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Uncle Sam does indeed seem to promote belief in the Roswell-era mythologies rather than try to cover-up E.T. as I used to believe.
What we now have in the UFO community is a default position of distrust in anything the government says on the subject. But somewhat paradoxically a need to look for information from officialdom that supports their version of the truth.
originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
originally posted by: Willtell
The basic problem here folks may be this.
With scientific advancement without an equivalent moral or spiritual advancement may have brought the little grey, green or black men amongst us because...
The idea of focusing on “consciousness” without the virtues of the heart is probably to some very problematic
Give a kid an atomic bomb, indeed the reality that we have a president who is morally a child yet has the power to incinerate the planet is a LIVE metaphor!
Back in the day, when there were far more kundalini shamans around, if a student started to show signs
of the process operating, but they didn't have the moral development, they would flat out be killed
by their fellows. If they claimed to be "enlightened" and made a single mistake in predictions,
they would be killed. That's the oral history I was given. So by those standards, I should have been
killed a few times now...
Yes.. I agree with you vigorously.
originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: The GUT
i wish that all of us... all those weird researchers.. and us internet
conspiracy and mystical types, could come in out of the rain together..
for a better world..
originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
It actually makes me very uncomfortable to say anything about Dr. Vallee..
I don't want to jam him up, or be one of those idiots who misquotes him..
or shares confidences he doesn't want shared.
But I'd also like to dispel most of the mythos that swirls around
someone like him..
Other characters may be "shady". But not him.
Kit is in close contact with most of the UFO groups, so his interest is only confidential among the uninformed. Right now he is on his way to Houston, where Valerie Ransone and a group of contactees have promised he would witness materializations. But what are his true intentions?…
There is no way to know what really goes on, and who pulls the strings. And even the bright ones can easily be fooled by their own system or fool themselves.
It is becoming obvious to both of us that some of the rumors about extraterrestrials have been planted, perhaps as a cover to esoteric weapons systems, or as part of psychological warfare exercises in which ufologists are a convenient test bed.
Messsengers of Deception emerges slowly in the media, stressing the hypothesis that some UFO cases are the result of psychological manipulation by the military.
I won't see Kit on this trip. Sadly, in spite of my admiration for his sharp intellect, there's a barrier between us. He's cleared for all kinds of secrets to which I have no access. It's pointless to talk, and I can't trust his bosses with my information. I carry my notes for Network Revolution. There is much to say about the world of computers we are building, the “solid-state society” on the distant horizon.
Sealed in boxes, our UFO library is ready to be loaded into the truck and driven away to a rented storage place where it will spend the next few years. I feel lighter and freer now, this mass of information pushed out of my life. I haven't found out what UFOs were, but I did change the level of the problem.
Too bad I can't say more in Messengers. As Frank Pace pointed out, I am condemned to understatements.
4. 30 July 1989 pp 411-412 Richard Niemtzow. 'This lead us to a wide ranging discussion of the role of various agencies in the UFO business and we came to talk about Kit. Richard reminisced about the time when he and John Schuessler were almost 'recruited' by a woman who claimed to be working for a private investigation service in Houston. When they came to her office for a meeting about UFOs they found a dozen people working behind desks which were so neat and devoid of paperwork as if to seem unnatural, and they quickly came to a conclusion the whole thing was a setup. "Was the woman named Valerie Ransone?" I asked Richard. He seemed puzzled to find that I knew her and her operations. "Did you ever find out who she was working for? he asked. I confessed that I did not. "Schuessler tracked her down through his channels at McDonnell-Douglas. It turned out she was an agent for NRO, working with the Navy. Kit, who took care of her medically, once told me that she was amazing; she knew four times as many people as the both of us did." I laughed at that" "She also looks a lot better than both of you guys." I pointed out. "A woman as beautiful and articulate as she was would have no difficulty being invited to lunch by any company president. That didn't necessarily mean she had access." "There's something else Jacques. When I revealed to Kit, over lunch, that I knew her affiliations, he practically chocked on his food. He told me not to mention her again at the restaurant. I've only had that reaction from him twice in all the time I've known him."
…When our conversation returned to the undercurrent and the activities of the government, Hal insisted it was time for me to meet his spooky friends. “I'm ready, if they mean business. Where are they hiding?”…“They're getting nowhere,” Hal said in frustration... “They have no concept of the Magonia angle; they still see the topic in terms of extraterrestrial technology, propulsion systems, space hardware...
…Hal's contact is a boyish fellow, Dr. Christopher Green nicknamed Kit, a dynamic bespectacled young man of medium build with alert brown eyes. He holds a doctorate in biology, exudes optimism and refreshing humor…
…I had lunch with Pat Price and Hal Puthoff. A temporary clearance is being setup to enable me to visit Kit Green next month in hopes to better understand the chessboard. Oddly enough, in this situation, it is the individual researcher who is in the best position to gain an understanding. As I extend my contacts in Washington it is that precious freedom that I must preserve above everything else…
The Planning Network (PLANET) was the first ARPANET chat system, predating the Internet. PLANET was invented by Jacques Vallee, Roy Amara, Robert Johansen, and others from the Institute of the Future in 1973.
It was the first chat program designed for the ARPANET, and enabled anybody on the network to log into the system. PLANET was used in a series of evaluation studies, and had a considerable influence on those that used it and later research.
I spent two fine hours in the office of Tom Belden, a legendary analyst at the Institute for Defense Analyses. He came to pick me up in Kit's office and said with a chuckle, as he guided me down the wide corridors of the CIA at Langley, “Do you realize that I have to use this bloody Agency as my cover?
...The day was spent training NSA analysts at Fort Meade. There was a funny moment: sitting at a classified terminal to demonstrate Planet over the Arpanet…
…He told me stories about the early use of conferencing in the Intelligence community. We discussed crisis simulation games on computer networks, a subject on which I was eager to have his wisdom. He explained why multilingual computer conferences should use interpreters rather than translators, and told me about the ingenious research games he had invented to create standardized conflict simulations within dispersed groups…
…Kit came over for a long talk about Lopez Rega, the cults of California and my theories of control systems.
"There were three spaceships that came here over thirty years, and we've got one of them. We can't figure out how it works, we've crashed it because there's a lot of physics that we've still got to learn. We do have something that's like a magnethydrodynamic toroid, and it really did get a craft of the ground, but it smelled bad and it killed a couple of pilots. And we're really sorry about that, but we did it because we've got this machine that came from another planet, and we need to know how it works." '
Source: Link to post in this thread.
originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: The GUT
A quick glance over the bios reveals one thing. Below the layer of former intelligence people there is something else that jumps out. The people who didn't appear at the empty arena launch all seem to have backgrounds in biology.
Dr. Garry Nolan is a Genetics Technologies Consultant & Professor in the Department of Microbiology and Immunology at Stanford University School of Medicine.
Dr. Paul Rapp is the Brain Function & Consciousness Consultant & Professor of Military and Emergency Medicine at the Uniformed Services University
Dr. Norm Kahn is a National Security & Program Management Consultant currently a consultant on national security for the US Government, with a focus on preventing the use of biological weapons of mass destruction/disruption.
Dr. Colm Kelleher is the Biotech Consultant (biochemist).
Dr. Adele Gilpin is the Biomedical Research & Attorney. A scientist with biomedical academic and research experience as well as an active, licensed, attorney.
Even Luis Elizondo's academic background includes Microbiology, Immunology and Parasitology, with research experience in tropical diseases. Luis is also an inventor who holds several patents.
Source: link to post in this thread
On the way to the Capital, and from there to New Orleans...I plan to come home through El Paso where I'll meet with Dr. Green, still in medical school. I expect we will argue again about the reality of UFOs and mutilations, both of which he keeps denying…I am unimpressed by people with secret clearances. UFOs and psychic phenomena are best studied in the field, not in the secrecy of Washington circles…
…I think of the UFO phenomenon as a kaleidoscope with three levels: a purely physical, technological level; a sociological level; and finally a personal, subliminal level playing on the subtleties of the human psyche. The first aspect could spell out an extraterrestrial origin;
the second one, if taken by itself, would point to human mythology and anthropology: that is the explanation favored by Kit and sophisticated skeptics, as opposed to Menzel and Klass, who flatly deny everything.
The third aspect is ominous: it provides a hint of a darker, terrestrial origin, earthly manipulation.
Then there is Jim, whose professional history in the subject goes back to his personal involvement in the Stargate project in the 1970’s and as a participant in the legendary “Working Group” meetings in the eighties. As one of the intel community’s most senior medical analysts, Jim frequently communicates with UFOlogists.
Chris Iverson believes that Tom and Jim clearly have differing agendas, noting, “Jim is the person I have had the most contact with over the last several months and he seems to be interested in the spreading of viral memes over the internet, particularly in relation to this subject.”…
“The whole subject,” Jim says in wonderfully measured speech, “is composed of three components: delusion, sociological groupthink, and a kernel of truth.” Jim then reminds that he is first and foremost a medical scientist. “My interest in this subject is much, much more professional than it is personal. That is, 90 to 95% of all persons who are engaged fully with this [UFO] subject are psychiatrically ill, and by that I mean that they are on medication or should be.”
Jim elaborates that “viral memes,”[see below] in which disturbed people seek validation in numbers on the web, is, or should be, a growing public health concern. That said, Jim nonetheless has a real interest in UFO’s, and seemingly with good reason.
Both Tom and Jim seem to share at least one rationale for their internet excursions: studying the frightening potential of “viral internet memes.”
Coined by evolutionary theorist Richard Dawkins in 1976 (The Selfish Gene), a meme is a unit of cultural information that evolves the way a gene propagates from one organism to another, and subject to all the analogous unintended mutations. In the view of many, computers and blogs could function as powerful meme “replicators.”
Richard Brodie, the creator of Microsoft Word, notes, “Most of these viruses of the mind are spread because they are intriguing or frightening or inspiring, and not necessarily because they're true. That's the problem.” It doesn’t take much intuition to envision an enemy creating memes that can be used to destabilize a society, or a freelance predator utilizing them to cozy up to potential victims. Caryn Anscomb writes online,
“The UFO community has been deeply penetrated by the manipulators of information, who couldn’t really give a fig whether there might be any valuable data pertaining to Aliens and contact hidden behind the deafening noise. That’s not their business; their business is information warfare.”
Something bothers me about such conversations with Kit: We speak past each other. I try to make him see the reality of the phenomenon because he's one of the few people in a position to bring the subject up before decision-makers, but he continues to deny it, in academic terms that don’t take the facts into account.
This made me think of the Intelligence boys I have met. Either they don't know about such incidents, in which case they are poor analysts, or they do know and they've never shared the information, in which case they're playing games. Kit keeps explaining away the sightings by a combination of witness unreliability, fugue states, paraphrenia, or unspecified “anthro-pological” factors; none of which accounts for the hard core data.
Another factor freezing open debate is the meddling of the Intelligence services into a domain of research that should be allowed, above all others, to blossom freely.
It is difficult for a scientist who is used to the culture of open criticism and honest exchange of data to feel respect for the methods of shadowy agents who invade your personal life, listen to your phone calls, open your mail, interrogate your kids in your absence and feed you false information, all in the name of some supposed higher duty to the security of the nation they claim to serve.
In my limited contacts with the agencies involved, I have met some of the brightest people I will ever know in this life, and some of the most despicable and sometimes crazy characters.
“Do you work for the CIA?” I asked him directly. He swore to me that he did not, although he had been indeed “approached,” as I had surmised. Brendan[O'Reagan] and I share the same reaction to the Intelligence community: Some fascination, mixed with disgust. “These guys are unreliable, their contacts can't be trusted,” I said. “Not only that, but they keep playing games,” he replied. “You’re right to stay away.
originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: Willtell
I've got some answers from here and there, but that's pretty complicated and we'd also have to define his research a bit broader than UFO but overlapping considering his Interdimensional Hypothesis.
He did a lot with his own money from books and such. But from his time with J. Allen Hynek there were various funded projects. Then there's the Stanford University and SRI stuff. It would be a long list including Robert Bigelow.
originally posted by: Willtell
If I may indulge you again.
What was the deal on he and Hynek giving that computer over to Bennewitz
Any info on that caper?
Was that part of his research?
Btw anyone can take a bite of these questions
Saucer Smear Volume 47, No. 7 August 10th, 2000
Former ufologist WILLIAM ("Bill") MOORE writes:
"Several quick comments, which you may publish if you wish:
1. "Rick Doty is either mistaken or misinformed when he says I 'was paid' for such services as may have been rendered to AFOSI et al., in the early 1980s. While it is true that money was offered on several occasions, I never once accepted a penny of it. Therefore I can say with a clear conscience that everything and anything I might have done in this regard was entirely out of my own pocket.
2. "Regarding the Bennewitz Affair in general - two things which have never come to light and which might prove most interesting to ufoology are the roles played by doctors J. Allen Hynek and Jacques Vallee. It is not generally known that Dr. James Harder was involved (at least early on, although perhaps not later).
I personally know that Hynek was still under contract as a USAF consultant at the time, and Vallee had very close ties with the CIA and others (although what his obligations to them may have been, I do not know). For those still hoping to uncover some hidden treasure in this whole mess, here is a good place to begin.
Many of Bennewitz's bizarre views on abductions seem to have come to him as a result of Harder's involvement. Hynek's hitherto unknown forte had to do with providing Bennewitz a carefully crafted means of 'decoding' the supposed 'alien' transmissions he was intercepting. As for Vallee, numerous clues pertaining to his particular specialty can be gleaned by a careful rereading of his book 'Messengers of Deception'...
Dr. Harder was perhaps best known as a prominent UFO researcher who has studied the subject for over 50 years, first becoming interested in 1952. He was Director of Research for the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization (APRO) from 1969-1982. APRO was one of the first civilian organizations to study the UFO phenomenon. When the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Science and Astronautics held hearings on UFOs in 1968, he was one of six scientists asked to testify on UFOs before the committee. In a 1998 interview, Harder said the subject was generally treated with disdain by the scientific community, but he was still one of about 300 academics who were actively investigating the phenomenon.
Harder was the primary investigator on a number of classical UFO cases, mainly related to alien abductions, including the 1973 Pascagoula Abduction and the 1975 Travis Walton case. He also took over the Betty and Barney Hill abduction investigation and continued it for many years. According to Harder, in about 95% of abduction cases he's studied, abductees report the encounter as positive, benevolent, and/or enlightening. He also investigated the claims of legendary CIA remote viewer Pat Price (who allegedly died under suspicious circumstances in 1975). Based on his remote viewing, Price believed aliens had underground bases at four locations on Earth.