Right Vs Left Conspiracies, viewed through Climate Change.

It has dawned on me that the conspiracy dynamic between both political factions have very stark differences.. differences I think kinda apply across the conspiracy spectrum..

Really a totally different math is being used by both factions.

To highlight this I will use climate change, and let’s just for a minute pretend we are aliens who have no idea who is correct, and let’s ONLY analyze the over all concepts involved..

The lefts conspiracy:

“ A handful of big oil companies have hired a handful of scientists and politicians to to “cloud the waters” about climate change. To stop any loss in sales or from increases to regulations...”

It is short, sweet and to the point..

PERPETRATORS:

You have the potential perpetrators being real people who we could hypothetically track down.

Logistics:

Logistically it is very do able..

We can see if this or that oil company is really paying off the handful of scientists and check donations to politicians..

MOTIVATION:

it’s obviously even short term profitable.. no need to conjure some abstract concept to assign a motivation..

PAYOUT:

It’s just good old fashion greed and the almoghty dollar.



The rights Climate change conspiracy:

“Some mysterious illuminati type group who controls 95% of the media, scientists and government is purposefully pushing a fake narrative about climate change so they can better control us”

Perpetrator:
Well that is WAY DIFFERENT... there is no single person we could point to and place blame.. we don’t know who runs this group or what their motivations are.

Logistics:
Logistically orcastrating a lie that includes 95+% of all the scientists , media and politicians CANNOT be cheap or easy..

Hell, you would need a payroll department that rivaled huge companies like GE or Walmart..

MOTIVATION:

Well “control” is not a real motivation.. it is an abstract concept.

Control what??

What is control??

Control them to do what??

Control them for what purpose???

Pay out:

Hypothetically, there is a payout if a carbon tax is ever passed, but does it even remotely equal what you have spent to perpetrate the conspiracy??

For an easy math example...

If it cost 12 million a month in payoffs, and you can only siphon off 10 million a month from a carbon tax.. then your not making money.. your spending it..

Besides that.. if they run the government and media, couldn’t they just print more money basically for free???

I know this is the mud-pit , but there is some need for facts here as well .
And a logical , flowing progression of information
You seem to be getting too carried away with US politics...

Take a reality check
Relax for a while...
You can pull yourself out of the goo if you try...

a reply to: JoshuaCox

If I were an alien and had no knowledge of this, I could already read your bias on the topic within the first couple points that you make. Your 'balanced approach' to the two sides is ridiculously biased.

Try harder if you actually want to present an unbiased report to the aliens.

ETA: When you have to go to the Mud Pit with such a ridiculous hypothetical discussion, it should be readily obvious to all that your intention is to create a pointless bickering match between people.

Why be so divisive with everything?

a reply to: Gothmog

Yet again no counterpoint..

I’m starting to think you just never have one.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Are you gonna include a counterpoint??

Some kind of rebuttal, maybe???

You know how this works right???


One person makes a point, the other person rebuts it, the original person responds..

Wash, rinse repeat....

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Gothmog

Yet again no counterpoint..

I’m starting to think you just never have one.

Thats ok , I have been under the same belief about you.

Point me to any facts in your OP and I will give you a counterpoint
Promise.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

LOL the only problem is that your 95% of scientist is actually bullsh17. It's more like 76 people out of 78 sample size and not all of them are scientists.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

What’s your point?

Edit to add: You’re not off about the difference... Along with your premise using climate change, I’ve seen parallels present with the ideas of institutionalized racism and misogyny... A problem arises due to hypocrisies... People can use this kind of logic in some cases, but not others...

... and stuff.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

You are overcomplicating the argument.

Some mysterious illuminati type group who controls 95% of the media, scientists and government is purposefully pushing a fake narrative about climate change so they can better control us

Nobody in their right mind has ever blamed the pushing of the theory of anthropogenic climate change on an "illuminati type group." It's globalists, pure and simple. Globalists don't like leaving anything to chance, it increases their risk exposure dramatically. Thus, rather than allowing the west to naturally plateau and, ultimately, stagnate while waiting for the developing world to catch up, the AGW scheme has been used to artificially narrow the gap between the developed and the developing. The developed is restricted while the developing is allowed all the benefits. In theory, this would eventually open the door for the globalist corporations and those holding majority shares to access India, China, Brazil, etc and make trillions more selling to a freshly created middle class of new consumers.

You can't deny certain aspects of what you're quick to ridicule. 6 multinational conglomerates own 90%+ of America's media outlets. Scientists on board with the "consensus" make their livings via corporate and government grants, making them equally compromised as the "big oil" scientists you're grousing about. Those same 6 megacorporations' CEOs are the leading donors to this country's liberal politicians who are pushing the AGW theory ad nauseum.

Well “control” is not a real motivation.. it is an abstract concept.

Not even close. "Control," in this case, is 100% money. Money is not an abstract concept and I double dog dare you to try and make the argument that money isn't a real motivator.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

This.... GW is basically used for a global redistribution of wealth from first worlds to third worlds. Not to mention gives the financial elites complete control economically for all nations. They get to dictate the terms and therefore control the finances.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

But you didn't make a valid point.

Valid being the key word that matters, otherwise a counterpoint is not warranted. A rebuttal to what? Yes, I know how it works, and you're doing it incorrectly.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again...










(since we're using clichés to close our comments, apparently)

a reply to: burdman30ott6

It saddens me that you have approached this seriously. JC will never accept any information countering his opinion, but at this point, I'm sure that you know this.

Good luck, and Godspeed!







(we're closing comments with clichés, I think)

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Then it should be easy to point out where I’m wrong...

Something you didn’t do..

You just claim I’m wrong and feel like that is “enough said..”

Are you refuting that the right side thinks the vast majority of scientists, media and the government are in on it???

Does the right have a super solid motivation I am unaware of???

Is their some magical way that running a carbon tax scam is more profitable than just foreign g up the presses at a mint on a holiday weekend??

This is probably the most biased unbiased OP I've ever seen.

And no, I didn't include a counter point because you're just a hack looking to neener neener boo boo your opposition instead of having an intelligent debate, seeking to learn or persuade. What a novel idea.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Logistics:
Logistically orcastrating a lie that includes 95+% of all the scientists , media and politicians CANNOT be cheap or easy..

And it started so long ago too!

I've read some people who seem to think Al Gore made it up to get rich talking about it and/or trading carbon.

But it was known of in the 1950s. I practiced reading comprehension using SRA cards in 4th Grade during the early 60s. I remember reading about CO2 as a greenhouse gas back then.

Science Research Associates Inc. was founded in 1938.[1] Early on, it had a trade and occupational focus. In 1957, it moved into individualized classroom instruction with the iconic SRA Reading Laboratory Kit, a format that later translated to mathematics, science, and social studies.[1] Commonly called SRA cards,[2] the labs were large boxes filled with color-coded cardboard sheets. Each sheet included a reading exercise for students. Each student would have an independent topic, and would work on it independently of the other students in the class, consulting with the teacher only if they got stuck. The student would then follow up with multiple choice questions. As the child moved ahead, he or she would advance in difficulty.
SRA

The Unchained Goddess (1958)

The Unchained Goddess examines what weather is and how it works. It was the fourth and last film in the series that was produced by Frank Capra, who wrote the screenplay with Jonathan Latimer. Unlike the first three of the films, this film was directed by Richard Carlson, who also appears in the film. The film was televised on February 12, 1958, with a disappointing audience share and many critical press reviews.

Recent commentators have noted that this film exhibits an early concern with climate change caused by human activities.

a reply to: amfirst1

Doesn’t the West already have all of those things???

So you are saying we can’t do whatever we want in Uganda right now??


The whole world is based on the US dollar and the West holds the keys to the printers..


Does climate change increase our military in some way??

The US could single handedly destroy the entire worlds navy’s in an afternoon..

Why again do we need “climate change” to effect other counties lol?!?!

Bullets and bombs have worked remarkably well the last century.



Also what do they want to control about their economies?? Doubly that we can’t do now.

People don’t do things for abstract “control”.. they do it to dominate “X “ oil reserve, or gain “ Y “ chunk of land, or take whatever resources... or install whatever puppet dictator..

People do things for ) especially things that require massive logistical planning and resources) defined targeted reasons.. ..


What do they want to control the economies of 3rd world countries for???

You think they are dirty, so you are applying a crime and motivation..

You are not finding a crime and motive and then deciding the person is dirty..

a reply to: JoshuaCox

The same Corporatocracy that runs the media, political apparatus, central banks, military industrial complex (global hegemonic empire known as the "United States"), the international drug trade, is the same thing behind this. Note the cabal of "interests" as good as owns the energy too. We're hooked on it and they have all the media so its not like it hurts them any to trash themselves for one side. Because what its really all about is keeping us all divided split straight down the middle so we wont ever rise up in the face of their unending global consolidation of power and resources. And to run that agenda there's no lows they wont stoop to as we've seen with the modern weaponized Identity Politics they unleashed on our society right at the Occupy Movement protests no less.

But hey if its easier to go "well since its easier to point to a few corporations instead of the hidden hands behind the many, then thats all we should think about", well good luck with that.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Awesome post. And that my friends is the crux of the situation.

It's definitely a conspiracy. If we were scientists we would use Occum's Razor to get to the point. I might have spelled Occum wrong, but you get the drift. Occum's razor basically states that the simpliest explanation is usually the correct one where as the more convuluted and complex it becomes the more unlikely. This principle is extremely relevant to conspiracies.

What is more likely that Big Oil and Coal and Combustion engine and power companies are putting forth propaganda so that they don't lose money or that most scientists in the world are lying to us. Seriously. What is more likely?

Right Vs Left Conspiracies, viewed through Climate Change.

Left wing. Oh my god were all gonna die if we don't create a tax scheme to save the planet.

Right wing tells the left wing to Get a clue.

Climate change is nothing more than the social engineering failing on a global scale.

Geo engineering.

The left wing has spent over $22 trillion on the war on poverty alone in this country.

Imagine what they will spend if they get their little way.

And will have nothing to show for it.

a reply to: neo96

But that's too simple of a response.

Be honest with me for a minute. If I see a statement from NASA and a couple of other scientific organizations telling me that this is the Hottest year on record and that climate change/global warming is real. Shouldn't I consider what they're telling me? Taken a step further, I don't want any new taxes. So who should I believe. Keep in mind, that I don't like Al Gore also. LOL His wife tried to take away my heavy metal music int he eighties.