall. The chinese built a Rocket ship off of the Russian model, IMproved the hell out of it. Put a man in space, and the thing can land back on earth can be ready for a reshot within ...two days or two hours.

Before we use technology as the benchmark, lets ask ourselves about the purpose. Because we have technoloty doesnt mean we have advanced as a culture. We could have antigravity coats and be enslaving or oppressinthg the world for personal gain. God must be on our side, He gave us technology. It was to share. Remember the concept? Sharing....selflessness. Now we have it and you dont.

The truth is that these cultures have not had the resources for advancement as the west has had. Pretty simple. Simple life is what is wanted. You see Americans who have everything build cabins in remote locations to get away from the bustle of life. This my friends is balance.

And not that I suppport the insurgents in Iraq, but all our technology is haveing a hell of a time hanlding determination and will.
Arrogance over technology and elevation of a culture because of inventions is deplorable in my book and I debated even commeniting on this.

Im going to bet dollars to donuts without even looking that some of the top programmers in the world are muslim, top Microbiologists, and even Surgouns are muslim. Lets kill this thread. Its offensive. Sorry Folks.

Peace





[edit on 17-2-2005 by HIFIGUY]

[edit on 17-2-2005 by HIFIGUY]

[edit on 17-2-2005 by HIFIGUY]

Ok this is the last thing im going to say in this thread, before i let it die im going to point out a few things.

1) I do not subscribe to what the Arch Bishop said, i saw the quote and thought it worthy of discussion

2) I have in no way pulled down Muslims or Islam in this thread and, as far as im aware i have not insulted or offended anyone. Im sure if i had a Mod would have landed on me like a ton of bricks.
3) Some people forget that the quote isnt mine, i just brought it to peoples attention.

4) As far as threads about Muslims and Islam go this one has been conducted in a mature way and there has been no flaming, i for one found that a refreshing change.

m going to bet dollars to donuts without even looking that some of the top programmers in the world are muslim, top Microbiologists, and even Surgouns are muslim. Lets kill this thread.

And im going to bet my bottom dollar that you didn't read the entire thread, if you had you would have seen that very early on we had agreed that some of the best minds in the world are Muslims who work in the west. That was never the subject of discussion or a subject of doubt. The topic was about the lack of research and indipendant invention in Muslim countries.

Arrogance over technology and elevation of a culture because of inventions is deplorable in my book and I debated even commeniting on this.

Ive already said this once so ill repeat it again for you, the arrogance was not mine, it was the opinion of an important religious leader in the UK. Now no doubt what he said was deplorable but it should not be ignored, Deny Ignorance .. remember?

Iraq had the third best health care sysem in the world

Thats the kind of input i was hoping for in this thread, something positive that can be said about a Middle Eastern country. A link to the info would have been nice though.

The truth is that these cultures have not had the resources for advancement as the west has had.

Again you make a good point adding to the opinions already stated on this thread along the same lines.

Its offensive

Well if you find this thread topic offensive id suggest steering clear of any thread started by or involving DrHoracid, edsinger, Grady or anyone who has conservative views because as threads about Muslims and Islam goes this has been very tame indeed.
But regardless of if it is offensive or not it still deserves to be discussed and if found lacking thrown out of the window. Because a person finds a subject offensive does not mean it doesn't deserve to discussed.

On a final note, i have noticed that some people replied to the thread without properly reading the thread resulting in people having to repeat what they said 4 or 5 posts back, very annoying.
Well time to put this thread to bed, thankyou to all who replied.

[edit on 17-2-2005 by Janus]

I do my best to read, and my response was based on some of the others.

Hope No offense was taken as I was trying to point to equality.

Peace

Originally posted by Janus
No one doubts the things the Muslim world gave us in the past, but as the title of the thread say no inventions have come from from the Muslim World in 100 years then i think that any advancements made by the Muslim world before then would be hardly relevant to the topic being discussed.

To reiterate my point, in as few words as possible..so what? they gave us the beginning of all that we have, whay does there have to be more?

This thread and the logic posted by pro-muslim advocates, indicates the past 100 years and the future 100 years of Muslim countries. I think an intelligent mind can see how fuzzy logic has incapacitated our fellow muslim brethen. The biggest threat to west is Islamic fuzzy logic and not the jihadist.

someone said 'Mainly right now Muslim counties are not econimcally well off, and the first theing that gets hurt is higher education. Most of the advances if any now come from industrial nations with educated people... no one keeps track of what is there native country'

my reply

i suppose you forgot the fact they sell all that oil...
keeps em real poor
dont it?

yeah all muslims countries have oil /sarcasm

Originally posted by Janus

I did a search and this does not seem to have been discussed before.

Invention = time + money + education + freedom.

The Arabs haven't been leading in these areas for some time.