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right-wing or left-wing?

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posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 04:20 PM
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What I've heard about the Illuminati is that mostly right-wing conspiracy theorists believe in their existence. Untill now my general impression has been that the Left is more likely to be suspicious of "The Establishment" (aka: corporations, government, authority-figures) and to suspect hidden agendas, where-as the Right is supposed to be more pro-establishment and supporting of government or Big Business. Can someone clarify this for me? Why would the Right be more inclined to believe in a secret society that manipulates the worlds power structures as opposed to the Left?




posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by chrome_bobcat
What I've heard about the Illuminati is that mostly right-wing conspiracy theorists believe in their existence.


From... whom?


Without breaking out bandwidth killing amounts of links, I suppose if you were to go back in time and apply modern right/left labels to the Bavarian Illuminati and Church/State authorities they conspired against, then yeah...

The Illuminati were lefties. Anarchists actually. Whereas dogmatic authoritarian Priests and Kings and such were righties. I guess.


Untill now my general impression has been that the Left is more likely to be suspicious of "The Establishment" (aka: corporations, government, authority-figures) and to suspect hidden agendas, where-as the Right is supposed to be more pro-establishment and supporting of government or Big Business.

Can someone clarify this for me?


I think you just did. That supports the original framework to some extent, though there's the additional consideration of who the original conspiracy theorists were, meaning those in power. Save me from the people! In other words, Kill the heretics, traitors, and over educated individuals, the people conspiring in shadows plotting the demise of the Church, etc...

The best example (off the top of my head) of an infamous right wing conspiracy theorist in that tradition would be McCarthy. Or if you consider Fascists of any kind to be on the right end of the spectrum then Hitler. Blame the Jews...They're responsible. That's a conspiracy theory from the establishment.

We still have them today. All the time actually. If the President says things are better in the war, than the press let's on that's a conspiracy theory. Blame the press...

Any old diversion and refocus of general outrage will do.

Kerry to ban Bible. Gays responsible for society's ills. Minorities responsible for deficit spending. Secular persecution of Christian majority continues. Lefties want to destroy the family. Hillary wants your guns. Hollywood pushing gay agenda. Colleges are havens for communist indoctrination. Lawyers responsible for healthcare costs. Environmentalists responsible for fuel costs. Secular Jews control the media. Political correctness boogeymen under your bed. Feminist want your testicles. If abortion continues, we'll run out of people. If gays continue, same thing.

It doesn't have to make sense. Or be true. The establishment's target is irrational pre-existing fear in the populace.

But now the 'left" has conspiracy theories too. I think what I just wrote would qualify as one.
And as you pointed out previously, the "people" are highly suspicious of establishment and authority. So it's a balancing act. A tie in many regards. At least as far as agenda driven theories go.

The inequality from my perspective however is in the weight of the messenger. The President has FoxNews, CNN and countless other capitalist driven, Viagra shilling, White House pimping mediums to get his message out that the media is against him.
Go figure. All RANT has is ATS to say otherwise.


And of course, there's the non-partisan conspiracies. UFO's etc. Though some elected officials appear to be more "in on it" than others.

But specifically, you were asking about the Illuminati/ NWO thing, right?


Why would the Right be more inclined to believe in a secret society that manipulates the worlds power structures as opposed to the Left?


Probably because it's constantly pushed from every angle and element of the right's establishment including both the State and Church. Only they and their authority (doing what they say) can save you from being left behind or blown up or having the UN and France tell you what to do.



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 07:41 PM
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I always thought that belief in the Illuminati was more of a Left-wing thing. I was watching a program once where a researcher stated that mostly right-wing individuals believed in their existance and this confused me. I guess the reason is that 'the people conspiring in shadows' are believed to be minipulating the government, the corporations, the churches, the police, the education systems, the media, etc wheras the left has conspiracy theories that these very institutions are filled with corruption from power-hungry tycoons and that they conspire for power and control over the people. Would this be a more accurate description of the fundamental difference between left and right?



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 08:50 PM
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Technically, lefties believe in big government as the most efficient way. Traditional Righties believe in a more loose confederation, less top heavy (not this administration though). People say the illuminati and such want NWO. NWO equals big government, which it seems that the lefties want (dont yell at me, in theory). Therefore i can see why the right would believe in a societal conspiracy and such.



posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 08:58 PM
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Unfortunately it's not as simple as left and right.

Hardly any issue is just black and white, regardless of what most major media outlets would have you believe.

A more accurate political spectrum has four sides, Left, Right, Statist and Libertarian.

Here's a small quiz to see where you stand.

www.theadvocates.org...



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by chrome_bobcat
What I've heard about the Illuminati is that mostly right-wing conspiracy theorists believe in their existence. Untill now my general impression has been that the Left is more likely to be suspicious of "The Establishment" (aka: corporations, government, authority-figures) and to suspect hidden agendas, where-as the Right is supposed to be more pro-establishment and supporting of government or Big Business. Can someone clarify this for me? Why would the Right be more inclined to believe in a secret society that manipulates the worlds power structures as opposed to the Left?


It all really all has little to do with left or right wing. Most people that believe in The Illuminati and other secret societies involved in New World Order conspiricies believe that liberals and conservatives are both tools to the people in this world that really hold the power.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 07:53 PM
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Building on the above, But the idea that the Illuminati are left-wing is the important perception here.

Why? Because it shows you people who are suspicious of changes to our society in the name of Democracy, Freedom, or some such ideal. A good example is South Africa. The Extreme Right Wing is allowed to say in the mainstream media, "We are shocked but not surprised that the ANC (Mandela's gov't) would choose the broken cross on its side for the new flag of South Africa, symbolizing the Illuminati's victory over Christ."
South Africa has gone steadily down hill in the last 15 years, and the White people there believe their government sold them out, to the rich people, not that power went to the Blacks.

So there is a good example of WHY. Because the Illuminati really DO shield their activities behind seemingly 'democratic' ideals.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 08:06 PM
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But it's establishment disinformation that makes people even think the illuminati (as per original definition) are even bad.

Anti-establishment, anti-authority, classical liberal, secular/deist, frequently masonic (brotherhood of man), self empowered intellectuals railing against dogmatic oppression like our American forefathers!

Don't confuse the "illuminati" with the architects of the NWO (which is actually a return to the Old World Order), as they are in opposition.

By the classical definition of illuminati, we are illuminati.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 08:35 PM
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The left and right extremes are probably the tools of the NWO and illuminati. For both the NWO and Illuminati, one thing needs to disappear: Religion. A higher power other than your ruler is the greatest threat to a government. That is why i feel that all these NWO Illuminati or Anti-Christ theories are wholly inaccurate when they try to say that it is some how a ploy by a major religious group or political party that supports religion. The communist or facist regimes are most likely the candidates behind such causes. The right or left is not responsible, individualistic ambition to control the world is behind the two previously stated causes. We are all capable of belonging to such a group, so long as we agree enough with them. If not, like all humans, we'd be stubborn and throw a tantrum because we did not get our way and then leave to start our own group. Humans never change from infancy. We act the same but as we get older we use weapons.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 08:50 PM
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"George Washington was sworn in as the first President of the United States by Robert Livingston, Grand Master of New York's Masonic lodge. The Bible on which he took his oath was from his own Masonic lodge."

The establishment disinformation is from the Illuminati, as is your misleading statement, so in that sense you ARE Illuminati, but I am not.

The NWO, let me guess, that is when there is peace on Earth, governed over by the people of Earth?

Or is it when there are no more NEUTRAL countries in the world?

The American Forefathers you speak of were ALL serving the Old Power structure, as is evidenced by use of Classic (but really, its NeoClassic, whatever that is) art in Washington, DC.
"Most of Washington's Generals were Freemasons"
"The Boston Tea Party was planned at the Green Dragon Tavern, also known as the Freemasons' Arms, and "the Headquarters of the Revolution."
"The Cornerstone of the Capital building was laid by the Grand Lodge of Maryland"

Basically, these people were promised power by the Old Power Structure, and they accepted, after which a very nice and public Revolutionary War was fought to sell the public on the fact that they were fighting for freedom.

With the help of LaFayette, who was a French Freemason, America won! But the power and the money did not change hands.

Just like South Africa, when it got its new government approx. a decade ago, the money stayed in the exact same place, the hands of the Elite. When their was Apartheid in South Africa, who owned the Gold and Diamond mines? The public? Ha. The gov't? Yeah right, it was all owned by the Cecil Rhodes set-up DeBeers company, owned by the Oppenheimer family from the beginning, today the Oppenheimer cousins hold the shared position as Executive Directors of the world's premier diamond organisation, De Beers Consolidated Mines. Who got their start from the largest hand-dug excavation by enslaved Afrikanz, led by Rhodes in Kimberley, South Afrika, where over 20 million of our Ancestorz dug themselves to death in a period of only 15 yearz!
'(OK, maybe not ourZ)

Decide for yourself if these people truly EARNED their money, or conducted grand theft on a massive scale: Lord Rothschild, Cecil Rhodes, any Rockefeller or Oppenheimer (from the last century to see how they 'made' the money).



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 09:17 PM
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The illuminati, and particularly the NWO, are usually presented as socialist global dictatorships that replace 'goodly religion' with an evil one world satanic cult.

In the John Titor story also, the 'American Federal Empire' is a leftist group and the republican powerbase is what struggles against it while the democrats are the ones that are part of it.

I think that the people actually openly pressing for a one world government/nwo in the old days, like H G Wells, saw it as a socialist utopian state. The rightists saw this as an insidious conspiracy to undermine everything good.

Also, the illuminati-nwo fall into the broader category of the evil atheist conspiracy, or EAC.

Uhm, wait, I mean there is no EAC.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 09:24 PM
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heck, just to follow up on what Rant said, Cicero is the original conspiracy theorist I guess.

He urged the senate that a senator named cataline was plotting to overthrown the state. He was meeting in the hills/mountains with slaves and runaways and all type of disrepuatble people and soldiers and what not and planning on leading the mob and an army into the city to burn it all down, destroy it, take over, subvert religion, and morality.

Of course, cicero and cataline were personal opponents also, they were at odds with one another, and cicero possibly benefited from the hysteria.

On the ohter hand, Cataline was meeting with people in the mountains and may very well have been planning something. Perhaps a riot, perhaps just building pressure, perhaps merely gaining political support, proablably not a giant overthrown and installation of anarchy.



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by chrome_bobcat
What I've heard about the Illuminati is that mostly right-wing conspiracy theorists believe in their existence.


This does indeed appear to be case. Illuminati conspiracy theory was actually invented by right wing extremists in the Bavarian government in the late 18th century, but evolved into more radical conspiracy theory under ultra-right-wing nuts like Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco. In the USA, Illuminati conspiracy theory is very popular among fringe right wing groups like militias, Ku Klux Klan, and neo-Nazi organizations.



Untill now my general impression has been that the Left is more likely to be suspicious of "The Establishment" (aka: corporations, government, authority-figures) and to suspect hidden agendas, where-as the Right is supposed to be more pro-establishment and supporting of government or Big Business. Can someone clarify this for me? Why would the Right be more inclined to believe in a secret society that manipulates the worlds power structures as opposed to the Left?


In general, the "right wing / left wing" thing can be summed as (beginning on the far left and ending on the far right):

Communism - Democratic Socialism - Liberalism - Conservatism - Fascism

A couple of ideologies are harder to classify, since they partake of more than one of the above. For example, anarchism can be either communistic (Kropotkinist anarchism) or democratic (DeLeonism). Populism can consist of both liberal and conservative elements, as can libertarianism.

To answer your last question, I would say that right-wingers are more prone to believe in conspiracy theories because they tend to align them with their other beliefs. For example, many are extremely religious, and have incorporated conspiracy theory into Christianity, actually forming a new unnamed cult that isn't really Christianity at all. Secondly, rightists are generally more distrustful of people who are "different": Jews, homosexuals, etc. Rightists feel safe with status quo concepts, or, to quote Nietzsche, "the herd mentality." Societies that have a reputation for secrecy spark the imaginations of such people...after all, if people meet in secret, they may not be following the herd's norms, and that makes rightists nervous.



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