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Ginuwine Refused To Kiss A Trans Woman On Live TV And Now The Internet Is At War

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posted on Jan, 11 2018 @ 06:50 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

Your argument would fare better if you didn't refer to non-trans people as "normal". The implication therein is that they are not normal. True or not...it won't create any meaningful dialogue.


Ah, you mean like Abysha's response?... Don't you see the irony in your claim when we got this response?...


originally posted by: Abysha

If you've noticed, not even the most liberal member in this thread (including two actual trans women) are faulting the dude.

It's manufactured drama on ATS just so you can go on believing the world is shoving itself down your throat when it's really just you guys swallowing your own load.


So Chronico cannot say the word "normal" but it is "normal and acceptable" for a transgender person to make such disgusting claim simply because there are people who disagree with the opinion of that transgender member?...

Not to mention, whether or not every left-wing ATS member agrees with the claim that this man is transphobic, without mentioning the fact that only a few left-wing members responded, we see the left outside these forums do make such claims that men like Ginuwine are transphobic, meanwhile those same people in the left ignore the obvious sexual harassment this man was receiving from someone whom he previously told he wasn't interested in.




posted on Jan, 11 2018 @ 06:58 PM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant
...
I say that because after 9/11 happened, Muslims as a whole have been treated with that same collective judgment crap. Every time a shooting or bombing happened, we would sit around hoping it wasn't a Muslim because of the predictable kneejerk bigotry and the fact that we'd somehow have to answer for their actions. Then one day it hit me: why should I feel like that? I didn't do it & I don't know the ones who did it. They're the only ones who are responsible for their actions so they're the only ones who should accept the blame for them.
...


Were you raised in areas of the world in the Middle East where radicalism is "normal", or were you raised in the western world with different views from those of regions which are infested with radical Islam?

I would say that it is only you, and some people like you, who are labeling everyone as bigots who has a beef with former President Obama bringing Muslim people from regions of the world where radical Islam is "the normal view".

Remember what has been happening in Europe, or do you just want to ignore the violence and increase in crimes being brought to Europe by a very large percentage of "Muslim refugees from the Middle East"?

It is also people like you who apparently want to ignore the violence and crimes being brought by the Muslim refugees into Europe and even in some areas in the U.S.

If you want to play the victim because "some people" would label every Muslim as a "Muslim radical" that is your choice, but I find it ironic how you want to bash "the collective judgement crap", as you called it, meanwhile you are labeling as bigots everyone who doesn't want people from radical regions in the Muslim world in the western world...


edit on 11-1-2018 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



posted on Jan, 11 2018 @ 08:57 PM
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a reply to: Spider879

As far as I am concerned, this singer was the target of an unwanted sexual advance, and the Left should be applauding his standing up for himself. Instead, of course, he's labeled as "phobic". So much for tolerance, or accepting to whom someone is or isn't attracted, or "no means no".



posted on Jan, 11 2018 @ 09:08 PM
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My first question is, what's a trans woman? (That's not scientific). My second question is, what's wrong with not kissing that?.... Should we just "kiss" anybody? My third question is, Why does this matter to you, OP? If you're a/an conservative this ain't "news". If you're a Lib, yeah, I can see why you post this crap...



posted on Jan, 11 2018 @ 09:51 PM
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originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: djz3ro




You're making the assumption that person would be into men? Most transgender Women I know are lesbians or at least bi. I'm not saying this is true.across the board but being Trams doesn't mean you're into men


you have one over me...I know no Trans people. I live in backwards part of the woods...and back here...this trend hasnt caught up...yet.

Anyway...this logic doesnt sound...logical to me...but...I'm guessing logic doesnt play a part.

In any way...I do wonder about what you said...if indeed it's true. Why is that...why would trans "women" (meaning guys that call themselves women now) be more lesbians. Are you saying that sexual preference is somehow determined by their new found gender status ?


Nah, that can't be it. After all, aren't we being told that "gender" and "sexual orientation" are not related? So, the dude claiming to be a gal is still a straight dude, if he prefers women. By the same token, now, is a trans person (male claiming female) who likes guys homophobic, and in denial of his sexuality?



posted on Jan, 11 2018 @ 10:15 PM
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originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: proteus33
a reply to: Spider879

ok so if i a straight man tries to kiss a woman its anything between sexual harassment to sexual assault

a trans gendered person makes a pass at someone who had a previously stated they were not interested then the victim becomes the villian because other person is transgender talk about double or triple standard.

pc needs to be restrained it is killing ommon sense.


If you've noticed, not even the most liberal member in this thread (including two actual trans women) are faulting the dude.

It's manufactured drama on ATS just so you can go on believing the world is shoving itself down your throat when it's really just you guys swallowing your own *sniped*


Only on ATS? Really? Nope, not even close.


People asking me to explain why not wanting to date a transwoman is transphobic. TRANSWOMEN ARE WOMEN TOO. Ginuwine was asked if he would date a woman. That should apply to transwomen too. They’re are women. PERIOD. Can’t believe people are so close minded
— joker/smoker (@_sweetbey_) January 9, 2018

Today confirmed out Ginuwine and Nipsey are both transphobic/homophobic and I'm tired but no suprised. Like I'm just tryna enjoy y'all art but you haaaad to be trash right.
— Sucio (@DREamAboutSimba) January 8, 2018

India definitely has A LOT to learn but she was right to be angry about Genuwine saying he wouldn't date a trans woman, the inclination is most certainly transphobic
— Luke (@LukeAshleyJohn) January 7, 2018

if you have a sexual preference that discriminates against transgender men or transgender women, you are transphobic. this is a fact.#ginuwine
— LGBTQIA #LoveWins (@CityTerrorism) January 9, 2018

source

Then there is this.

Hardly just an ATS issue. Now, glad to see people here are supporting the actions of the singer, in this case, but claiming there isn't an issue here isn't being honest.

I read about this elsewhere, myself. Discussion is all over online on the topic.



posted on Jan, 11 2018 @ 10:42 PM
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a reply to: murphy22

I'm a Lib.



posted on Jan, 11 2018 @ 11:09 PM
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So. It's his choice not to. To hell with social media.



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 02:23 AM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Surprise surprise. Out of all of the things that I've said in this thread, you got triggered by the word "Muslim". And iin typical ElectricUniverse fashion, you completely overlooked the context for my comment. Dude, go headbutt a wall. Your opinion means nothing to me.



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 06:48 AM
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originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: Abysha




And, by the way, no it's not transphobic to not be attracted to a particular person.


So I'm hoping to get your opinion on a new argument that I keep seeing pop up. That if you didn't think the person was trans, and were attracted to them, if you found out they were trans and you instantly lost that attraction it's transphobic.

This in turn seems to have led to some people claiming that transpeople shouldn't need to tell someone before the sexy times and only if the topic of having children together comes up. This one seems to get a lot less support, thankfully.

I personally think it's something that should be disclosed before any action is taken, for a number of reasons. If the person gets violent or abusive, that's obviously not OK, but just saying "Oh, I'm not interested, sorry." seems perfectly acceptable.



i know this wasn't directed at me, but heck i'm qualified so i'm gonna wade in anyway;
the bit you open with is absolutely 100% transphobic, no way to deny it.

i've had dudes all over me before, telling me i'm the most beautiful creature alive, promising me the world in that way dudes do, but the moment they learn that little truth they turn super nasty, and sometimes outright violent.
what else could possibly account for that change in attitude?
it's not like they suddenly realise we're emotionally incompatible or support different sports teams or something - they learn that i'm trans and their fascination turns instantly to disgust.
and that, my friend, is pretty much a textbook definition of what transphobia is.
i don't think anyone's attractions should be policed or whatever, and of course people can change their minds about stuff, but let's call it what it is.

the funny thing about the scenario is i'm mostly pretty uninterested in guys, but i was brought up to be polite.
i never instigate these things, they're always so keen, but somehow i tell them that one little detail and everything is my fault and i've been leading them on by daring to be pretty in public.
yep, transphobia. that's what it looks like.


as to the rest of your question, basically everything Abysha said. it's about safety - because of that specific brand of transphobia, which is a very real and palpable sense in our lives - so for the most part i'm very vocal in my social media presence, dating sites etc, about my trans status, and those aforementioned scenarios only happen when i'm out alone and drunk and not paying full attention these days. honestly for the most part i try not to even engage with random guys in public anymore, because you never can tell just how drastically they'll swing, and i've had some nasty bruises to prove it.


on topic of the thread, i don't think anyone involved handled the situation with any degree of dignity whatsoever, but are we surprised about that with celebrity big brother? of course not. just like we're not surprised about the heinous things the ignorant degenerate crowd on our beloved ats are saying about it.



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 07:38 AM
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a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

that last tweet

how can a sexual preference discriminate ?

you are into what you are into right , so if you are straight you like the opposite sex , how can your sexual preference discriminate against others unless you yourself have specifically stated that you do not like that group or sexual preference
its as if by admission that you have stated your sexual preference as " I like natal females as opposed to , trans females"
how does that make you transphobic when you havent specifically stated that you dislike trans women for beings trans
its just not your preference. Like I am sexually attracted to women , but that does not make me transphobic unless Ive missed something.

for example if a man by default is attracted to a women , but not trans women that makes the man transphobic?
Why ?
How can that sexual preference be transphobic , its their sexual preference , so does that make a gay man heterophobic because he likes men and not women ?


Can someone please explain to me how one persons sexual preference makes them phobic of another sexual preference
by default

Im just curious to know because I dont want to offend anyone down the line
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posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 07:54 AM
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a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

another poster had said should this info be disclosed to possible sexual partners before hand , you know like honesty
is the key to a good relationship

for example , if you did happen to fall in love at first sight with a woman who you later found out was trans and couldnt physically give birth to your child , that would probably break your heart , especially if you fell in love with them , now it wouldnt be the end of the world because you could adopt , but to some people having their own child is a big deal.
But what does it matter right you are in love ?

as for the whole transphobic thing, now a guy , finds out the girl he just happened to meet and likes her , then finds out she is trans, what trans though, with a penis or without , some people would change their mind right there, so its different for everyone, some men will be ok with a girl with a penis , because they may still find attraction and satisfaction, others will stop there, some will be ok with a trans woman, post op and be ok with that others would not its totally subjective depending on your own sexual preference and vice versa for women dating female to male trans humans

I still dont think its transphobic to say no , thats not for me , because it doesnt correlate with your own sexual preference.
Im not bothered about kids so for me if a person looks female has female body parts, acts female and feels female in their own head then they are female for the most part , genetically no , but if you are in love does that really matter?

then it really comes down to are you even up to date with your own sexuality? are you being honest with yourself ?

Sorry im terrible at responding with my thoughts properly apologies ,

I just think if we cant even handle transgender issues how the hell are we going to handle transhumanist issues




edit on 12-1-2018 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 09:02 AM
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originally posted by: continuousThunder

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: Abysha




And, by the way, no it's not transphobic to not be attracted to a particular person.




it's not like they suddenly realise we're emotionally incompatible or support different sports teams or something - they learn that i'm trans and their fascination turns instantly to disgust.
.


its maybe because they suddenly realise you are not your natal sex and that throws them off into disgust
because they wanted to be involved with a woman who was born a woman and not a woman who is expressing outwardly as female but genetically is male
maybe that's just their sexual preference not being met and so they are disappointed. Not specifically being transphobic
they maybe just didnt expect it , they were led to believe that you were a female from birth instead they got something different
As for becoming violent well that says more about their personality and demeanour when dealing with things that upset them not being transphobic specifically.
Again they maybe transphobic and have become violent because of it . there are multiple different outcomes depending on the person
I mean disappointment or humiliation (or the perception of) can lead people to kill in normal situations , so maybe that person was just a sociopath or psychopath and isnt good at dealing with social interactions and they became violent
it doesnt specifically mean they are transphobic.
Humans are #ing weird right we all know this, so when dealing with situations like that it doesnt necessarily mean they were upset about you being trans , maybe just that they got mad because their expectations were not met .

At least you are telling them you are trans so they arent led to believe otherwise and hey if they dont like its on them right ?
Again as always appreciate your input in these threads because its all a huge learning curve for me
because I actually feel that I have woken up from a a sleep in my teenage years and now I am actually learning about proper social interactions and peoples feelings etc and how to be a better conscious human being and udnerstanding that every human is different and we all experience things differently to a degree.
so its good to have your perspective as I dont actually have any friends who are trans in order to get a personal perspective
I only learn from what I read online or from what my gay friends tell me about their relations with other trans people.
I also think that if you tell someone you are trans and they become disgusted, then maybe it says more about them and how they feel about themselves as well , maybe they arent ready to face the fact they were attracted to a trans female and it upset them. Maybe they are angry at themselves because how they actually feel about a trans person , that they are angry because they have to admit it made them feel a certain way and they liked it and its made them angry because tehy have to deal with their own sexual preferences etc adn are forced to admit to themselves something they were not being honest about. Again another outcome

edit because I really wanted to add this, I know you are probably flogging a dead horse by repeatedly answering questions and repeating yourself alot with this topic of discussion. However you are likley one of the only trans people (not the only) on ats who will actually reply and converse and do so in a fashion that is not confrontational , I dont want you to think im being rude or taking the piss in case you have already went over something before. All I can say is that its being taken on board and being learned by me so thanks

edit on 12-1-2018 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)

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posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: sapien82

look, think about the scenario we're talking about here;
dude sees girl. he thinks she's gorgeous, so he talks to her. turns out she's clever and funny, they get on really well and find they have a lot in common. things are going great... but then he finds out she has chromosomes and that is a dealbreaker! this is disgusting, he's been tricked by lying filth!

like can we agree that regardless of the terminology, the dude here is a total douchebag?
it just so happens that that particular brand of douchebaggery is called transphobia.
i can't think of any way to make it clearer than that.
if someone's genetics, or that they were "born female" or whatever nebulous standard of purity you care to name is more important to you than being really attracted to and having great chemistry with someone, that's transphobic. the end.

and like honestly, whatever. i'm not here to try and win over anyone who thinks i'm disgusting, why would i? they can take their small minded ways wherever and have fun with it. i don't want them to waste their time on me and i've got far better things to do with mine. i'm not trying to force anyone to do anything they don't want to.
i'm just saying, that sort of thing kills hundreds of women a year
and the name for it is transphobia.



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: continuousThunder

Yeh there is no debate there , how can you hate on someone for being simply different than you ? i agree with you there is no excuse for hate just because someone is different.

but I think that this issue is far more complex than just saying everyone who doesnt want to have sex with a trans female or male is trans phobic, that is not the case. Its far more complex than that surely because what is cool for one person is not for another , like I said some men would have sex with a trans woman pre op , because they could get a kick out of it , some wouldnt, some would have sex with a trans woman post op some wouldnt

I dont want to have sex with men , but im not homophobic so how does it work like that for me not wanting to have sex with a trans woman ?

So because I dont want to have sex with men Im a homophobe and because I dont want to have sex with a trans woman Im a transphobe right ?

we are flinging the word transphobia around like everyone has a phobia , an actual genuine fear , like arachnophobia
when in most cases its just not what people are into

Just because a man doesnt want to have sex with a trans women when she tells him does not make him transphobic , it just makes him not into having sex with women are actually male by genetics , but that may only apply to a certain number of males. Some males would be ok with it , some may go along with it out of just curioisity
Its a preference not a fear , not everyone is afraid of trans people, some people just dont like have sex with humans who are the genetic opposite sex ,because maybe that is their sexual preference so cant you also respect their choices just like a any decent human being should respect your choices?


but how can someones sexual preference make them transphobic ?
im heterosexual but Im not afraid of homosexuals or transexuals so how can I be called transphobic, If that was the case would I be having a dialogue with you ?

sorry Im just trying to understand this from my limited perspective of this topic



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 10:39 AM
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originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix
a reply to: Abysha



In person, I don't say anything unless it goes beyond buying drinks and flirting. You'll find that most in my shoes follow that same rule of thumb. It's much safer being an open book.


We all do have a right to our tastes and preferences but I don't agree that a man can't be 100% heterosexual if he dates or finds a Trans-woman attractive, that kind of mentality reeks of insecurity.



Really?

Definition of heterosexual



1 a : of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward the opposite sex

b : of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between individuals of opposite sex


2 : of or relating to different sexes


Just because the a Trans person feels the need to "change" their sex doesn't make them the sex they choose in the eyes of everyone else... Basically what I'm saying is a 100% heterosexual still sees you as a man, or vice verse. You can make all the changes you want but to a 100% heterosexual male you are still a guy who fillet you penis and made it into a vagina. That's just a crazy surgery to us, it doesn't make you a woman to 100% heterosexuals.



edit on 12-1-2018 by GuidedKill because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 11:41 AM
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sorry can someone sort out my confusion at least to help me out Im not being sarcastic and not trying to rub people the wrong way Im genuinely just trying to understand thanks

does at any point a transexual person then say Im no longer transexual after transitioning and I am male or female and they identify wiht their chosen sex
and at that point do they themselves become heterosexual and are therfore transphobic by default ?
Or do they always acknoweldge they are transexual and that status wont change.

Also for the sake of this discussion if I was attracted to a female and found out they were transexual but I still felt chemistry with them It wouldnt make a difference , Id maybe be a little awkward if they still had male genitalia , but if I had genuinely had feelings and fell in love with them then id accept it if they wanted to transition completely id be ok with that , im not sure how id feel if they wanted to keep their male genitalia id probably be put off by that because I dont mind my own penis but they arent exactly doing it for me you know they are ugly and weird looking and Im not really into that so Id as respectfully as possible make that clear that I wasnt into that and its not because im transphobic I just prefere female bits to male bits (sexual preference not a phobia )



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posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: sapien82
sorry can someone sort out my confusion at least to help me out Im not being sarcastic and not trying to rub people the wrong way Im genuinely just trying to understand thanks

does at any point a transexual person then say Im no longer transexual after transitioning and I am male or female and they identify wiht their chosen sex
and at that point do they themselves become heterosexual and are therfore transphobic by default ?
Or do they always acknoweldge they are transexual and that status wont change.

Also for the sake of this discussion if I was attracted to a female and found out they were transexual but I still felt chemistry with them It wouldnt make a difference , Id maybe be a little awkward if they still had male genitalia , but if I had genuinely had feelings and fell in love with them then id accept it if they wanted to transition completely id be ok with that , im not sure how id feel if they wanted to keep their male genitalia id probably be put off by that because I dont mind my own penis but they arent exactly doing it for me you know they are ugly and weird looking and Im not really into that so Id as respectfully as possible make that clear that I wasnt into that and its not because im transphobic I just prefere female bits to male bits (sexual preference not a phobia )




As far as how a person identifies, that's dependent on the person. On one end of the spectrum, some trans folk are super into their identity and community so they may always think of themselves that way. While on the other end, you have trans people who "go stealth", meaning they start new lives elsewhere and hide their medical history. Most are in the middle somewhere.

Personally, I don't "identify" as a transsexual any more than a left-handed artist might actively identify as a "lefty" as opposed to just an "artist". My life is not inundated with the topic and I only really think of it when I go to the doctor or read a lot of the ignorant crap on ATS (or from Trump's tweets, lol). I only talk about it on ATS for the same reason somebody with asthma might chime in on air quality issues. I hope to give perspective in exchange for a bit of my privacy.

So no, I don't "identify" as a transsexual. I identify as a mom, girlfriend, witch, hard worker, etc. Waaaay at the bottom of that list, I might add in "transsexual" because it doesn't dictate my life and becomes even less impacting as time goes on.

And as far as your own sexuality, acknowledging that you'd have no weird hang-ups dating women like me, that just means you like women. As far as your hesitation about dating women who might have a penis, that does not make you transphobic; that makes you not being 100% comfortable being around penises, which is totally fine, lol.



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 02:55 PM
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originally posted by: GuidedKill

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix
a reply to: Abysha



In person, I don't say anything unless it goes beyond buying drinks and flirting. You'll find that most in my shoes follow that same rule of thumb. It's much safer being an open book.


We all do have a right to our tastes and preferences but I don't agree that a man can't be 100% heterosexual if he dates or finds a Trans-woman attractive, that kind of mentality reeks of insecurity.



Really?

Definition of heterosexual



1 a : of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward the opposite sex

b : of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between individuals of opposite sex


2 : of or relating to different sexes


Just because the a Trans person feels the need to "change" their sex doesn't make them the sex they choose in the eyes of everyone else... Basically what I'm saying is a 100% heterosexual still sees you as a man, or vice verse. You can make all the changes you want but to a 100% heterosexual male you are still a guy who fillet you penis and made it into a vagina. That's just a crazy surgery to us, it doesn't make you a woman to 100% heterosexuals.




I said that I disagree and I still maintain that notion. Also I don't think you can attach a percentage to being heterosexual, you either are or you aren't. Take note of the phrase "of or relating to different sexes" it's no secret that my outward presentation is of or related to the opposite sex of a man. So if a man who is attracted to women and sees me as a woman and finds me attractive but then later recants when he finds out my birth history I would say that man is more than likely insecure about how others would perceive his sexuality. What I would not say is that that man is Transphobic and I would maintain that he is heterosexual based of his attraction to me as a woman. I have an outwardly appearance and demeanor of a woman which is covered by the definition you presented "of or relating to the opposite sex" my appearance and demeanor are both "of or related to the opposite sex of a man. So in summation many men who like Trans-women are in fact heterosexual.



posted on Jan, 12 2018 @ 03:07 PM
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a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

I think we should pool our resources and get him a t-shirt that says "100% Heterosexual" just to assuage any unintended physical reactions he might get when unknowingly looking a hot trans woman.

'Cause he's 100%, dammit! 100 PERCENT!!!



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