Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

kitchen appliances falling out of the air sounds like mass hysteria too me. phantom airships can easily be mass hyateria, people vastly ignorant in aircraft and science in general at the time mis identifying airships and via high emotional states exaggerating or being more impressionable with what they witnessed. most eople even today see things that can be explained by experts and immediately jump to the conclusion of magic and or things like aliens or interdimensional entities.

but I also agree that there is more going on than just advanced classified aerospace.

my theories aren't intended to explain 100 percent of what's going on. a percentage of the phenomena is unexplained currently to science and is for the moment paranormal. (im hoping vallee can crack that nut with his research)

like you, I believe that that phenomena will be explained by science and turn into a vast, powerful and immensly useful field of applicable science for humanity. a game changer once come into fruition in my opinion. you and I simply disagree with the degree to how much percentage of the observed phenomena rests in my category of explanation and how much of it rests in your explanation.

I believe in the brain being sensitive to, interactive with and suceptable to quantum EM waveform as you and I have discussed on more than one occasion and that leaves lots of room available for even more interesting things to be true that would rest firmly in the domain of your theories such as parapsychology, human antennae, telepathy, remote viewing, manifestations, psychokinesis, elementals and tulpas.

remember I'm not a disbeliever in that stuff. I've had my own experiences including that out of body/psuedo remote viewing experience and I don't believe the mechanism behind it is aerospace related unless tangentially.

in some ways we're arguing Apple's and oranges with each other. but damn you and I have amazing thought provoking, and truly enjoyable conversation together. which is why it's always a pleasure to talk with you.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

indeed we do.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Unless we are don't know some very basic things about physics yet,
and that is pretty much certain.

well, we do know some basic things about physics, such as e=mc2. not sure how our ignorance of the nature of dark energy and dark matter calls this into question

We don't know what 95% of the Universe is even made of yet.

yes, i'm aware of that - in fact, i pointed that out to someone on this very site a while back

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

There is the evidence provided by actual working microwave guides circa 1800's which may indicate a better understanding of wave based physics.
"Jagadish Chandra Bose" probably a pen name.
There is what most people would see as a big chunk of industrial slag out in the high desert near the coordinates given for Cheyenne Mountain.
JV said they might send a sample to the lab in Poland for analysis, that would be interesting.

1947 was just a date of disclosure.
On that date the realization of the partitioning of Palestine per Thedoor Herzl dream.
Also the year the CIA was publicly chartered in the United States.
Someone could try a new FOIA request from the CIA, but you will be lucky if you get anything later than the 1800's.

My apologies for intruding and I'll bow out again. Thought I would point to something.

In another thread a "crashed" ORB in the USSR in 1986(?).

From the thread:

"The Dalnegorsk object," wrote Rylkin, "represents a plasma formation on the base of electromagnetical structure -- called 'plasmoid' -- whose trajectory passed over geological breaking and parallel to high-voltage electrotransmission line. It is supposed that this plasmoid absorbed selectively some chemical elements -- for example, the noble and rare metals.

The ORB in question happened to mention while I was reading the report of the height611 incident:

"I do that."

That was the first day I met it.

vlawde's thread: Found a story about recovered UFO debris .

If anyone is interested I post what I learn there.

Once again, apologies for intruding.

a reply to: aynock

There would have to be a different process than that, for sure...

originally posted by: aynock
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Unless we are don't know some very basic things about physics yet,
and that is pretty much certain.

well, we do know some basic things about physics, such as e=mc2. not sure how our ignorance of the nature of dark energy and dark matter calls this into question

We don't know what 95% of the Universe is even made of yet.

yes, i'm aware of that - in fact, i pointed that out to someone on this very site a while back

never said it did. I never referenced e=mc2.

We certainly know SOME things.

Maybe up to 5%.

Not bad, for such a young species as ours.

On a side note, this speculation is helping me write my sci-fi story- not anything y'all would ever run into as it will be self published, but my "more advanced specie" has become way more
Interesting with the DeLonge material and all these fascinating tidbits!!

My gratitude...

a reply to: mirageman

Very clear re 1947....

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Something pricks my attention with the talk of exotic materials.

There's the Vallee interview where he seems to be suggesting these materials are potentially from off-world and manufactured to be isotopically identical to terrestrial materials. It's a challenging notion on several levels. Simulacra.

Nick Redfern's interviews with the secretive 'Collins Elite' also featured simulacra. They claimed Roswell was genuinely a crash and that the purported bodies were more like 'juggalos' as in biological material in humanoid shape. In their view, the agents behind this deception were demons.

There was also someone during the 70s who recounted an incident from his military career. He made the curious claim of having been led into a building with a small group and shown non-human bodies. They were then led outside and given pencils and paper to draw what they had seen.

There was a report in the UK MOD files of a man who said he saw a saucer above some part of England. He was visited by men claiming to be in the RAF (he believed they were) who interviewed him and led him to believe he had seen a real 'UFO' as in 'not one of ours.' It was investigated by Dr Dave Clarke in Fortean Times and deemed a truthful account.

We've got the Bigelow associates connected to the Skinwalker narrative who are also tied to the SRI guys...and Vallee. I don't believe the story.

It seems like somebody, somewhere (or elsewhere), wants people to believe an unbelievable narrative whilst holding back the evidence. They provide what looks superficially like proof and evidence, but what is it really? Where's the cui bono? What changes if the world suddenly believes that ET are here? To whom does the advantage go? Its roots are almost certainly in the West as the narrative is almost specifically located in Western Europe and the Americas. Fascinating stuff.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: BASSPLYR

What changes if the world suddenly believes that ET are here?

Your bank balance if your revenue stream is connected to belief in the "phenomenon"?

In his book ‘Unconventional Flying Objects’, Paul R. Hill wrote a whole chapter on the investigations of the Ubatuba fragments.

The three fragments, weighing a few grams each, were grey in colour and had very irregular surfaces. Their appearance suggested that they were fragments of a much larger piece or object.
The surfaces were covered in scattered areas with a thin layer of a white powdery substance, adherent to the surface. They appeared burned with fire or heat, and had many small cracks in the surfaces.

The fragments were numbered 1, 2, and 3.

Fragments 2 and 3 were sent to APRO to be tested in the United States. Public record is a bit nebulous as to who tested which fragment there.
Oak Ridge and Dow Chemical both tested sub pieces of one fragment and found unusual high concentrations of Aluminium.
A fragment sub piece was also given to the U.S. Air Force and they had burned up the sample in a spectrometer test without result.
The remaining fragment was turned over to the University of Colorado UFO project. Although this fragment proved not to be pure magnesium, the possibility remained that the material was unique. The high content of strontium was particularly interesting, because strontium is not an expected impurity in magnesium made by usual production methods.

Fragment 1 was tested in Brazil by the Mineral Production Laboratory, a division of the National Department of Mineral Production in the Agricultural Ministry of Brazil.
This laboratory is the official Brazilian laboratory for the analysis of minerals.
The analysis was done under the direction of the laboratory's chief chemist, Dr. Feigl, from Germany.

It was cut into a number of sub pieces. All the irregular surfaces were cut away, leaving little pieces with polished surfaces weighing about 0.6 gm each. They tested it to extinction.

A spectrographic analysis showed the metal was a very pure magnesium.

X-ray diffraction tests not only confirmed the purity of the magnesium, but clearly explained the nature of the white powder on the fragment surfaces as being magnesium hydroxide formed when the pieces hit the water.
They also showed that the trace of hydroxide was something probably not present before the material hit the water.
It was clear that the fragments had dropped into the water in an incandescent state as the witnesses said, because only at elevated temperatures could the hydroxide have migrated to the interior of the samples.

The density of fragment 1 was determined for a small, carefully polished piece taken from the centre of the fragment. Three successive tests all showed a density of 1.866 while he expected density of magnesium was 1.741.

The experimentally measured value of fragment 1, 1.866, is only 0.005 higher than the theoretical value for pure magnesium 26 (a magnesium isotope).

Paul R. Hill wrote:

I was impressed by the possibility that a non-universal isotope ratio might be the cause of the weight discrepancy. If so, it would also explain the purity from other elements. This would be strong evidence of extra-terrestrial manufacture because, even now, the only isotopes to have been separated on a significant scale are those of uranium 235 and 238.

Dr. Garry Nolan is a Professor of Microbiology & Immunology at Stanford University as well as being a member of the advisory board for the To The Stars Academy. In this interview, he states:

I would guess—just hypothesis-- that “they” (an advanced civilization that we might infer can accomplish some of the feats observed by the pilots) understand the subtleties of isotopes and design with all 253 stable isotopes.

The meta materials “they” could design would be more subtle and likely encompass a greater understanding of reality and physics than we know now.

These are not your grandma's alloys. If these materials truly exist-- they are going to be found to be meta materials. Though I call them meta materials-- it's really for lack of a better term.

They are probably even more engineered and subtle than that. The science of meta materials is only a few decades old, but there is a whole ecosystem of new journals growing up around their unexpected and wondrous properties.

One way to think about meta materials is that is, basically, quantum engineering—working with “normal” matter in a way that takes advantage of properties we don’t fully appreciate yet.

originally posted by: Jukiodone

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: BASSPLYR

What changes if the world suddenly believes that ET are here?

Your bank balance if your revenue stream is connected to belief in the "phenomenon"?

True enough and yet I believe there's more to it than money alone.

originally posted by: Guest101

Dr. Garry Nolan is a Professor of Microbiology & Immunology at Stanford University as well as being a member of the advisory board for the To The Stars Academy.

Whilst I understand why a microbiologist would be interested in Metamaterials (from an optics and drug delivery user perspective) - until 2 or 3 recognised material scientists provide proper evidence backed analysis - it might as well be anyone commenting...

You have something unusual,
You are a billionaire
So you get 3 separate materials specialists to confirm it so you aren't relying on comments from enthusiastic amateurs like Nolan.... this really isnt rocket science (well maybe it is..).

a reply to: Jukiodone

it might as well be anyone commenting...

Not necessarily although I am dubious about the team at large.

There's a microbiologist, Dr. Tyler Kokjohn, who's been conducting outreach in the UFO world for several years. He's educated enough to be able to make intelligent and informed comments on areas he's not necessarily trained in. Those who live in the academic world have access to colleagues across multiple disciplines.

He's one of the most interesting minds to visit ufology in recent years.

I'm not making these points to bolster/defend or agree with Nolan's thoughts. They're to explain why we shouldn't be too quick to dismiss people.

a reply to: Kandinsky

What changes if the world suddenly believes that ET are here?

i don't think they are trying to convince 'the world' - just enough people (of a certain type maybe) to be 'useful'

to what end? run-of-the-mill intelligence work would be my guess

a reply to: Kandinsky

I'm not making these points to bolster/defend or agree with Nolan's thoughts. They're to explain why we shouldn't be too quick to dismiss people.

when intelligent people (especially people with a science background) make extraordinary claims with nothing more than stories, hearsay and word of mouth to back it up i think we should be dismissive of those claims - if they've got evidence they should publish it instead of using it to blind the uninformed with science

(i agree with your thoughts on dr k though)

originally posted by: aynock
a reply to: Kandinsky

What changes if the world suddenly believes that ET are here?

i don't think they are trying to convince 'the world' - just enough people (of a certain type maybe) to be 'useful'

to what end? run-of-the-mill intelligence work would be my guess

I'm with you on that aspect. At least to the point where it still makes logical sense. For example, I believe the SRI stuff was a Cold War psyops designed to spook the Soviets and cover up for agents. It's also useful when someone sees a black project and reports a spaceship. I can't remember his source, but Jack Brewer said 'aliens' has been used to test for leaks in the aerospace industry. Tell someone the 'big secret' and see where it leaks out. Similar with the Bennewitz case too.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

It's interesting how small pieces of the Dalnegorsk object ended up in Nevada at the National Atomic Testing Museum, Las Vegas in 2012. They were even displayed as an "Authentic Alien Artifact".





See : Link

Apparently George Knapp provided them after visiting the crash site and being given samples.

According to the exhibit's description, scientific tests on the UFO materials revealed bizarre behavior: "Three Soviet academic centers and 11 research institutes analyzed the objects from this UFO crash. The distance between atoms is different from ordinary iron. Radar cannot be reflected from the material. Elements in the material may disappear and new ones appear after heating. One piece disappeared completely in front of four witnesses. The core of the material is composed of a substance with anti-gravitational properties."

"I don’t think the Russian scientists ever said it was out-of-this-world, but it had unusual properties. Some of the stuff went to academies and it never came back," Knapp added.

Link

a reply to: mirageman

It's interesting how small pieces of the Dalnegorsk object ended up in Nevada at the National Atomic Testing Museum, Las Vegas in 2012. They were even displayed as an "Authentic Alien Artifact".

Yeah, there is something odd about that, searching via google I found this Australian website Badufos blogspot that had a few things to say about the sample at the Atomic testing museum:

Speaking of alleged UFO artifacts in Las Vegas, I wrote in my Psychic Vibrations column (Skeptical Inquirer), January/February, 2013, concerning a UFO discussion panel held at the The National Atomic Testing Museum in Las Vegas. They had a special exhibit on "Area 51."

During the question and answer session, Las Vegas skeptic John Whiteside asked about the supposed “authentic alien artifact” in the Area 51 exhibit. The moderator referred the question to reporter George Knapp, in the audience, who (scandalously) was the source of that “artifact.” Knapp has made a career out of reporting on weird stuff like alleged saucers at Area 51, Robert Bigelow’s Haunted Ranch in Utah, etc. Who had verified that supposed artifact? The Russians, and others. Who exactly? No answer. The moderator encouraged the two to take the discussion off-line afterwards. Immediately after the close of the questions, Whiteside says he was approached by Jim Brown who identified himself as the Acting Director of the Museum. Brown berated him for asking such a question, claiming that it threatened their funding. If a Museum’s funding is threatened by asking a legitimate question, the fault lies not with the questioner, but with the Museum. Whiteside went looking for Knapp after this, no more than five minutes later, to find that he had quietly slipped out the door.

I'm thinking it's very likely that this was one of the same "UFO artifacts" that Bigelow had. If so, one would scarcely need to modify any buildings to house it.

Source: Badufo

The website is an interesting read with an open mind, but you guys are the ones who know about the people like Knapp and the cloak and dagger stuff.

Just personally, I'm skeptical that the artifacts in your first picture of the Atomic Testing Museum exhibit are themselves actually from Dalnegorsk. My instincts say it doesn't feel the same as the Soviet height611 "orb".

The second photo is interesting. But I don't know enough about the different origins of materials yet to comment further.

Realisticaly, until I can hold samples in my hand I'll never know for sure where they came from.