WaR CRiMeS in the Name of Freedom: 227 Years 4th july...

Lurking on the net, i found this, well i thought why not share it with ATS to see their opinions?


�Great power imposes the obligation of exercising restraint, and we did not live up to this obligation.� That according to Leo Szilard, the Manhattan Project physicist commenting on the United States and its decision in August of 1945 to obliterate non-military targets Hiroshima (70,000 dead instantly with 210,000 total deaths) and Nagasaki (40,000 dead instantly with 200,000 total deaths) in Japan. When the United States of America takes its place in the graveyard of empires, its tombstone will display Szilard�s words alongside the inscription, �Born in violence, practiced violence and came to a violent end.� Americans fancy their society as a peaceful, freedom loving enterprise when the reality is that Americans are brutally competitive and adversarial in every aspect of their lives. And they are warlike to the core. Is it any wonder that in America, the easiest act for the US government to carry out is war?

As Americans prepare to celebrate their Independence Day this July 4, 2003, with a grandiose glorification of ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan�and wars from days past--it�s worth remembering those millions of civilians and/or non-combatants who have died at the hands of unconstrained and psychopathic American power. The US government has a long history of reengineering and downsizing populations that get in the way of freedom loving Americans and their business interests. Each and every American has the blood of the world on his/her hands. And freedom is going to get even bloodier as history, it turns out, is an excellent guide.


Rest of the article:
www.altpr.org...


[Edited on 1-7-2003 by CoLD aNGeR]

imagine a terrorist strike on some national monument onn the fourth of july...
can only guess what bush would do after that...
how would you american people here feel about it?

OK I agree that the yanks get in a helluva lot of fights (since world war 2 we have Gulf war 1 & 2, Afghanistan whilst the Sovs were there and post-9/11, Vietnam, Beruit, korea, the Stand off with the Soviet bloc, grenada, panama, etc) but the people themselves are a friendly open people, its their bloody GOVERMENT that is the problem. the US goverment is willing to start wars, but a lot of americans that i have met hate war (rightly so).

I guess what i'm trying to say is that the americans aren't as bad as they seem, its just the actions of their goverment that gives them a bad reputation

Originally posted by TheSwordMaster
imagine a terrorist strike on some national monument onn the fourth of july...
can only guess what bush would do after that...
how would you american people here feel about it?

They will support more the anti terrorist political idea, they will agree to increase the national security, to cut the rights in the constitution for "their own good", they will use the TIA and the Intelligence agencies to spy on the citizenship, also to make patriotism a tool of blindness.
People will also agree with the policy of the goverment keeping the "terrorists nations" under attack...
People will follow their agenda like blind sheeps, as always, the people aware of it, will be named as the crazy people, paranoia, liars, whatever unless take them seriously, because they are too brainwashed with the society itself...
And it is not just america, it is all over the world, but america is getting the principal part this time...

Originally posted by Daystar
I guess what i'm trying to say is that the americans aren't as bad as they seem, its just the actions of their goverment that gives them a bad reputation

Of course i understand that as well, is like say that
ALL THE PALESTINIANS are terrorist
ALL THE JEWS ARE ZIONISTS

Or that Aznar represents the spanish nation, or berlusconni Italy...

Goverment never represents people, but people of other nations, makes that mistake thinking about their goverment (WHY???? because suposly that is democracy, which will mean that the majority voted for that goverment) so when somebody thinks about a country they will all first compare the goverment with the people as the same...

But i know the difference don�t worry, the problem is the people that doesn�t...

so the answer is education for the populace, but how do you beat the national 'education' systems in the US, UK etc. that are so well in place? as i have said before i pity our american friends who are taught that their house and car are the extent of their world

Originally posted by Daystar
so the answer is education for the populace, but how do you beat the national 'education' systems in the US, UK etc. that are so well in place? as i have said before i pity our american friends who are taught that their house and car are the extent of their world

Not just the education system, just think about it, people getting the right education in the wrong system-society will be a bad equation.

Look at this quote from the article:

"War has always diminished our freedom,� says Zinn.


�When our freedom has expanded, it has not come as a result of war or of anything the government has done but as a result of what citizens have done. The best test of that is the history of black people in the United States, the history of slavery and segregation. It wasn't the government that initiated the movement against slavery but white and black abolitionists. It wasn't the government that initiated the battle against racial segregation in the 1950s and 1960s, but the movement of people in the South. It wasn't the government that gave the people the freedom to work eight hours a day instead of twelve hours a day. It was working people themselves who organized into unions, went out on strike, and faced the police. The government was on the other side; the government was always in support of the employers and the corporations.
The freedom of working people, the freedom of black people has always depended on the struggles of people themselves against the government. So, if we look at it historically, we certainly cannot depend on governments to maintain our liberties. We have to depend on our own organized efforts.�

Only the American people can stop war. "

You see what i mean?

only the american people can stop war. this means that they need to break away from the goverment propaganda and just say no! they need to change the US society and education - overhaul the entire goddamn system. unfortunately, most politicians feel that they're above evryone else. EXAMPLE; tony Blah of the UK ignores calls for a referendum on the UK joining the Euro, but the people want a vote

so the politicians wont listen to the people... the people have an uprising, and due to their past blind patriotism, they have given the goverment an almost unbreakable grip on them. the would be a terrible price in lives if they were to have a second US civil war

Originally posted by Daystar
the would be a terrible price in lives if they were to have a second US civil war

Would be better than what it is now?
Or when is over will it be better than now?

I think the only way to up rise again is that, it is needed not just in the US but in the whole planet, assume political corruption like we do is just an insult to the logica, everybody already thinks all the politics are related with the national corruption...

This has been going on for far too long, and there is some still trying to believe them, defend or celebrate traditions against any kind of logica...

trouble is CA, many people want peace, even to the point of putting up with intolerable amounts of BS.

Interesting point -
"Would be better than what it is now?
Or when is over will it be better than now?"

On that i would say that if the US was to have a revolution it would be to the general good of the world, but then what? there will always be someone else ready for a chance to have a shot at world domination! example; The British Empire reached its peak in the period between WW1 and WW2, it was the most deadly nation on the planet until WW2 when fighting against the Germans and the Japanese, two superpowers in their own right and indeed fighting on a global scale, took its toll. my theory is the US saw an oppurtunity, they took it. think about it - the Japanese hit pearl harbour not the Germans! whereas the Sovs were hit by the Germans and only went to war with them. the result is that today the US military has bases all over europe even though the germans are now allies and the Soviet bloc has crumbled. they took the oppurtunity in europe and now they have an entire air force (USAFE) stationed here. so my point is there will always be someone else...

Targeting all the blame for agression in the past 200 years on the US really isn't considering all aspects of the story. I don't think any of you can really cry over the toppling of Saddam Hussein or the Taliban (to use two recent examples). Like the US or not, I can't see any way to deny that the world is a better place without those two regimes.

" That according to Leo Szilard, the Manhattan Project physicist commenting on the United States and its decision in August of 1945 to obliterate non-military targets Hiroshima (70,000 dead instantly with 210,000 total deaths) and Nagasaki (40,000 dead instantly with 200,000 total deaths) in Japan. "

Hour : 7:53 AM
Date : December 07 1941
Place : Pearl Harbor

www.ibiscom.com...

www.ibiscom.com...

oh dont get me wrong the world is a better place without those regimes i am just saying that the US goverments arent the caring MFs that they claim to be

So CA do you support the Arab terroists? Do you support madmen killing innocent Americans?

If we never bomed the Japan even if it as civilian targets, that war would not have stopped. The Japs would keep fighting until they ran out of supply and swam the Pacific with Samari swords and invaded Californa.

Come on CA we need these wars to stop the madmen like the Commies and the terroists.

Unbelievable!! Without the wars we a fought,there wouldn't be an Indepedance day.Things would have been far differant for America.Imagine if we had lost to the British,or the Nazi's,Japan,Russia in the cold war.
Because of the sacrifice of our military in our wars this moran can write this kind of junk.
There is no mention of crimes commited by the countries listed above.You know,the millions of Jew's killed by the Nazi's,or the Chinese killed by the Japanese,the millions killed under communist Russia.
He makes sound like this the only country to go to war.When the fact is,most of the wars we were involved in were started by other countries,we came in and cleaned them up.
This 4th of July I will be out with my family celebrating,our great country.Rembering the people that have died making this a great country.

I agree. I love it how some people over look nation who actualy commited genocide like Germany under Hitler. Or the Chinese. Stalin killed I think nearly 20 million. Those people "mass murdered" by the USA died in wars. They died from a war. In a war people die.

This July 4th I too will celebrate the greatest nation of Earth's birthday and be proud of it.

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR
As Americans prepare to celebrate their Independence Day this July 4, 2003, with a grandiose glorification of ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan�and wars from days past--it�s worth remembering those millions of civilians and/or non-combatants who have died at the hands of unconstrained and psychopathic American power.

And it's worth remembering that the whole planet would probably be dead by now without American power.

*sigh* Extremists. Where's their logic?

Maybe the world will figure out, that on july fourth we celebrate the fact that it's not a good idea to F*ck with us.

*ducks and runs from liberal apples and cabbage*

The problem I have is that most people seem to think there is no middle ground. It's either kill all our enemies or get killed. I don't agree with dictatorships like Saddam killing but I don't agree with the US Government either. The way I see it they are both evil, and I'd just as soon celebrate Saddam Genocide day as July 4th, as they both celebrate death in one way or another.

It is not celebrating death.It is celebrating freedom.Sorry but I don't see anything wrong with the celebartion of our countrys independence.