AV,

Man, I hope you are taking your lithium after that tirade.

First of all, as I mentioned previously, I have no clue why you think I am someones "pet". I dont hobnob with the admin, I dont kiss up to them or do anything special for them. Hell, I havent done much with the forums I am mod for yet! (Mainly because I am out of the loop until this tournament is over!)

I rip off 70% of my posts? OK, you make an allegation, lets see you prove it.

Do I post news stories? Yes, I try to make them subjects of discussion. Do I do that for 70% of my posts? If so, no one would have a clue what kind of writing style I had or what points I was trying to get across.

Do I post excerpts from supporting documents? Yes. I make my point and then I DO MY RESEARCH (is that what you are afraid of?) I go out and find not just one but at least 3 sources that confirm and backup my point, and I post excerpts (in a rush, not too many people actually go to the links) and the links so that others can read the document in entirety. Does that make up 70% of my posts? If so, I wouldnt have room to make my point in the first place!

Dude, I never held anything against you, or slammed you, but your characterization of me is rather unfair, and you know it. The main difference is that Im not screaming to the heavens about life treating me unfair.

I have already made one concession to you. If you are still uninterested in debating me, so be it.

William, any chance I can have Illmatic back as a debate opponent? At least he didnt b*tch and whine, and was a very good debator.

The next post on this topic should either be AV agreeing to debate after the sides are reversed or saying he will forfeit.

I have no time, nor desire to referee between you two on this matter. I won't respond to any post other than mentioned above.

Originally posted by IronDragon
I dont hobnob with the admin, I dont kiss up to them or do anything special for them.

What a liar. Don't believe him AV. ID sent us ( admin, super-mods and mods ) a big sum of money.

Look at the sum :

Simon : 25k $
William : 20 k $
BoB88 : 15k $
Super-mod ( each of them ) : 10k $
Mod ( each of them ) : 5k $



P.S : Iron, as I recieved the chocolates, the wine and the cuban cigars, it's ok for what you asked me.

UP, that extra $5K and the extra case of Cubano Cigarilos was to keep quiet... Now how do you expect my Cuban connection to keep supplying me???

Don't worry IronDragon. I've an old KGB friend who's living now in Cuba.I think it can help us.

I see what AV is saying about the debates. Two debates in a row for dragon on the topic of aliens is biased.

William, Instead of appointing the topic to certain members, I think we should hold a poll and let the
ATS members vote on WHO gets which topics.

I also think all information provided must be sourced with links or books. I refuse to read something without a source

I hope you know that. I truly do. I really, really love you all. William is like a father to me and all of you are my brothers and sisters. We are all one big family here. And like all famlies we fight. If you could just treat me like your own then I wouldn't be so juvenile. I feel like the black sheep here and I can't help but noticed that I am not wanted around here. Especially by William. I got to say, that hurts, it hurts a whole lot. I just wish that I was wanted around here. I just wish that I wasn't so hated.

Really when it comes down to it I could careless about the debate. Or who cares about winning. I just wanted to have fun. Like I said earlier, I had fun in the last debate. In this debate I am almost forced to take a position that is not only stupid but absolutely unfair. I think we all know that aliens have visited Earth. I don't need to prove that or disprove that. Nor do I care to. However, I do think that there is a bias. That is what this is all about. It is about favoritism. I don't like that. No sane family member would.

Someone mentioned that expressing a bias in love towards ones family member over all the others was a dangerous position to take. They are right. Nonetheless, love is the ruler of us, not us the ruler of love. So I can't help it that William cares more for Dragonrider than me. Yet I also can't help but feel down because of this matter. Why is it that William ignores me???

Is it because I try to hard to be his friend???

I don't get it. I tried to help him put those hackers in jail and he threw that in my face. I tried all I could and I got blamed by everyone for every reason possible on that matter. With the exception of a few. The point is this:

I am sick of the lies and I am sick of the bias.

Plan and simple

I would love to take this debate and continue it, but I don't care to argue. That is all it will become is an arguement. I would rather just let Dragonrider take this round so I can watch him breeze through the next. Lets face it. We all know he is going to win. For he always does. He is the fan favorite. And I am the outcast who everyone wants to see fall.

Really I don't understand what I did to deserve such treatment. I have one of the highest posting rates on this board. I have been here only since Febuary and since then I have posted over 1400 posts. About 10 a day. Every single one of my posts is from my person and knows not the source of another. Only the few times that I quoted others will you find my lack of work. Even then I put in my fair share of work.

Many people here praise my posts and praise my intentions. You don't know how many people have thanked me for my service here. That makes me feel great too. I only wish William felt the same. I only wish William would have thanked me. I thank you for your service to ATS all the time. I even said that you should get the Way Above Award, cause you should. Only you have gone above any other here at ATS. Only you are worthy of this award William. I have told you that, and praised you for that, but still I hear nothing from you. You just ignore everything I say. I can only wonder why.

Well consider this my hissy fit. Consider this my temper tantrum. I know what it is. It is my emotions. Something I am not afraid to show, and something I am scolded for revealing. Something I have been punished for. Well pardon me for caring. Pardon me for having a heart. I am sorry for being such a load. I always have been and I always will be. The love I give is always forced away. I can only wonder why. It is as if my love hurts. Well it does. It hurts me. Does it hurt you???



Love,
Abraham

Does it hurt you??? Posted by AV

No, cant say that I was agonizing over it... I was just waiting for your opening statements.

Hey, its your choice.

Next please.

Two debates in a row about seismology would be biased to DR....

Hold on....i thought people like us voted for the threads to be used.

I dont appreciate the personal attacks either. So i'd quit mouthing off AV.

Originally posted by David
Two debates in a row about seismology would be biased to DR....

Hold on....i thought people like us voted for the threads to be used.

I dont appreciate the personal attacks either. So i'd quit mouthing off AV.

David you should be one to talk. Out of all the people here you sir show the slightest regard for others feelings, especially mine. It is you who needs to lay off the personal attacks. For it is well known by both you and I that you hate me just for who I am. You told me that you just don't like me and you throw my concerns and compliments back in my face everytime they come your way. So please don't start with me. You should finish with me. Finish with an appology.

(Just one man's opinion, nothing to take seriously.)

Abraham

Shouldn't you just try to do your best anyway, AV?

Why sign up for the debates otherwise?

I don't believe for one second that the contest is fixed. But if it is - who cares? This is only a website.

Now how do you expect my Cuban connection to keep supplying me???

Simple-- order overseas, on-line!! It works like a charm!



AV- I want you to stay. You always present a completely different point of view on threads, one that I most likely wouldn't have considered prior to reading it. It is a good quality that we need to have around.

With all due respect, you are not a black sheep, AV! That is your single perception of an entire website's population, which is just that-- a single perception. It most likely does not represent the view of every single member of this site!


As for the debate..

In this debate I am almost forced to take a position that is not only stupid but absolutely unfair. I think we all know that aliens have visited Earth. I don't need to prove that or disprove that. Nor do I care to. However, I do think that there is a bias.

You're right, you don't NEED to do anything but LIVE! But what if the quality of this debate is so good, that it becomes recognized in some way---- like the end goal. This debate is a small part of a potentially larger progression.

Plus, I think I remember reading we've been getting increased traffic lately. New folks are probably going to check out these debates first. Maybe they want to learn more about aliens. Maybe they don't know as much as you know. Maybe they have lived a conditioned life where
"discussion of aliens" = sign of schizophrenia.

The PRO side tries to convince them to change their minds. The CON side tries to anticipate all of their conditioned rebuttals.

You guys are each representing a body of knowledge. Neither side will be ignored in the court of public opinion.


[Edited on 2-7-2003 by MKULTRA]

I get sick of your whining AV and me having to explain every single little chatroom comment three-times-over to you so that your not paranoid about it. I am nice to the people i like and frosty to those i dont, anyone who sits inbetween gets sugar-coated apathy.

And i dont recall telling you that i dont like you, although i will admit that i wouldnt piss on you if you were on fire.

I thought proving subjects to people was the actual point of the debate?

CHILDREN!

Stop it!