The 4th dimension - Scientists bend rules to catch glimpse of unknown

so it follows that 4D objects would cast 3D shadows

I always had a gut feeling lucky luke came from another dimension ...

I watched a video on YouTube about the D Wave quantum computer. The guy talked about taking "things" from other dimensions and using them in our own. What these "things" are? I have no idea.

originally posted by: Zelun
Calling it now: it will be discovered that electron-positron pair creation is actually the formation of hyperdimensional toroidal vortex/antivortex pairs. That's what make them charge invariant while their magnetic moment can change with spatial orientation. They just scoot through space along their minor axis in 3 space(spin) and perpendicular to their major axis(charge) which from 3d space looks like an inflow/outflow, respectively.

... of light?

In a wider sense, one can use the word matter simply to refer to fermions. In this sense, the process inverse to particle annihilation can be called matter creation; more precisely, we are considering here the process obtained under time reversal of the annihilation process. This process is also known as pair production, and can be described as the conversion of light particles (i.e., photons) into one or more massive particles. The most common and well studied case is the one where two photons convert into an electron–positron pair.

en.wikipedia.org...

Care to expand on that and share a read or something? Sounds highly intriguing but I could use some help here.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

It's just a pet theory, I'm not aware of any real scientists talking about it, though I can't believe someone else hasn't also thought about it. I'm predicting that what we call "particles" are really certain self-sustaining configurations of what we call spacetime that are like the air vortices that hold smoke rings coherent. Part of the subject of the OP is about how vortex/antivortex pairs form in superfluids which don't dissipate until a phase transition occurs in the medium. I'm suggesting that if this happens on the macro scale in superfluids then it must be a regular occurrence on the quantum scale. They'd need to be hyperspatial because if properties such as charge and spin are to be encoded in the motion of the vortex then they have to be rotationally invariant in 3d space, i.e. a clockwise rotating sphere when viewed upside down is a counterclockwise rotating sphere.

a reply to: Zelun

Before they can do all that we need to understand how mathematics rules the quantum world.

From the article:

The quantum Hall effect has been the subject of several Nobel prizes and occurs in very thin conducting layers that are essentially 2D in nature.

So this phenomena occurs at the minimal environment level we humans are able to detect as matter.
And what did they find?

When such materials are cooled to near absolute zero and subject to a strong magnetic field, the electrical conductance is quantized and can change only in discrete steps.

According to the old hippie string theory, this is because strings on a guitar with different cross sections only resonate into chords at certain fret fingerings.

A good geometric analogy would be a thought experiment where you were trying to measure a precise circumferential entity but only had a Masons compass with a Planck length diameter spread.

Now you and Jack Sarfatti can watch Venus arising from the quantum foam.

a reply to: Zelun

Ha! The alleged Higgs Boson is not amused, you are essentially on it's heels there.

Part of the subject of the OP is about how vortex/antivortex pairs form in superfluids which don't dissipate until a phase transition occurs in the medium.

And I thought it's ultracold atoms in lasergrids and waveguides burned into a glass block. Err... I wanna read that as well, show me!
Anyway. You are right, most of those folks don't speculate much in public. But ...

Our findings pave the way to experimentally probe higher-dimensional quantum Hall systems, where new topological phases with exotic excitations are predicted.

arxiv.org...

The headline for your working hypothesis straight from the second study in the OP, only this time without paywall. Have some fun with that as well!

a reply to: Cauliflower

Now you and Jack Sarfatti can watch Venus arising from the quantum foam.

WTF? Careful! My coffee...

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Sure, well here's the version for the reporters:
www.nobelprize.org...

Here's the version for the grownups:
www.nobelprize.org...

Both from:
www.nobelprize.org...

a reply to: Cauliflower

Yes, yes, and agreed. But it's more like the guitar strings are space, the notes from each string are fermions, and the chords they make are baryons/leptons. But if you play the wrong baryon you get boo'd off the universe.

The proposed is intended to conform with the Standard Model, and merely provide a physical basis for QED that's more intuitive than the Instrumentalist's "shut up and calculate." It may even have predictive power.

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
... of light?

OH! No. Inflow or outflow of electric field lines in 3d space depending on the direction the donut is rotating in 4d space.

Einstein believed the first 4 dimensions were one , Time-Space.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: SkeptiSchism

So do 4d objects contain 3d aspects? If so we should be able to manipulate them right?

Wrong, we can no more manipulate the 'fourth dimension' than a 2D flatlander can visit "Up".

The next dimensions is all around and thru us and yet we see it not. We are spatially locked, just like 2D flatlanders cannot comprehend 'up'.

And yet our very soul exists there, we are already there, literally, and yet we don't even acknowledge our own soul.

I agree with this.

Though, and this is more a thought experiment for me, but I think we are also in that fourth dimension, with our soul, as the programmer, or at least our soul is interacting with the programmer.

I got there by this thought experiment: Looked at very generally, all matter is indeed "matter" only because it has been observed, or will be observed at some later point, by a conscious observer. Wheeler believes there are areas of the universe that have not even collapsed to particles, existing only as a cloud of probability.

That which we observe is collapsed to give us "things" - a physical universe of particles. But, our brains require collapsed electrons to carry the signal from micro-tubules to micro-tubule, and one might say "who is 'watching' the particles within our brain?

I say that "we" are, we're just watching them from the 4 dimension.

Yes, Ive simplified the physics immensely and appreciate elucidation of others, but not condescension, as I know it is greatly simplified. I am not a physicist, just a lawyer who enjoys quantum mechanics and writing fiction on UFOs and the crossover into politics. I get to be an amateur.

I say that only b/c I hate it when I just offer something up for discussion and have people who are scientists or have studied it for years spit condescension down.

My favorite painting representative of the fourth dimension is Dali's St. John of the Cross

www.dalipaintings.com...

originally posted by: Gothmog
Einstein believed the first 4 dimensions were one , Time-Space.

True. I believe they are talking about the 4th spatial dimension, which is apart from time.

originally posted by: Scrubdog

originally posted by: Gothmog
Einstein believed the first 4 dimensions were one , Time-Space.

True. I believe they are talking about the 4th spatial dimension, which is apart from time.

Spatial , derived from the term space....

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Bent the rules of physics, very interesting. Physics must be manipulated, perhaps our other sciences too?

Just a question here.

Is it just me, or do paintings or representations of the fourth dimension sit very heavily in your mind, like they open up more than the "physical universe" into something much much more profound? I don't want to say it is "dark" in my mind, but very definitely deep, unsettling.

Am I alone in that?

This has been going on for a while now

physicists send particles of light into the past proving time travel is possible

I thought there was a rule about only being able to go forward in time?
Apparently these guys sent light into the past?

So... I don't think we should be messing with this until we comprehend the possible repercussions
Maybe they do and we're all safe?

But this could give those Mandela Effect people way more ammo

a reply to: Scrubdog

I've had this theory about ghosts..
That they leave an imprint using emotion, trapped in a moment that determined the direction of their lives, or something along those lines.

I can imagine that a painting can do the same. It doesn't just capture an instance in time, it captures it through the lens of the artist.

Or it's just paint on a canvas?
Whichever you choose

originally posted by: GreenGunther
a reply to: Scrubdog

I've had this theory about ghosts..
That they leave an imprint using emotion, trapped in a moment that determined the direction of their lives, or something along those lines.

I can imagine that a painting can do the same. It doesn't just capture an instance in time, it captures it through the lens of the artist.

Or it's just paint on a canvas?
Whichever you choose

I made this a little unclear, I meant paintings such as Dali's, or computer imagery, which depict a fourth dimension, does that depiction itself weigh heavily upon one's mind.

The ghost theory is interesting. Ghosts are another thing that I just much prefer to not think about, extremely unsettling to my mind.

I can deal with the idea of aliens and abductions, and even aliens coming from different dimensions, but I have a hard time with the two above.

a reply to: Scrubdog

There's a book you should check out, it's called Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid by Douglas Hofstadter. It's a big, fat, non-fiction book all about recursion. It will crawl inside your head and eat its way out!

EDIT: In a good way