Cliven Bundy walks free as federal judge dismisses Bundy Ranch standoff case

a reply to: Boadicea

Boadicea, this is exactly why maintaining our civil liberties is so important. Not dividing down party lines and seeking to limit the civil liberties we dislike or those enjoyed by followers of a political ideology we don't like.

An armed and united society can overcome any tyranny or invasion nightmare scenario one can dream up. A divided, disloyal, disarmed and distrusting population could be toppled easily by those same adversaries.

Divided we fall, together we're strong indeed.

a reply to: Boadicea

Now he need's to run for political office, that would really put the wind up those crook's, I am not stateside but from what I have seen that is exactly what they were for the way they treated people in such an illegal fashion against the law's of your own nation and in breach of your constitution.

Also He probably has the potential to take them for damages but it would be an even longer case to do so and he may not win unless he does run for political office, assuming they have not framed him in such a way as to stop him from running for political office since he would after all not be under there control and would not be a proxy for the corporation's whom have been performing a silent but protracted coup in your nation before it came to this point through political bribery, undemocratic manipulation and abuse of power over a very long time indeed before accelerating there takeover of your government in the past 20 years or so.

Very good luck to the man and I hope he and his family yet see justice, something tell's me that this is not the end of the matter because even if the crook's do back off he most certainly now will not as they have shed his family's blood in a most heinous act of murder that was obvious to the whole world - except a hand full of what you would probably call shill's on this site.

a reply to: ShadeWolf

Oh how this hurts my heart!

I understand why you feel this way... I understand that it's not without good reason... but this hate for our fellow Americans is part of the problem. Especially when we direct that hate at those who are taking on Big Bad Govt and their abuses.

The Feds are out of control. They regularly abuse their power and authority against us in the worst way -- ALL OF US!!! They do so according to circumstances and needs and weaknesses. But they get us all, one way or another. And we only serve their purposes when we allow them to divide us... If we all stopped playing "my pain is worse than yours" and other silly games, and actually talked to each other with respect and courtesy and an open mind, we could find common ground and agreeable solutions for the greater good for all.

And ya know what the really sad part is? From all I've seen, Cliven Bundy understands this and would be the first person to stand up for anyone else's right to protest and to protect and defend their life from government. He wouldn't care what color their skin is. He would see a countryman being violated by the same government he's been violated by and come to his defense and support his rights.

And that's why he scares the bejeezus out of the PTB.

a reply to: JBurns

Thank you! It's so good to know I'm in good company

I just really wish I knew how to explain it so others see what we see -- or at least find a middle ground to start to build something better. We've become so conditioned to think and expect the worse of each other... we blame the ones with the least power and ignore the real corruption and corrupted critters. It's so very frustrating.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Boy, you said a lot and you said it very well -- thank you!

That's a very intriguing idea about Bundy running for office. I don't see anything stopping him legally from running. And I daresay he may very well win. I have no doubt that most Nevadans have more respect for Cliven Bundy than for the Feds in these parts. I can almost guarantee it

As for a settlement, I'm sure federal critters are already working on a settlement offer and hoping and praying that Bundy won't be ornery and stubborn and refuse it. Cliven's a pittbull! I could see him demanding a jury trial. But the Feds can't afford that -- can't afford full discovery. There's no coming back from this. Especially not in the current political climate, and with all the major scandals already plaguing the DOJ/FBI, not to mention the BLM.

a reply to: Boadicea

To all those of you who were talking smack...stick this in your pipe and smoke it!

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: Boadicea

To all those of you who were talking smack...stick this in your pipe and smoke it!

My dad used to say that... I think he'd very much approve!

You're the second poster who has made me think of my dad...

Dismissed with prejudice.. As I said in another thread.

However this does not mean what the Bundy's did were lawful. It means the prosecution screwed up so bad they sank their own case that they most assuredly would have won if not for their case of rectal-cranial inversion.

a reply to: Boadicea

Good, these people were getting the shaft. Nice to know a judge had some common sense and dropped the case. Now we need to start investigating the officers and others who tried to screw the Bundy's over.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

However this does not mean what the Bundy's did were lawful.

Maybe... maybe not.

It means the prosecution screwed up so bad they sank their own case...

Definitely.

...that they most assuredly would have won...

I don't know about that. The prosecution couldn't get their conviction at the first trial either. In fact, I'm not even sure the mistrial declared after the first trial failed to produce a guilty verdict was even lawful or correct. I think there's a real good chance that the jury would have acquitted if they were fully aware of the threatening and even violent activities of the Feds prior to the standoff -- hence the need for the Feds to try to hide that evidence from the court and the jury.

I don't think the Feds even believe they have a legitimate case, and all based on their own prior behavior.

...if not for their case of rectal-cranial inversion.

Most definitely!!!

originally posted by: Aegeus
a reply to: Boadicea

Good, these people were getting the shaft.

Yes, they sure were! And had been for a very very long time.

Nice to know a judge had some common sense and dropped the case.

I'm still trying to figure the judge out. She knew that evidence had been withheld all along... she granted the prosecution's motions to withhold evidence! So while I'm very relieved that she did make this decision, I'm still trying to understand what changed for her...

Now we need to start investigating the officers and others who tried to screw the Bundy's over.

Hopefully, that's already happened. AG Sessions has called for a "review"... we'll see where that goes.

a reply to: waypasthadenough

Thank you for the link! Good to see others paying attention... and remembering LaVoy Finicum. This ain't over yet.

And welcome to ATS! (I got to give you your first star )

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: waypasthadenough

Thank you for the link! Good to see others paying attention... and remembering LaVoy Finicum. This ain't over yet.

And welcome to ATS! (I got to give you your first star

)

Lavoy Finnicum's case is not anything like Bundys case. The facts surrounding Finnicums death, along with the video footage, makes it clear law enforcement actions were justified in that encounter. The FBI agent who was indicted for lying stems from his statement he never fired his weapon when in fact he did and if I am not mistaken that lie was given to State law enforcement who was responsible for investigating that incident.

Absent any info that shows more officers / agents lying I dont see any cases being brought except against the agent who lied and even then it would have no bearing on the incident itself.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Lavoy Finnicum's case is not anything like Bundys case.

Um... yeah... Finicum's dead... killed in cold blood at a deadman's roadblock. No criminal charges for him, eh? Dead men tell no tales, right???

But as to the merits, I strongly disagree. In both cases, misuse and abuse of force by Federal officials is a major factor. It's not a coincidence or an accident that the evidence withheld -- and which caused the mistrial -- had much to do with prior intimidating and threatening activities by the Federal agents. It was exactly that information that the Feds did not want the jury to know, or consider in their deliberations. They did not want the jury to know that their own bad behavior gave both the Bunkerville and Oregon standoff members reason to fear for their life and limb.

Obviously, the authorities want us to think/believe/agree that they can use whatever force -- even lethal force -- they wish against the people and that we just have to take it... and the people are very loudly and proudly saying "Hell NO!!!"

The facts surrounding Finnicums death, along with the video footage, makes it clear law enforcement actions were justified in that encounter.

No, it does not. Not at all. In fact and in deed, the Feds created a trap in which there was no way LaVoy was coming out alive, because they made darn sure that every officer there was in danger, and therefore "feared" for his life.

And they did so at a time when they knew that LaVoy was on his way to a meeting with a duly elected Sheriff. They could have -- and SHOULD have -- worked with that Sheriff and others for a peaceful resolution. The deadman's roadblock was neither their only option nor their best option. It was a despicable and unconscionable display of abuse of power on steroids.

The FBI agent who was indicted for lying stems from his statement he never fired his weapon when in fact he did...

Let's be a little more specific -- and truthful -- shall we? The FBI agent was indicted for lying about firing his weapon AT LAVOY FINICUM and then HIDING those shells from investigators.

The FBI agent shot at LaVoy Finicum before LaVoy even had a chance to get out of the vehicle, thus -- again -- putting EVERYONE's life in danger. And in response, LaVoy put himself into the line of fire to protect everyone else. Unlike the cowardly and murderous soul of that FBI agent, LaVoy had a hero's heart and the courage of a lion.

...and if I am not mistaken that lie was given to State law enforcement who was responsible for investigating that incident.

He also lied to FBI investigators.

Absent any info that shows more officers / agents lying I dont see any cases being brought except against the agent who lied and even then it would have no bearing on the incident itself.

Given that we know that other agents testified at the grand jury hearing, but we do not -- and most likely -- will not see that grand jury transcript for some time, we have no idea what other officers did or did not testify to. We have no idea what will come out in his trial. Nor do we know what the Finicum civil attorneys will come up with. It's possible that someone can and will make a case that it was those two shots which created the perfect storm that led to Finicum's death. As I understand it, there is no statute of limitations on murder.

a reply to: Boadicea

A traffic stop was initiated and Finnicum didnt comply with commands and shots were fired. Finnicum then fled that traffic stop leading officers on a high speed pursuit with adverse conditions. He then failed to stop at the road block, instead trying to drive around it and coming close to hitting an officer. He again failed to comply with verbal commands. He got out of his vehicle while ignoring verbal commands. He reached for a weapon after ignoring verbal commands.

While I understand the views about this shooting everything must be taken into account. That totality of circumstances starts not with the initial traffic stop but the moment Finnicum arrived in the state and at the scene of this mess. That includes being interviewed on tv while being armed while stating he would not be going to jail.

Those comments played directly into the way law enforcement planned his apprehension. Finnicum, at ANY point of HIS choosing, could have ended the situation peacefully and at several points prior to his being shot and killed had ample opportunity to do so.

A loss of life is always the last outcome anyone wants however the actions of just one side cant be viewed while ignoring the actions of the other parties involved.

As for the agent lying he has already been indited and rightfully so. However his actions, discharging his weapon and given totality of circumstances, was legally justified. My point though is the lie he told had no bearing on the incident or its outcome. It is like the issue with General Flynn. He was charged with lying to the FBI over his contact with Russia. In the end we find that he broke no laws talking to Russia so there was no need to lie. Flynn's lie has absolutely no bearing on the Trump-Russia mess.

I use that as an example in hopes it better demonstrates the point im trying to make. Aside from the criminal charges the agent faced he is done with law enforcement. No prosecuting attorney will bring a case that he is involved in. He is toxic to any case he touches, whether its as lead agent or as simple as holding evidence and handing it off to an evidence officer.

I know people have strong feelings with this case and thats perfectly fine. I am only trying to explain the side no one really wants to look at or understand (not necessarily you as we have had this conversation in other threads).

In general grand jury proceedings are restricted and are generally not released to the public.

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: Spider879
Great example of wy privilege,

originally posted by: magnetik
WHITE PRIVILEGE

That's really sad that's all you can see here. And I can only assume that you really don't know the situation and issues involved.

There was no "privilege" -- White or otherwise -- for the Bundys and the many many others who have been bullied and beaten by Federal agents/agencies. It's all about abuse of power. The same abuse of power used against so many people of all shapes, sizes and colors in so many ways.

I respectfully disagree, these guys pointed guns in LEO's faces, imagine an AA group or a group with an Islamic sounding name , you honestly believe it would had ended as it did..be 100% With me now, and this is regardless of whether you think they were in the right or wrong in the first place.

This is what comes of watching the msm. People actually believe the drivel put out by the likes of CNN and MSNBC.
How many hours of coverage did this incident get when it happened? Probably hundreds.
How many minutes of coverage did the dismissal and the judge's words of condemnation get on msm? Probably less than five minutes total. Did they take the time to expose the wrongdoing by FEDERAL EMPLOYEES of SEVERAL DIFFERENT AGENCIES in a conspiracy to take down the last rancher in Clark County?

DENY IGNORANCE. You would do well to put aside your race/religion baiting and look at some facts. The Feds don't care what color or religion you are if they decide to take your liberty.

a reply to: Xcathdra
The Feds were messing their pants in fear against these American citizens. They wanted ALL of them silenced and were willing to kill them to get their wish. In light of the admitted "kill list" held by the BLM agent, I would think that it would be obvious to even the casual observer that this was a conspiracy of governmental agencies from the get-go. radiofreeredoubt.com...

You can attempt to pretzelize yourself all you wish to "justify" the cold blooded murder of a citizen but in view of these revelations, it just makes you look like a promoter of tyranny of government.

Every last man involved in this series of fiascoes should be tried for conspiracy to commit murder and theft. Simply exposing them and getting them out of law enforcement isn't justice.

a reply to: diggindirt

and yet only one person died because he refused to follow commands. Doesnt really support your doomsday scenario now does it...

I dont have to justify anything. That was done when Finnicum chose the course of action.

The end result was chosen by Finnicum and no one else.

As for your last comment I agree however reversed. Every person involved with Finnicum and Bundy should be charged for Finnicums death for forcing the situation.