Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: mirageman

What I struggle with, in all of this, is who is pulling the strings? Are there really someone pulling anything? Who is really the bus operator?

The second issue is why have they not given the bus some real weight to plow down all opposition? The videos, so far, are all weirdly inadequate. The theoretical framework, such at it is, is going off in all directions at once. There seems to be more of a muttering where once there were bold mission statements.

So I am coming to suspect that no one is pulling any strings, and the whole project is (at least for now) flapping loose.

Even if quite a number of people seem to be clinging on to the wagon, or bus if you will, for dear life, it seems to be without much direction.

A circling of wagons (or buses) seems to be taking place, with a smattering of gunfire back at the circling heathens outside with their arrows of snide criticism. I don't think this is a good sign.

I wonder if there is a cavalry to come to the rescue?

(I sincerely apologise for the torturous stretching of the Old Western movie allegory, but I was unable to stop).

a reply to: Willtell

The plan is to control it, monitor its mythologies, and when something new comes up, like a TDL, they co-opt it. 

But why?!?

That is the billion dollar question.

Why on Earth does it make one iota of difference why the unwashed masses on the so called fringes of society think about these things?

It certainly matters little to the majority.

originally posted by: beetee

I sincerely apologise for the torturous stretching of the Old Western movie allegory, but I was unable to stop.

All that was missing was Lee Van Cleef's pocket-watch melody as I read it.

In a further reference to 'For A Few Dollars More' (1965), when there is no further use for TDL, I can imagine Lee Van Zondo riding off into the sunset before turning and asking:

- "Any trouble, boy?"

- "No, old man - just having trouble counting my profits before starting another hot-dog stall."

I have to reconsider my first opinion of the History channel series Project Blue Book.

I had said it wasn’t to hot but the last few episodes were very good. The two protagonists, Hynek and a flashy, young hotshot and tough captain, who knows he's hired to debunk UFOs are both great characters, particularly the guy who plays Hynek

It’s a well produced show, of course, dramatized and embellished but what would one expect.

The most recent episode is on the 1951 Lubbock Lights where again the Air Force was proven wrong in their analysis that it was birds.
www.ufocasebook.com...


I hope our UK guys can see it soon

a reply to: beetee

Well, according to Jacques Vallee in Forbidden Sciences 2 / 3.

- The CIA ufo project was run by Robert Friend but taken over by a young biologist
- JV meets with Kit Green (who I assume as the head of the weird desk) and finds that they only really know about the RV stuff he was involved with.
- Green expresses to Vallee that he believes the secret, if there is one exists within the Airforce. Specifically something he calls the 'Black Airforce'

Then look at TTSA
- There is a video with John Alexander talking about Skinwalker where he says there is "no ufo government project"
- Yet as part of NIDS / BASS how could he not have been aware of AAWSAP or AATIP?
- Alexander, according to Vallee ran the Secret Onion Project to find the 'control group'
- Out of this came is his Theoretical Physics Working Group
- John says that they found no control group. Do we believe him after the contradiction he gave saying there are no government programs?

Either we believe:
- John Alexander was kept at a level down from AAWSAP and AATIP and was prevented from finding the truth
- John directly lied to the interviewer and us - which frankly is very unlike him

So either we take everything John says as being potentially deceptive, or we assume the 'group' was able to hide from him.

The Theoretical Physics Working Group seems to close around 1985. Then, recently we've had Eric Davis say that AATIP / AAWSAP was unable to get access to the crash retrieval program which closed in 1989.

So Alexanders group NEVER found the crash retrieval program?
Yet Davis and Co did but couldn't get access because Harry Reid couldn't get SAP status for the project?

There are huge contradictions here as there are between the positions of Davis and Elizondo, and Knapp, Corbel and Lazar. Both perspectives cannot be true.

But Wait! Elizondo just said on Medium that there is no US inventory of craft. Yet Davis says there was a crash retrieval project and Roswell is a 'good bet'. Diana Pasulka is taken to a 'third crash' site in New Mexico from a 1947 crash.

Are we to believe that another crash occurred that was not Roswell, but just happened to follow a straight line from the Brazel Ranch, through the Friedman Corona site towards the Sierra Blanc peak (just a few miles) and happened in 1947 but was not Roswell?

Again, you can't balance what Tom Delonge has said about Roswell, what Elizondo has said, what Davis has said, or what Pasulka as part of the Cosmic Club group of scientists have said.

Not a Single one works with the other. Forget about trying to make Corbell's Lazar story fit. Or control groups.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Hehe... someone has to make a movie poster for this...

a reply to: ctj83

You are right. It is just random statements contradicting each other.

If I was conducting a police investigation into this, and this lot was in my interrigation room, I would pretty much conclude most of them were making stuff up.

But we must not forget that someone started this. Someone made Tom DeLonge take the plunge and he went forth with boundless enthusiasm and assurances of 'government support', even all the way to Washington.

Why has nobody asked McCasland, Podesta and the other shadowy figures for some clarification?

And there is something else that puzzles and bothers me.
Why the spaceship ttsa project?

Is FTL travel by bending space tossed around so much in the hallways of Lockheed-Martin that a former project manager really thought this was achievable by a public benefit corporation?

a reply to: ctj83

John directly lied to the interviewer and us - which frankly is very unlike him So either we take everything John says as being potentially deceptive, or we assume the 'group' was able to hide from him.

So with that in mind now what?

a reply to: beetee

If you look at the book Ruse by Robert Ersinger (it's Google Searchable) - check out page 182.

Jacques Vallee's friend and business partner in InfoMedia, Ira Einhorn had been on the run into the 1990s in France for the murder of Holly Maddux in the late 70s.

The author, working for the FBI catches up with him in that late 1990s in France. The book is totally not about about UFOS and the author reacts like Ira is a loon when he says (paraphrased):

"The reason I was framed for Holley's murder is that during my networking group, I discovered the truth about ufos and mind control. Ron Pandolphi regularly emails me about this. They have crashed saucers from Roswell which gave us things like fibre optics, and stuff Monsanto was working on",

The first thing is you can assume that Ira has stolen the soon to be or just published "Day after Roswell". Or you can assume that this is what he told Stafford Beer (creator of Systems theory) after tracking down his isolated Welsh cottage years before.

If it was years ago, then it seems like the Corsoe story was around in the late 70s... which is odd. Just like Emenegger told Linda Moutlen How he had the SERPO story in the mid 80s.

If it was just a case of ripping off Corsoe as an excuse for murder, then why was he in regular email contact with Ron Pandolphi?

On a blog allegedly written by Einhorn, he claims that the head of the CIA weird desk emails him a lot. I think we can take from 'Ruse' that Robert Ersginger clearly got Einhorn to admit this was Pandolphi.

Well, apparently, Einhorn, according to his website was told by email that before disclosure, the true nature of the mind and Dr Green's discoveries would need to come up to prepare the public.

For those who follow the excellent work of Nolan, Dr Green and Danny DeSilva's articles - this seems to be roughly what is happening.

Personally I find it all very weird. Check out the book Ruse. It's not a ufo book at all, but when you look at these odd claims its very hard to make sense of.

a reply to: ctj83

Wasn't one of these working group meetings the time where Puthoff was invited but not allowed in due the classified nature and he didnt have the clearance....so had to wait... lol... always made me chuckle that...

a reply to: ctj83

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this just variations on the so-called "core story"?

I can't recall the souce, but I seem to remember it was Green, Vallee and possibly some others who came up with this.

a reply to: Baablacksheep

I've no answers.

a reply to: beetee

Ah really. That's very interesting. Perhaps Ira got it from Vallee then. Before he fled in the late 70s.

a reply to: ctj83

Yes. It might be. Vallee mentions the core story in a discussion with Kit Green from around 1982. I think others have also been quoted on this "core story" concept. Puthoff and Pandolfi I think, among others.

Now, as I understand it, the core story is either a summary of what the participants have managed to agree on about the ufo phenomenon, and how it might be disclosed, or it is a myth fabricated and perpetuated by this same group.

If it is indeed such a construct, it is not unreasonable that it might be floating around a bit earlier than 1982 to "test the waters".

Someone like Einhorn might, in fact, have been a good test bed to test the power of such a meme?

Einhorn apparently used the "framed by the CIA" argument as his defence at his eventual trial, so maybe he really believed it.

a reply to: ctj83

There are huge contradictions here as there are between the positions of Davis and Elizondo, and Knapp, Corbel and Lazar. Both perspectives cannot be true.

Yep the Lazar story can't fit either because what we effectively have is a complete mess. We'll call it the "Poor Story".

· Roswell was a real alien crash and we got stuff

· The three amigos (Hoff, 'Chat-Vert' and 'Silicon Jack') make up their drunken Coors story featuring alien contact

· Sideshow Bob sees spaceships in a hangar that appeared to be too small for humans and discovered stable moscovium. He even sneaks home a piece.

· The American UFO crash retrieval project is closed just as the Lazar story broke

· Big Derek knew all about crash retrievals. But his former boss Col. Zander didn't and has even only just found out about AATIP recently.

· Even though Col. Zander worked at Big Bob's Burger Emporium after starring in "Non-Lethal Weapon"

· Tommy believes just about every drug trip he was given until he melts down on Joe Rogan's show

· Zondo takes over the rudderless ship that is To the Stars Academy proclaiming that he'd been searching for UFOs from 2009 to well we aren't really sure but it could have been 2017. Probably using technology procured from the Roswell craft. All the other dudes of course already knew the US had crashed UFOS. They were at Area 51. Well all except Col Zander who was too intent on eating fried chicken when ever anyone tried to tell him. He must have missed it well over a thousand times whilst he was licking his fingers.





Put it all together and what do you have?

a reply to: mirageman

As much as the fantastic group of new Bloggers, Twitter...ers(?) and Vloggers want to break ground on this, will any of them take this up? Cameron's Young Guns.

Or, will they ignore these contradictions.

Corbel, bless him has too much of a vested interest to deal with this. As does Knapp.

LOVE the artwork Mirage. Made my day.

a reply to: beetee

He claims that Dr Kit Green was a forensic witness for the prosecution at his trial. However, it's hard to trust what a guy who could possibly be a psychopath and a killer, says.

a reply to: ctj83

and then we have Firmages perspective boiling away in the background........!

a reply to: ctj83

Probably not. They are all so focused on promoting what they think is the first ever revelation by the US Government that they studied UFOs.

They need to check their history.

a reply to: ctj83

Yes, indeed.

There are not very many who invite a lot of trust in any of this, to be honest.