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Eurasian Origins for Fully Modern Humans

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posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 11:18 AM
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So, isnt this interesting


Background: After three decades of mtDNA studies on human evolution the only incontrovertible main result is the African origin of all extant modern humans. In addition, a southern coastal route has been relentlessly imposed to explain the Eurasian colonization of these African pioneers. Based on the age of macrohaplogroup L3, from which all maternal Eurasian and the majority of African lineages originated, that out-of-Africa event has been dated around 60-70 kya. On the opposite side, we have proposed a northern route through Central Asia across the Levant for that expansion. Consistent with the fossil record, we have dated it around 125 kya. To help bridge differences between the molecular and fossil record ages, in this article we assess the possibility that mtDNA macrohaplogroup L3 matured in Eurasia and returned to Africa as basic L3 lineages around 70 kya/


Eurasian origin of mtDNA L3 and Y-chromosome DE


A 70 Kya return to africa? Toba related migrations.
That 70 Kya window also has migrations of North American Mammoths to asia, and North American mountain lions into Eurasia, to become african cheetahs.




posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 11:28 AM
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The oldest M and N Eurasian clades are found in southeastern Asia instead near of Africa as expected by the southern route hypothesis. The split of the Y-chromosome composite DE haplogroup is very similar to the age of mtDNA L3. A Eurasian origin and back migration to Africa has been proposed for the African Y-chromosome haplogroup E. Inside Africa, frequency distributions of maternal L3 and paternal E lineages are positively correlated. This correlation is not fully explained by geographic or ethnic affinities. It seems better to be the result of a joint and global replacement of the old autochthonous male and female African lineages by the new Eurasian incomers. Conclusions: These results are congruent with a model proposing an out-of-Africa of early anatomically modern humans around 125 kya. A return to Africa of Eurasian fully modern humans around 70 kya, and a second Eurasian global expansion by 60 kya. Climatic conditions and the presence of Neanderthals played key roles in these human movements.


To me, this is the most interesting [and obvious] point of the link...

In all parts of the world, less developed incarnations of HSs were pushed into the least desirable environs...

So this conclusion would stand to reason...

We see many examples of “missed” archaic hominids during the return migration to Africa throughout the pacific island chains..

Andamanese and sentinalese come to mind...

- Chris

-Chris



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 11:37 AM
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a reply to: punkinworks10

what is a kya? hate it when people throw in abreviations when they never use the full term first.



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: luke1212

I don't know what kya and HSs are myself.



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 12:18 PM
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a reply to: luke1212

70kya

70 thousand years ago?



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 12:20 PM
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originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: luke1212

I don't know what kya and HSs are myself.

KYA = thousand years ago. HSs = Homo Sapiens sapiens = Us.



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Kya means ‘what’ in hindi.
HSS is a building equipments hire company in england

FFS.. use the language!




edit on 12-1-2018 by Pandaram because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 02:05 PM
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originally posted by: punkinworks10
So, isnt this interesting


Background: After three decades of mtDNA studies on human evolution the only incontrovertible main result is the African origin of all extant modern humans. In addition, a southern coastal route has been relentlessly imposed to explain the Eurasian colonization of these African pioneers. Based on the age of macrohaplogroup L3, from which all maternal Eurasian and the majority of African lineages originated, that out-of-Africa event has been dated around 60-70 kya. On the opposite side, we have proposed a northern route through Central Asia across the Levant for that expansion. Consistent with the fossil record, we have dated it around 125 kya. To help bridge differences between the molecular and fossil record ages, in this article we assess the possibility that mtDNA macrohaplogroup L3 matured in Eurasia and returned to Africa as basic L3 lineages around 70 kya/


Eurasian origin of mtDNA L3 and Y-chromosome DE


A 70 Kya return to africa? Toba related migrations.
That 70 Kya window also has migrations of North American Mammoths to asia, and North American mountain lions into Eurasia to become african cheetahs.


Your title is misleading. The proposition isn't about Eurasian origins for modern humans but about a return to Africa for the L3 mutation from Eurasia and more specifically, exactly what route was taken.

The majority of African lineages did not originate from L3 in spite of what the article blurb says. It is the most common outside of Africa though. There are still all of the subclades for L (the actual "fully modern human", L1 and L2 (this one being the most common in Africa) before L3 (which still, originated in east AFRICA).

There is lots of support all over the place for L3 returning to Africa after wandering around, and there IS question about the route, which is what this article is talking about. Trying to infer that modern humans came from L3 origins, as your title indicates, when there are 3 major mutations (again not counting the subclades) and (at least) 90,000 years BEFORE L3 is incorrect. I'm just not sure how you're drawing the conclusion that you stated in your title. It's not only completely untrue but not really what the article is talking about anyway. There are some loose ends in the Out of Africa theory, but this is completely misrepresenting basics about mitochondrial DNA origins.

Fully modern humans originated in Africa, not Eurasia and your article does not support your claim in the title. It's questioning the route taken more than anything, not origins.


edit on 12-1-2018 by redhorse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 07:46 PM
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originally posted by: Pandaram
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Kya means ‘what’ in hindi.
HSS is a building equipments hire company in england

FFS.. use the language!





Except that using KYA(x thousand years ago) or KA ( x thousand annum) and HSS is actually the correct language when referring to Anthropological and Archaeological studies.



posted on Jan, 13 2018 @ 06:40 AM
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originally posted by: punkinworks10

That 70 Kya window also has migrations of North American Mammoths to asia, and North American mountain lions into Eurasia to become african cheetahs.



originally posted by: redhorse
Your title is misleading. The proposition isn't about Eurasian origins for modern humans but about a return to Africa for the L3 mutation from Eurasia and more specifically, exactly what route was taken.


I'd add that cheetahs didn't come from migrating mountain lions. And it appears that cheetahs originated in the Old World somewhere.

A nearly complete skull of a primitive cheetah that sprinted about in China more than 2 million years ago suggests the agile cats originated in the Old World rather than in the Americas.

link

Harte
edit on 1/13/2018 by Harte because: of the wonderful things he does!



posted on Jan, 13 2018 @ 01:44 PM
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Harte,
You need to keep up to date,



The extirpation of cheetahs in North America 10,000-12,000 years ago, combined with a 100,000 year earlier migration of cheetahs out of North America across the Bering straits then down to Africa, produced a series 'populations bottlenecks' where cheetah ancestors dropped to low numbers and were obliged to inbreed, mating with close relatives to survive.


Cheetah genetic bottle necks and american origins

In my original post i omited the greater and approximation signs before the 70kya.

I've read another paper that puts the cheetah migration greater than 75kya and less than 125, depending on the mutation rate approximation.
There is also evidence for an incursion of north american wolves into eurasia during this time window.
Im pretty certain there are also E➡W movements of other mammals at the same time.



edit on p0000001k53162018Sat, 13 Jan 2018 13:53:47 -0600k by punkinworks10 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2018 @ 01:56 PM
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a reply to: punkinworks10

Thats it man. They got it right finally.

And before that migrations were from North and South America. Western proto Europeans came later than the original mass migrations out of South Asia and the Americas.

Africa had constant migrations into and out of it. Modern humans came from elsewhere. Then these people mixed and spread, some to Africa and then back out.



edit on 1 13 2018 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2018 @ 02:22 PM
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originally posted by: punkinworks10
Harte,
You need to keep up to date,



The extirpation of cheetahs in North America 10,000-12,000 years ago, combined with a 100,000 year earlier migration of cheetahs out of North America across the Bering straits then down to Africa, produced a series 'populations bottlenecks' where cheetah ancestors dropped to low numbers and were obliged to inbreed, mating with close relatives to survive.


Cheetah genetic bottle necks and american origins

In my original post i omited the greater and approximation signs before the 70kya.

I've read another paper that puts the cheetah migration greater than 75kya and less than 125, depending on the mutation rate approximation.
There is also evidence for an incursion of north american wolves into eurasia during this time window.
Im pretty certain there are also E➡W movements of other mammals at the same time.



You read the link I gave?
Has that been reinterpreted?
That cheetah was millions of years old.
Can you address the mountain lions changing into cheetahs?

Harte



posted on Jan, 13 2018 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: Harte

Harte,
I have read that, and since the genetic evidence from 2015 clearly shows that african cheetahs are descended from north american animals present in north america 125-75kya, that intetpretation is obviously in error.
The limited fossil evidence suggests convergent evolution of an early asian felid led to a similiar body plan as that seen in todays cheetahs.



posted on Jan, 13 2018 @ 02:55 PM
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a reply to: Harte

The paper I linked to does address how limited population size, extended breeding ranges re-enforced selection produced todays cheetahs from the north american common ancestor of North American Pumas.
It also raises questions an interesting aspect of the ~12-13kya extinction of large mammals in the americas, by implying that all modern pumas are descended from South American pumas that moved into north america after large north american cats were extincted 12kya.❓❓hmmm.


The marked uniformity of mtDNA and a reduction in microsatellite allele size expansion indicates that North American pumas derive from a recent (late Pleistocene circa 10,000 years ago) replacement and recolonization by a small number of founders who themselves originated from a centrum of puma genetic diversity in eastern South America 200,000-300,000 years ago. The recolonization of North American pumas was coincident with a massive late Pleistocene extinction event that eliminated 80% of large vertebrates in North America and may have extirpated pumas from that continent as well.



posted on Jan, 13 2018 @ 03:06 PM
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a reply to: redhorse

I neglected to question marks at the end of my title, asking the question, not stating it as fact.

And it was the authors of the paper that delineated a distinction between "early anatomically modern" and "Eurasian fully modern",


Conclusions: These results are congruent with a model proposing an out-of-Africa of early anatomically modern humans around 125 kya. A return to Africa of Eurasian fully modern humans around 70 kya, and a second Eurasian global expansion by 60 kya. Climatic conditions and the presence of Neanderthals played key roles in these human movements
.

I think there is also a distintion between anatomically modern and culturally modern, and that neanderthal and denisovan admixture gave the early anatomically modern humans the boost to culturally modernity.
edit on p0000001k07162018Sat, 13 Jan 2018 15:07:16 -0600k by punkinworks10 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2018 @ 04:15 PM
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So Africa was a #hole 125kya too?

They went back after 50k yrs and it took 10k yrs to turn it into a #hole again and leave?

Sorry, couldn't help it.

I've heard about that return, so it's settled?

The glaciers forced them south but they still left during the glacial period?

en.wikipedia.org...


The current ice age, the Pliocene-Quaternary glaciation, started about 2.58 million years ago during the late Pliocene, when the spread of ice sheets in the Northern Hemisphere began. Since then, the world has seen cycles of glaciation with ice sheets advancing and retreating on 40,000- and 100,000-year time scales called glacial periods, glacials or glacial advances, and interglacial periods, interglacials or glacial retreats. The earth is currently in an interglacial, and the last glacial period ended about 10,000 years ago. All that remains of the continental ice sheets are the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets and smaller glaciers such as on Baffin Island.


So, people left 125kya and turned into Neanders after 50kyrs, went back for 10kyrs and turned into what?

What went back is my question.

I'm so confused!




edit on 1 13 2018 by burgerbuddy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2018 @ 04:20 PM
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Wish mobile had a subscribe feature

I have a lot of reading to do......



posted on Jan, 15 2018 @ 11:40 PM
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Indohumanzee came from Europe. The devolved and desperate... The manipulative mind replaced physical survival skills. Then they had to get the labor force back from Africa,to support their matrix dependency systems.

Europeans can call theirselves modern all they want.. Devolved. Just like a modern car. Flimsy with a fancy dressing,dependent on high levels of data collection and computation. Except you can't replace a Europeans electronics when the brain goes bad.

Air conditioning dependency is not evolution in a state of global warming.



posted on Jan, 31 2018 @ 07:26 PM
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a reply to: AdKiller

Be honest: how many psychoactive drugs have you taken in your lifetime?




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