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The Historical Reason Why Calling Haiti A %-Hole Really Is Incredibly Racist.

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posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 11:39 AM
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Haitians = race now




posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 11:41 AM
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a reply to: WeRpeons

Trump didnt call any a s-hole, he called the countries.

It was crude an unpresidential, but he is right.

You discuss how poor background checks let criminals from countries with large criminal elemnts get in.

EXCATLY!!! That is why a merit based system and choosing who we let in is a good thing.

You comments about those criminal elements in those countries does not make you a racist.

You then post a bunch of comments from world leaders attacking the head of our country.

Are they now racist against Americans for attacking the person we voted for as our leader?

Of course not!

Trump did not attack haitian people, he said their country was crappy.

He has every right to ask why we take so many people in from these third world type countries, and in fact incentivize it through things like the visa lottery.



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 11:41 AM
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originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: RadioRobert
Given how evil and racist the United States apparently is, it is startling that the amount of people from diverse races who are willing to risk everything to move here legally or illegally exist in the first place.


They come here form poor third world countries and some richer third world countries pursuing wealth and some come here for survival.


Why would you go to the very place that is systemically impoverishing you, who inherently hates you on account of your racial component and chose to depend on them for wealth or survival?



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 11:44 AM
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originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Painterz

Good luck trying to tell the truth here. They are inimical to facts and truth


Who is "they?" If you mean people who can think for themselves and don't rely on social media, the MSM, and bandwagon folks to tell them how to think then I guess you are correct. The reality is there is no truth or fact to his statement being racist. It's nothing more than an opinion. Ironically you post bible quotes all the while passing judgement onto others because "they" don't interpret his statement as being racist.



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 11:51 AM
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originally posted by: RadioRobert

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: RadioRobert
Given how evil and racist the United States apparently is, it is startling that the amount of people from diverse races who are willing to risk everything to move here legally or illegally exist in the first place.


They come here form poor third world countries and some richer third world countries pursuing wealth and some come here for survival.


Why would you go to the very place that is systemically impoverishing you, who inherently hates you on account of your racial component and chose to depend on them for wealth or survival?


Because they don’t perceive what we see clearly. Its too abstract to them or they suppress it into wishful thinking.

And many of them are desperate.

The way the Europeans left many of those countries after colonialism is the reason for their backwardness.


The darker the race, were left the worst


Racism, past and present is still a pernicious poison.



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: RadioRobert

Why would you go to the very place that is systemically impoverishing you, who inherently hates you on account of your racial component and chose to depend on them for wealth or survival?


Because they don’t perceive what we see clearly. Its too abstract to them...


Wow. I think I'm seeing the real racism now...



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 11:55 AM
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Still waiting on OP to respond to my initial post..



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 11:56 AM
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originally posted by: JustaBill

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Painterz

Good luck trying to tell the truth here. They are inimical to facts and truth


Who is "they?" If you mean people who can think for themselves and don't rely on social media, the MSM, and bandwagon folks to tell them how to think then I guess you are correct. The reality is there is no truth or fact to his statement being racist. It's nothing more than an opinion. Ironically you post bible quotes all the while passing judgement onto others because "they" don't interpret his statement as being racist.

You’re so wrong on so many levels.


I deal on many levels not just one, as in this case racial is but one level but a worst one is the connotation that poor countries are scum.

So on a social level that of racism, Trump is dastardly in error.

And on a spiritual level the level that their own religion prompts them to consider, they ignore.



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 11:57 AM
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originally posted by: RadioRobert

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: RadioRobert

Why would you go to the very place that is systemically impoverishing you, who inherently hates you on account of your racial component and chose to depend on them for wealth or survival?


Because they don’t perceive what we see clearly. Its too abstract to them...


Wow. I think I'm seeing the real racism now...


Go ahead explain to us why my statement is racist?

Do you even understand the statement in context?



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 12:03 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

First off lets not forget you said this.


Go to Appalachia and see the massive drug addiction and then travel to Chicago and you’ll see a lot of #holes


So if trumps comments are racist, so are yours.

Secondly, when you talk about people coming here "backwards" because of the rough countries they are coming from, that is exactly the point.

The government's repsonsibility is to the citizens of this country. Their immigration policy should have the goal odf bringing in the immigrants with the highest chance of being prodcutive for the US and easily assimilating.

As you admit, this is tougher from some countries.

So the President asks, why are we taking so many in.

Now having said that, if the President would say the being Haitian means you cant be productive, that would be bigotted and I would call him out for that.

But pointing out that their country of orgin is crappy is not racist.



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 12:06 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

You just said poor people of diverse races coming here aren't perceptive enough to be able to understand the abstractions that you, the enlightened, can.
I think generalizing people of colour and their perceptiveness is racist. Smacks of racial supremacy to me. Isn't that, in fact, far more "racist" than describing a nation state which is only incidentally composed of people of colour?
While you're on the "people of colour are too dumb to realize what's good for them" argument, can you explain to me why you're so gungho they come here to racist America, if, in fact, it really is as oppressive and exploitative and hateful as you say it is?
edit on 12-1-2018 by RadioRobert because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 12:07 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: RadioRobert

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: RadioRobert

Why would you go to the very place that is systemically impoverishing you, who inherently hates you on account of your racial component and chose to depend on them for wealth or survival?


Because they don’t perceive what we see clearly. Its too abstract to them...


Wow. I think I'm seeing the real racism now...


Go ahead explain to us why my statement is racist?

Do you even understand the statement in context?


Ever hear of the Expression "bigotry of low expectation"?



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 12:11 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: JustaBill

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Painterz

Good luck trying to tell the truth here. They are inimical to facts and truth


Who is "they?" If you mean people who can think for themselves and don't rely on social media, the MSM, and bandwagon folks to tell them how to think then I guess you are correct. The reality is there is no truth or fact to his statement being racist. It's nothing more than an opinion. Ironically you post bible quotes all the while passing judgement onto others because "they" don't interpret his statement as being racist.

You’re so wrong on so many levels.


I deal on many levels not just one, as in this case racial is but one level but a worst one is the connotation that poor countries are scum.

So on a social level that of racism, Trump is dastardly in error.

And on a spiritual level the level that their own religion prompts them to consider, they ignore.





Yeah that's nice and I am happy for you and all your many many levels, but nothing you wrote nor any of your levels will change the fact that his statement wasn't racist. You and others interpreted it as racist because it came from Trump. You know what that makes it??...an opinion, not fact. The same as I and others interpreted his statement as truth it is crappy. That also makes it an opinion. However, there is more proof that his statement of it being a craphole is true than there is for it being racist. You're correct racism is a pernicious poison and claiming false racism when there isn't any only tends to water down true cases of racism. Maybe you're so high up on one of your many levels you can no longer see reality.



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 12:14 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell


The way the Europeans left many of those countries after colonialism is the reason for their backwardness.


The darker the race, were left the worst


Racism, past and present is still a pernicious poison.


Spain and Portugal imposed hardships on their colonies and yet never grew rich, while other European countries that never had colonies grew affluent.

There are parts of the world that have been completely untouched by Western civilization that face the direst misery.

Do you believe, for instance, that colonialism is responsible for the continued AIDS epidemic in African countries, or the recent Ebola outbreak?
edit on 12-1-2018 by Wardaddy454 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 12:17 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell
So called christians of the republican party, supporters of the Trump mentality, and how they treat the poor is noted by the universe.

They'll come a time they'll be called to question




Just about every major Democratically controlled city in the US has turned into a s#it hole due to democratic policy.

The left's only reason for pretending to care about the poor is to keep their votes.

Disgraceful, really



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: RadioRobert

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: RadioRobert

Why would you go to the very place that is systemically impoverishing you, who inherently hates you on account of your racial component and chose to depend on them for wealth or survival?


Because they don’t perceive what we see clearly. Its too abstract to them...


Wow. I think I'm seeing the real racism now...


Go ahead explain to us why my statement is racist?

Do you even understand the statement in context?


Ever hear of the Expression "bigotry of low expectation"?



That’s a bit abstract in itself

Saying one does not clearly see ones perspective is not necessarily a pejorative judgment.

Often the very tangible reality of poverty precludes people from seeing things more fully.

That’s a very human trait.


Of course not knowing my own heritage leaves the question open



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 12:24 PM
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First, one thing doesn’t have to be even related to the other





There are parts of the world that have been completely untouched by Western civilization that face the direst misery.


Where are these places ?

considering there is no real paradise anywhere on the planet





Do you believe, for instance, that colonialism is responsible for the continued AIDS epidemic in African countries, or the recent Ebola outbreak?


No direct causation but maybe indirect

I doubt people blame colonialism FOR ALL THE PROBLEMS OF THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES


edit on 12-1-2018 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 12:26 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell

Saying one does not clearly see ones perspective is not necessarily a pejorative judgment.


So your comments are only racially condescending, not racially supremacist. Got it.



Because they don’t perceive what we see clearly. Its too abstract to them... 




posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 12:28 PM
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originally posted by: Painterz

originally posted by: pavil
Here's a story. My Cousin goes to Haiti with his Church pretty much every year to help this one community. For at least the 10 years I've know he's done this even he says they haven't accomplished much. Most of the time when they come back, they spend their efforts just repairing/rebuilding the things for the prior year that have either been not taken care of or plundered by people.

It's like they wait for them to come back and help, he's told me. The 11 months between visits, nothing gets repaired improved ect. They used to send money in the time they weren't there for projects, but when they got there that money was gone and the work wasn't done.

If that's isn't a hole, I don't know what to say. They try to help and over ten years haven't seen much in the way of improvements.





Cool story bro. Sorry your cousin had that experience.

Here's another story. Friends of mine go to Haiti quite often as part of their church work. Twice a year. The Haitians they meet are all kind and generous and hard working and eager to get their country back up on their feet, and they really appreciate the help.


So which of these two situations fairly reflects Haiti as a whole? Answer - both and neither.

In any country there are lazy people and there are hard working people.


But the problem is your cousin has met some lazy people and you and your cousin and Trump and the people defending Trump, have declared that therefore all Haitians are lazy and this is why they are poor.

This huge over-generalization of 'I met some Haitians therefore all are like this' is one of the core logical errors at the root of racism.

I am sure your cousin is not a racist. I'm sure you're not a racist. But people who aren't racist can and do sometimes think in ways that are racist. Because we're all a little bit racist sometimes.

But the important point is to recognise that just because your cousin has had negative experiences, there are lots of people who have had positive experiences.


I'm sure other have had better results. The days of our immigration policy being "lets take everyone in" are pretty much done.

Immigrants that come here now, should have the skills necessary to enhance our economy. I'm not looking to train people, we want skilled people who can support themselves and add to the Country. Other Countries do that and they aren't called racist.

It's not like we have a need for more low or unskilled labor in the US. Those jobs are being replaced by automation now.
If you want a true "Living Wage" in the United States that will entail not having a pool of untrained people who help keep wages down. We have enough of those in America already, we don't need more unskilled labor from other parts of the world for the most part. If we have that need with constant Low Unemployment then yes, that is when we open up immigration to those with little or no marketable skills.

I'm good with Immigration that benefits the country overall. I'm for a limited amount of refugee's as well, provided they are vetted and the amounts are something that we can handle. I'm not good with letting in everyone and saying illegal immigration is ok. If you want to come to this country, follow the rules. The temporary things we did with some nations refugee's were just that TEMPORARY PROTECTED STATUS. They could have applied for a green card if they wanted to stay permanently.

One could contend that for example, the Salvadoran TPS of 200,000 people has had a detrimental effect on their homeland. The Rationale of the TPS for them were the 2001 earthquakes. Would those 200,000 have helped El Salvador rebuild better and faster? El Salvador is a #$#$hole by any measure, that why they came here in the first place. El Savador took back 39,000 people we deported in the last two years of the Obama Admin, they are capable of taking back refugees it seems. It's sure not the Earthquake anymore.

Are lots of Countries messed up? Sure. Should we just absorb their people as a way to "fix" that particular country? NO. We have given LOTS of aid and it doesn't seem to help make things better in those countries. The citizens here in the US on TPS don't want to even go back, primarily because compared to living in the U.S., going back home is going into the same #$#$hole they originally fled from.

Even the TPS "Solution" isn't great. It's now become a junkie fix, they can't do without. Now El Salvador for example, is dependent on remittances from the 200,000 here in the U.S. who supposedly sent 4.58 BIllion ($23,000 per person) back to El Salvador, 17.1% of it's whole economy. Either those 200,000 have pretty good jobs in order to send $23,000 a person back to El Salvador or something is wonky with those numbers. Link

This is just one country and one example. By trying to help, I think we have made the problem even worse in some ways.




edit on 12-1-2018 by pavil because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 12:35 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: RadioRobert
Given how evil and racist the United States apparently is, it is startling that the amount of people from diverse races who are willing to risk everything to move here legally or illegally exist in the first place.


They come here form poor third world countries and some richer third world countries pursuing wealth and some come here for survival.



Ummm...your precisely correct...they come here and form third world countries out of perfectly good cities/counties...and states...

I knew if the hourglass spun enough cycles that I'd eventually agree with you on something...cool that...



YouSir



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