Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: schuyler

Good stuff, Sky. You should do a paper or two. Oh you have.

I'd like to add just a bit to my comments on Justice. That Justice is on the Board and also potentially has been in a position to know about much of what Skunk Works has been doing has struck e as a bit incongruous. I suggested earlier that telling all about the projects would violate all sorts of security oaths, but merely sitting quietly on the TTS Board would not. He might be kind of untouchable because of his silence, with his mere presence conveying information. I'm kind of saddened by this because, just like everyone else here, I'm starved for more complete information. This especially in view of people like Chelsea Manning, a criminal who gave away a prodigious amount of Top Secret material, was given a 30 year sentence, commuted by Barack Obama. Now Manning is running for the US Senate. I'm just thinking, life is not fair....

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
The last time I even entertained the idea of extraterrestrials being responsible for the woo was many, many, many moons ago. I just add it to include all aspects of this sort of discussion.

It's still a possibility, however slim, that some creatures out there in the vastness of the universe have developed the technology we currently have to an extreme degree and are able to zip between stars and planets like they were going for a walk. More likely, however, is that they have developed their own version of what we would call technology that also includes the consciousness / point-of-view stuff we have yet to incorporate into our Newtonian mathematical, nuts-and-bolts view of existence. But then they're not on some far-away planet. They're "here," because everywhere is "here" when you look at it a certain way.

But there may be some clever evolved mongooses out there who use space ships to visit nearby planets. Until proven otherwise.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Well first I'd have to accept what I am told regarding outer space to believe there could be life on another planet. That's the conundrum of my thought process. I'm not a genius and couldn't stand toe to toe with some of the best posters on this website. Yet, I'm hard pressed to believe I'm an idiot or a dope.

I haven't been sold on "flat Earth" not even close but there are things about our collective accepted truth that just doesn't pass the smelling test. A genuine discussion can't even take place because to even consider such things is taboo even for ATS. I can observe what I can with the naked eye or via a telescope but without preconceived notions of space fed to me since grade school, I would certainly be more compelled towards a level plane over spheroid.

How does someone like me who genuinely thirsts for knowledge and prefers reading and pondering new ideas over sports and trivial things get stuck on the most fundamental aspects of our reality?

So can aliens exist? Sure, but first I'd like some hard proof of outer space.

*Takes off tin foil hat*

As noted, I'm not subscribing to this thread, and wish to stay out of it. Unfortunatley
I follow a specific poster, so I saw a post in this thread.

I noticed a howling, gross inaccuracy that can easily be disproven with a simple quote:

in the book, "Triangular UFOs: An Estimate of the Situation Kindle Edition
by David Marler (Author),‎ John Alexander (Foreword)"

it is stated that the first black triangle UFO sighting was in 1882 in Kittyhawk, N.C.

There are MANY other references that go back considerably earlier.

I'm not disputing that there are experimental space-planes in development..

But to state with authority about BTUFO being 100% certainly "ours" when
they predate the invention of the airplane is just a howler.. with no
evidence whatsoever.

Not to mention that this:

en.wikipedia.org...

Looks nothing like the BTUFO that I saw clearly for over a minute. It's like
comparing a 747 with a child's toy and to confuse the two.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion of course; and I'm not going to argue the point..
but clearly, the issue of BTUFO being "ours" is not 100% certain. An entire book
was written by a credible author, with a very credible forward.

I'm not responding to this post, I just wished to provide the information.. and to say
it's a good read.. and the author is a nice guy (he interviewed me).

Kev

a reply to: mirageman

I agree but avoiding FIOA is just the tip of the iceberg. I like to keep hoping there will be some benefit to us in the general public but I feel it's just going to pave the way for nefarious things to happen in the private sector that will never see the light of day.

a reply to: schuyler

Once you accept the idea of a multi-dimensional existence strange things cease being strange. Telepathy isn’t strange. Ghosts aren’t strange. Portholes to other dimensions aren’t strange. Talking with dead people via mediums isn’t strange. A whole lot of strange things suddenly become part of a broader more enriching universe.

You certainly put a lot of thought into that post schuyler. Forgive me if I am wrong but I guess what you were trying to say, in a nutshell is that science, can only tell us about what it is capable of seeing.

As regards the 'government' it seems that it is only ever the US Government embroiled with 'disclosure' issue in public.

a reply to: mirageman
Kudos man, I just like to share this:

How did a self made billionaire, MUFON, and a member of Blink182 all become entwined with the machinations of the DoD?

According to Daniel Liszt (Dark Journalist) Nevada Senator Harry Reid is a friend of Bigelow, Senator Reid appropriate funds for Bigelow's research for years. George Knapp who is also a resident of Nevada knew both Senator Reid and Bigelow. Knapp is a friend of DeLonge... so there's your tight knit little circle.

If you're familiar with Joseph Farrell, Liszt said that Farrell was offered to be a part of the group but Farrell turned them down. My impression was Farrell was offered as researcher/ghost writer/consultant before Peter Lavenda and Farrell considered the offer seriously because of the amount of money DeLonge's group put at the table.

Anyways, here's the link to Daniel Liszt YT channel Dark Journalist & Peter Levenda's interview at Forum Borealis:

originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: Iridomyrmex
I'll spell it out again quickly for you: The videos are almost certainly false, and they come from Elizondo, under direction from Bigelow, who DEFINITELY should have known they were false. These videos are backed by all involved. All of the woo in the world makes no change to the situation here: These guys are either naive and ignorant, or they are lying to their investors who have given them $2 million+ based on their trust in them, and to the American public through major national media.

Bravo, Irid! I think you've made a great office case. Even more, I sincerely think you make a great RICO "office case." I believe you, Counselor, but if you took it to the DOJ do you think they'd run with it? The Woo? For now let's just say HUMINT if nothing else---and surely you understand that if you're of investigative snuff and I would say that you are showing some real promise in that regard. The kinds of details that suggest motive, make roles clear, etc. Look it up!

That you're a bulldog with lazer focus is admirable, but a little widening of your peripheral vision is my friendly suggestion. That's when an investigator--pro or armchair like us--go from tough to formidable. At least in our own minds but theoretically true nonetheless. The question becomes: Are you enlarging the body of research through collation and observation or have you become stasis?

It takes some discipline and research, but if one applies themselves you'd be surprised by the difference and clarity of view when you go from, say, 1-D (Investor Scam) to 3-D (Government-Blessed Intelligence Operation w/ Multiple Objectives and Partial Self-Funding Business Cover.) I'm just a dude on the internet, I have no illusions that what I'm doing here is gonna bust this thing wide open. Collectively, however, who knows? Go Internet! (thank you DARPA the Tech Magician Formerly Known As ARPA??) They own the battlefield. We are in it.

I think there's a lot more to this than some simple money grab/con, actually I'm quite sure there is based on a growing list of evidentiary items, and would like to add to your damning indictment, a deeper investigation into the fact that a lot of them are the type that are expert at giving shots, get off on hardcore science study, and are very familiar with human-use experimentation!

That's what scares me. I'm writing and sharing a lot on human-use experimentation because I happen to know for fact that in the pursuit of national security objectives--perceived or hallucinated--some wicked things have been done. And history and human psychology tell us that these things don't change. These concerns are much more important to me than woo, but whachoo gonna do when the woo comes down on you? I could HUMINT you a few bars of that, but I have the vid:

Whatever Bigelow's history in Ufology, it does not inform this scenario in any important way. He's either naive/ignorant or lying. The same for everyone else backing these videos. *This is nothing like Bennewitz, this is nothing like any previous situation in Ufology* - this concerns the people we trust with our national security and our space program pushing a giant, bald-faced lie on the evening news about ET threats in our skies, and the possible consequences involved here are much more dire and far-reaching.

Sure it does. And we're already back to why "Woo HUMINT" might provide insight. We've already established that your RICO case, while strong, is nowhere near being prosecutable as of yet. Case in point: I personally believe, and have been adding to the evidentiary hand-basket here, that Bigelow might be being led around by his woo-woo so to speak. To what degree I'm not prepared to make a guess at this time. And I could be wrong, but I think I'm on to something. Maybe you, Irid, are trying to charge the patsy--or useful "tool"--and miss the crime lords.

And while it's very true that I myself wish we wouldn't be hearing the same mystical interpretations over and over (it does get off topic and I'm guilty too) or even if aliens or interdimensionals exist, that's not really why I'm here, though it is a part of the question because TTS is making some big claims as you passionately and correctly state yourself.

Finally, I submit once more, having explained myself better because you asked me to (even though Kandinsky explained it sufficiently and covering everyone's POV I should think) that the Woo is part of this. Is it misdirection? Is it used as control? Do we have mad scientists that dabble in shamanism & mysticism and think they can engineer gods and/or weapons and are looking for guinea pigs? They're even stating as much. Until your case has them all put in jail or has otherwise solved the mystery, I would beg you allow me, and others, to follow whatever crumbs we might?

Now, my friend, a little more inspiration for expanding your peripherals! Seriously, check it out! Peace, Dude, Most of us yakking here at length are on your side!

Okay great, we're on the right track! You're my greatest fan on ATS, so listen up!

Now let's look at a cursory list of main players involved in this scam, who've seen the videos and should understand that their evidence is bunk. At least we know they've all seen it by now, and they've had time to speak or hold their peace:

- Luis Elizondo
- Robert Bigelow
- Cmdr. Fravor
- Cmdr. Slaight
- Jim Semivan
- Chris Mellon
- Steve Justice
- Raytheon

That about right?

Now, if you want to just pretend like you are the FBI and lay back and case these people while they scam everyone on the evening news, that's your prerogative I guess.

And that's the issue that we all should acknowledge and try to answer now, the question that matters: Authority figures and DoD insiders are using an obvious hoax to solicit money while also stoking fear about serious threats to our country's national security through a major-media campaign.

Seems like an important, even newsworthy story, I would think. If only more people acknowledged it's importance, then perhaps the news would report it? You've got to get that word out on this tangible, incriminating evidence before delving into insular UFO lore and occult geekery. The trial will probably iron that all out anyhow

Calling out the players involved and demanding they explain themselves would be the next logical step in a rational, freedom-loving world, I would think. We know now that the road to AATIP lead right to us getting scammed, so what do we do about it? Do we call them out?
(open question to all)

P.S. - and don't call me RICO

originally posted by: Iridomyrmex

Now let's look at a cursory list of main players involved in this scam, who've seen the videos and should understand that their evidence is bunk. At least we know they've all seen it by now, and they've had time to speak or hold their peace:

- Luis Elizondo
- Robert Bigelow
- Cmdr. Fravor
- Cmdr. Slaight
- Jim Semivan
- Chris Mellon
- Steve Justice
- Raytheon


And that's the issue that we all should acknowledge and try to answer now, the question that matters: Authority figures and DoD insiders are using an obvious hoax to solicit money while also stoking fear about serious threats to our country's national security through a major-media campaign.

Seems like an important, even newsworthy story, I would think. If only more people acknowledged it's importance, then perhaps the news would report it? You've got to get that word out on this tangible, incriminating evidence before delving into insular UFO lore and occult geekery. The trial will probably iron that all out anyhow

Calling out the players involved and demanding they explain themselves would be the next logical step in a rational, freedom-loving world, I would think. We know now that the road to AATIP lead right to us getting scammed, so what do we do about it? Do we call them out?
(open question to all)

P.S. - and don't call me RICO

Those are great questions and to the point. What to do? That's tougher. Not to be a negative nelly, but I doubt the MSM is going to pick holes in their ufological swiss cheese. Looks like they have complete cooperation from media outlets.

That pretty much leaves us with online options. Keeping it here isn't going to help a whole lot, although I think picking the story apart here has been useful to members and readers that have been trying to make sense of it.

Going public on social media with all the good questions and background info could at least enlarge the base of folk who view this warily, but I don't know many folk who would be willing to carry it to their facebook and other platforms.

A Twitter devoted to this topic could conceivably help a little.

In the meantime: Everytime they make a new announcement they expose themselves more it seems to me.

I do think you should make a thread too. I'll participate.

That would be a great thread and you'd definitely have my attention. Only time will tell what's all going to happen with these people but given their backgrounds I don't see anyone turning over a new leaf and actually helping the public any time soon.
a reply to: Iridomyrmex

a reply to: Iridomyrmex

I agree except on one point. I don't think Raytheon are a part of this. they just saw all the hubbub about people mentioning their system being used to capture the video and their PR department decided to be cheeky and crack a tongue in cheek remark.

a reply to: Iridomyrmex

this concerns the people we trust with our national security and our space program pushing a giant, bald-faced lie on the evening news about ET threats in our skies, and the possible consequences involved here are much more dire and far-reaching

how many of 'the team' are currently employed by the u.s. government? on the face of it they all appear 'ex' - the government can quite plausibly deny any involvement in the project

then please tell me how exploring woo reveals anything of any significance about the moronic crime that's been perpetrated here

making money isn't a crime - looking at their offering circular they seem pretty well covered from that angle

No woo involved, see?

i think the woo is an important ingredient:

The most profitable strategy requires accurately distinguishing viable from non-viable users

source

a reply to: Iridomyrmex

Perhaps a start would be finding out how the $22m was appropriated to Bigelow Airspace. Was it really put out to tender? Was this abuse of budgetary authority by Senator Reid? What did the US taxpayer see as a return for their money? (Besides a new warehouse for Bigelow Aerospace).

Although I also wonder why the mainstream media isn't asking questions?

originally posted by: Iridomyrmex
Calling out the players involved and demanding they explain themselves would be the next logical step in a rational, freedom-loving world, I would think. We know now that the road to AATIP lead right to us getting scammed, so what do we do about it? Do we call them out?
(open question to all)

Well Robert Sheaffer is following the thread apparently - maybe he could help? Same with Jack Brewer. Do you metabunk folks have contacts who could be of use?

Anyone else have suggestions?

edit: theres a motherjones guy following this...AJ Vicens (twitter.com...). They might be the folks to bring in for this.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Iridomyrmex

Perhaps a start would be finding out how the $22m was appropriated to Bigelow Airspace. Was it really put out to tender? Was this abuse of budgetary authority by Senator Reid? What did the US taxpayer see as a return for their money? (Besides a new warehouse for Bigelow Aerospace).

Although I also wonder why the mainstream media isn't asking questions?

How can we get our hands on this stuff?

a reply to: 1ofthe9

I'm not a US national and not familiar with the FOIA process across the Atlantic. Curt Collins (aka CardDown) may be able to assist if he's looking in.

It's an old cliché but 'following the money' may lead to something.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: 1ofthe9

I'm not a US national and not familiar with the FOIA process across the Atlantic. Curt Collins (aka CardDown) may be able to assist if he's looking in.

It's an old cliché but 'following the money' may lead to something.

I'm not American either, and I fear that ties my hands...but other folks here have a shot.

a reply to: mirageman

Although I also wonder why the mainstream media isn't asking questions?

i'd guess it's an effort vs reward calculation - you can spend an awful lot of time and effort asking these sort of questions with very little chance of getting clear cut answers - and even if they did get some, what percentage of their audience would be interested in those answers?

from the ufo side of things the 'news' that bb has a 'special warehouse' with 'alien stuff' in it is enough to keep most folks going for years - the 'inside baseball' stuff is a very niche market

and from the political side there's an awful lot of low hanging fruit at the moment, and if trump or clinton aren't involved who cares?

Come on, the government knew 40-50 years ago this stuff ins't no god dam threat, the very basis of this group is BS.

So all of a sudden after all these commissions Robertson Panel, Blue book, Condon commitee and many others known and unknown all of a sudden in 2007 or whatever their going to start some examination of UFO threats…


Pleease!