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Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

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posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 07:44 AM
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a reply to: justwokeup

I know all that but it seems that he's stretching a bit to make out that there were Ukrainians at a MUFON conference who were really spying on him for Russia. It's not like TTSA hasn't put the video up on Youtube just in case Vlad Putin didn't get to hear about it.





a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Yep the UN UFO conference was 40 years ago at the request of the PM of Grenada. There was a lot of interest. But the UK & US governments were not keen on the idea. I think the US invaded there [Grenada] a few years later too.

edit on 21/9/2018 by mirageman because: ...




posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 08:20 AM
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a reply to: mirageman

40 years ago? I feel old.

They just keep adding little important sounding references that are without substance.

I like what BaaBlackSheep wrote a page ago. It is a simple explanation.




BaaBlackSheep

The stuff wrapped up in the blackworld is certainly possible. If I "suspend my disbelief" for a second here in regards to TTSA, what if some of the things they are doing is a white world replication of things they know have been tested and true in blackworld projects, but due to their nature and classifications they can't outright say but have to prove to be right.



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 08:32 AM
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a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Actually it was Pigsey who said that originally of which I agree to.

Simple, but perhaps true.

Though am fast loosing track who is saying what at the moment.





posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 09:15 AM
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originally posted by: mirageman
Not the most interesting article. But it appeared in Newsweek today.

It's notable because it seems to confirm that since October 2017 Tom has been silenced from speaking to the media by his own underlings. Strangely it states that Zondo is liaison to the government, including Congress, the Pentagon and the intelligence services



Do Aliens Exist? Blink 182 Co-Founder and Ex-Pentagon Official Are Determined to Prove We’re Not Alone



“I know what I saw.”

It was late July, and Teresa Tindal, a 39-year-old administrator for a consulting firm, was describing the incident that made her a believer: a round, golden object hovering in the evening sky....

This..had brought her...to the... Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) Symposium....

But this year offered another attraction... Luis Elizondo. Seven months earlier, The New York Times had published a front-page story on the Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program, a “shadowy” initiative at the Pentagon that “investigated reports of unidentified flying objects.” Elizondo, a burly Miami native with a dyed billy goat beard and colorful tattoos, was the career military intelligence official put in charge of the program a few years after it formed in 2007...

In the private sector, Elizondo soon found an unlikely ally in ..Tom DeLonge, the former frontman for the pop/punk band Blink-182...In 2017, he launched To the Stars Academy of Arts and Science...

The academy claims to have attracted more than 2,000 investors and raised roughly $2.5 million, and Elizondo found a mostly enthusiastic crowd in Cherry Hill. “Sometimes people may have associated you with being fringe—being out there,” he told the MUFON audience over a buffet dinner. “All along, you were right.” Not everyone was convinced: Some cited a lack of evidence in his presentation. Tindal was suspicious of the Pentagon connection. “It could be a cover for something else,” she said.

But if Elizondo is trying to lend credibility to research on unexplained sightings, why would he partner with a guy whose band had a hit album titled Enema of the State? And why would he choose as a venue a UFO conference teeming with conspiracy theorists?

....In an interview with podcaster Joe Rogan a few weeks after his company launched last October...(DeLonge declined to be interviewed for this story. He “is not doing any press right now,” said his spokesman.)

....The next six months or so will be pivotal to the success of To the Stars, Elizondo says. That’s when he expects to be able to present more data on UFO sightings. As the Academy’s head of Global Security and Special Programs, he serves as a liaison to the government, including Congress, the Pentagon and the intelligence services.

But there are still more questions than answers. Is he working behind the scenes to get some of the information that he knows from his Pentagon days declassified? He wouldn’t say. When will the public have access to this information? “That is being ­addressed,” he replies


Ful story : Newsweek



Make of that what you will.



Just zooming back on this one Mirageman. It was interesting to see Teresa Tindals account in this article.
As we know she was questioning Zondo recently. She has a very interesting background too. A lot of interesting connections going on here.

www.newsweek.com...


edit on 21-9-2018 by Baablacksheep because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 09:42 AM
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originally posted by: ConfusedBrit
a reply to: mirageman

Wasn't that an occasion when a bizarre dwarf appeared? TBH, I can think of better ways to spend three days.



Kev - can I go back to bare basics and ask how you first became interested in ufology? And do you now regret it?


I believe in full disclosure from anyone who might even potentially
have a clue to the great mysteries we all wrestle with.. from all
parties including myself.

How did I become interested in UFOlogy?

Well frankly, I'm still not interested in "UFOlogy" which is the study of
deception on the part of multiple parties.

But to more fully answer.. I had grown disillusioned (a good thing actually)
with how human beings approached religion and spirituality, and cut myself
off from the groups of followers of various systems that I knew.. I had an
intuition that I'd find something in "UFOlogy", which would in fact bust
"spirituality" wide-open.. and that's just what happened. For me at
least.

There had been missing pieces, which is not at all unusual.. cross-discipline
analysis can be very helpful.

Do I regret it?

Why would I regret learning more about what is real and what is not real?

The things I've had to experience in "UFOlogy" are not 1% of the pure terror
of having your being ripped apart and dying.. that happened twice to me
before I came to UFOlogy.

That "little dwarf" was nothing in comparison to that. I eat little dwarfs for
breakfast, and sprinkle dismembered machine intelligences on top for
sprinkles.

Now as to "I'd rather have done something else for 3 days".. that's funny.

I basically kept a (lets call it) meditative state in place for over 40 years,
and as a result browning out much of normal human experience and reactions..
3 days doesn't even blip on that scale.

Why so curious about my experience?

Kev



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 10:49 AM
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originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

Why so curious about my experience?



I can only speak for myself, but I find the individual experiences and motivations of ATS members fascinating. I firmly believe that the phenomena attempts to communicate in a manner/symbology/scenario that only the "observer" understands. For some it's the ghost of grandma and for others it's machine elves singing in technicolor.

How the communication takes place reveals a great deal about the witness and their personal bias/approach. I'm a social-anthropology dropout so I find the social/memetic topology of ufo culture enlightening. Who are we, what do we believe, and how do we act on those beliefs? In turn, what channels of dialogue and understanding are we open to based on our personal mythology?

Ultimately I'm always left with the same question:
"Does this 'other' lie, and if so can it lie better than a human?"

We lie when we wish to obfuscate or deceive, and it bears to reason that if another intelligence can lie it would do so for the same reasons. Do we shoot the messenger or just deny the message?



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 10:56 AM
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a reply to: ParticleNode

Well Deception is the very core nature of reality.

When you've got a whole lot of nothing... vast emptiness.. and you want to put on
a puppet show to amuse yourself.. then you learn to lie yourself.

I think that lying to oneself is a universal trait, an emergent property of consciousness
-awareness itself.

And since no 'being' is an island.. everyone winds up ading and abetting not only their
own self-deception, but others self-deception.

The folks that harp about 'truth and honesty' or at least morality are some of the worst
offenders. The ones who say the word "enlightenment" and don't bust out laughing are
possibly the worst.

Self-deception can be equated in some ways to "symmetry breaking" in physics.. once
you start losing information.. you are in effect lying.. and by "lying" things like matter
and energy become possible..

So deception turns out to be the mechanism of continuous eruption of "reality" in terms
of lets call them quantum foam bubbles..

Not only can't we get away from deception.. its required for existence.

So love or hate the "Phenomenon" it's just one of many mirrors.

Kev



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 11:51 AM
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originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: ParticleNode

Excellent and thought-provoking post as usual...



I like the comparison of symmetry in physics - it bears out an interesting thought experiment. Consider the following:

I have a ball and a cube that I suspend in mid-air. I then place an observer directly in "front" of the two objects and have the observer note their position and linear/non-linear symmetry. I then move the observer 30degrees to the left.

The ball portrays the same symmetry even though the information has changed. Is the new observable position a lie? Note that the object has not changed its inherent structure, only the perspective has changed relative to the viewer.

The cube does not portray the same symmetry ("broken symmetry" due to change in information). Is it a lie? I would posit that it is neither truth nor lie - only incomplete information. Change the observer's perspective again and the observable symmetry is returned.

Now the Phenomena(TM) enters the room and puts a funhouse mirror behind both objects. Is the information conveyed via the mirror a lie? I would posit that yes it is because it has altered the information without altering the information source (the 2 objects). Any change in the observer's perspective will in turn alter the information presented by both the objects and the mirror.



Note that I'm not proposing that there is a valid answer to the above thought experiment; just throwing thoughts out into the ether for MM to find an accompanying 80's song that will fit the motif



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 12:59 PM
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a reply to: ParticleNode

That's a nice thought experiment.. you should post more.

Here's the deal on the fine point between "lack of informaton"
compared/contrasted with "lies", especially "self-deception".

At a certain point, a sentience realizes that it lacks much or possibly even all
valid information (people postulate that we are in a simulation for example..
if that were true.. then the simulated laws of physics might be completely fake
compared to the "real" laws of physics, if any exist).

So what is a sentience to do?

Say, "Well everything is a lie! So I will just sit here and pout and scream and die!"

That is certainly one approach.

Others say, "Everything is true!" ... well that might be true.. but it's not necessarily
useful.

So what people do, is that they acknowledge that they only have a subset of
genuine information.. and then they "wing it", and that involves a willing
"belief" to use limited data... which is defacto "self deception".

We all agree to use self-deception ("to become a magician per "The Magus"
by Fawkes") or we die.

That's why I post that "Magus" thing endlessly.. it's all that one need to know,
to understand
reality. Oh sure you can get fancy and roll out Godels Incompleteness Theorum
or whatever.. but it all comes back to the "Magus".

Now.. I will concede that one could say, "I choose to go forward with limited
information, acting as if some things were proven, when in fact nothing is
proven and I will change my behavior and opinions when better information
becomes available.. unless my self-bias overcomes my
intention".

Or you could say that we are all Magicians and deceive ourselves and each other.
edit on 21-9-2018 by KellyPrettyBear because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: ParticleNode

On the subject of missing information I want to share something i've been
meaning to share.

When Jim Penniston (of RFI fame) supposedly saw a "craft", and he supposedly
drew a picture of a triangular shape pierced by a pyramid..(it's contentious if
or when he saw such a thing and when he wrote it down), it really drew my attention.

Why?

Because when I saw "my" "Black Triangle UFO".. at first it looked like an isosceles
black triangle...then maybe 15 seconds later it seemed to "change shape" to a
"pyramid".. and eventually there was this weird superimposed image of a pyramid
piercing a triangle.. but my mind knew that was not actually it's shape..

I had the sense that both images were simultaneously true but a 'mixed image' was
NOT true.

That image really bothered me for a long time..

Eventually the notion came to me, that say a Tesseract (a 4 dimensional analog
of a cube) could not be properly envisioned by the brain, and the brain might get
confused in a way similar to the pyramid/triangle image.

So if humans interact with something that has elements of information which are
not present in our 3 dimensions.. it would cause various anomalous perceptions
and misperceptions..

I then came to realize, that much of "reality" is this way.. that what to us might
be a single point, might have 10 other 'invisible' other 'axis'.. and as our brain
struggles to understand what cannot be comprehended, it will "glom onto" various
limited and distorted data sets so everybody sees and experiences something
different.

I'm pretty certain that the so-called "Phenomenon" and the so-called
"machine intelligence" have access to other 'axis' than we do.. so they
can drop into our space/time at will and fade out at will.. and that table
in our office with the Budweiser beer on it could easily be part of some
vast structure and we'd never know it.

Our very brains and nervous systems could have these "higher dimensional
geometry" axis attached to them.. and the Universe trying to understand
itself by growing brains could "NSA bug" our brains and bodies 24x7 and we
could never know it.

The critical takeaway of this message, for "UFO research" in my view..
is this information theory interpretation of complete/incomplete information
sets across multiple vertices of geometry.. some perceived and some not perceived..
depending on the evolution of the sentiences involved.

So this need not be POSSESSION.. if you get my drift.. there would be no need..
all of space/time would be a form of conduit.. depending on the usage of these
other axis/vertices.

Does my rambling make sense? I wish that I could speak to a David Bohm.. it
would be an enjoyable activity.
edit on 21-9-2018 by KellyPrettyBear because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 01:51 PM
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originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: ParticleNode

On the subject of missing information I want to share something i've been
meaning to share....



A fantastic post! You've done an amazing job of illustrating the dilemma for each of us - how much of the information we receive is being parsed and "recoded" by our own brains in an attempt to decipher the experience. I was intrigued with your initial recounting being that you stated the BTO displayed physical characteristics (bolts+rivets) but that you knew it was a facade/projection. Now to read that the object displayed characteristics of extra-spacial geometry - that's huge. There's no use in doing an elaborate dance for onlookers if those same onlookers don't have legs - the display is lost on them.

Like others I've seen comment from time to time, I liken you as the embodiment of the New Wave of UFO researchers; wherein we used to look to outer space for signs and signals, the community is slowly recognizing that inner-space is where the contact seems to take place for many.

Nosce te Ipsum ("Know thyself")



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: ParticleNode

Thanks for the compliment..

I'm not really a UFO researcher.. I'm at best a "reality" researcher..
and I'm retired at that.

On top of that, some of the old guard that is in the news these days
have a burning hatred for me that you wouldn't believe.. when I left
ATS for a few months, I was under the impression, with justification,
that I was to be killed. Fortunately that did not come to pass. Well
it hasn't yet.

Your comment about legs and dancing.. very nice..

I'd like to further clarify some of my own language, that wasn't
phrased as carefully as it should have been.. I was hungry and
my stomach summoned me to the kitchen. My apologies.

We can't assume that certain Phenomenon or Machine Intelligence
EVER "enters our space/time continuum" even IF they produce
what I call "splash side effects".

Perhaps people with the right DNA.. or epigentic factors (native
americans who passed along epigenetic factors to their descendents
(yes this can happen)..

perhaps allowing some people to "see" a bit of those alternate
axis/vertices..

So it's not necessarily DELUSION when someone sees X.. or even if
they say that they have been abducted. Maybe they HAVE been
'abducted' on those other axis/vertices.

So things like this might not be "in your head" per se.. in the insulting
way that abduction and posession survivors rail against.. it might be
"in the Universes head" so to speak.. very real... very physical.. but
maybe not using the "lower 3 or 4 axis we think of LxWxHxT) or
at least not using them in a way that we recognize.

Lets say that there was a junction point... call it point J..
Lets say that point had 7 other 'invisible' information streams
hooked to it ('dimensions' if you want to be crude and innacurate).

Let's say that so-called "higher entity 'H' was interacting with
that junction point indirectly as it was traversing those 7
other axis points.. without even wanting to (or it might want to)
it might "jossle" the Junction Point J, which did include access
to our 3-4 space/time "dimensions".

It might shoot out EM.. or particles.. or whatever..

and all it was doing was "going to the store for bread".

We humans are not the center of the Universe.. we
may well be turning something more innocent than
anything.. into a Cargo Cult.

Now.. let's say that some sentience/machine was for
some reason interested in our "lower dimensions /
data streams"...

It might not even natively use the same LxWxHxT
axis..

People have this confusion that there's this giant
spiritual pyramid.. that you can't omit data streams
or vertices/axis.

I think you can..

In fact our space/time might be pretty much
abandoned.. due to all it's "missing parts".

But if something 'from that side' where the parts
are not missing wanted to communicate with us..
it would of necessity require that we meet it
'half way'..

as our very bodies would be innate conduits of
the 'missing pieces' of axis/vertices.

Oh sure.. rocks and what not would be too.. but
if INFORMATION is the true infrastructure of
reality.. then a "vast and complex information
system" might well enjoy the challenging of
hooking up to an old Macintosh IIe or whatever..
especially if the primitive sentience is "cute"..

when my little puppy rears up with his maybe
50 IQ (he's pretty smart) I can't but resist to
reach down to him and interact.

But we humans are convinced that we are the
'horror channel' so we don't know how to interact
with more mature information systems.

I hope that rambling was more of a clarification
and i"m not just liking the sound of my own
voice.

I appreciate your interest, that's for sure.

Kev



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 04:31 PM
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originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: ParticleNode


When Jim Penniston (of RFI fame) supposedly saw a "craft", and he supposedly drew a picture of a triangular shape pierced by a pyramid..(it's contentious if or when he saw such a thing and when he wrote it down), it really drew my attention.


You're referring to these sketches, supposedly drawn whilst examining the craft:





I assume he wrote down his home address AFTERWARDS, but then these particular sketches have always stretched credibility for me, considering how shaky his handwriting was in the equally controversial notebook. What's the date he wrote? 29th Dec??? Dates seem a curse in this case! Co-witness Burroughs, of course, says Penniston wrote or drew nothing of the kind during the incident.

Larry Warren's description of the yellow/green mist-drenched Capel Field UFO two days later seems to more or less match these drawings - which could be a further example of him pilfering others' accounts (true or not) and descriptions.





edit on 21-9-2018 by ConfusedBrit because: stuff



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 04:52 PM
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a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I have no idea what JP or LW saw or never saw.

But the idea that someone else had seen the triangle
pierced by a pyramid shape intrigued me.. and made
me wonder if they had experienced the same thing
that I had.

I actually have a little sympathy for JP.. let's say he did
indeed sense some sort of higher-dimensional
'whatever it is'. His brain could never have understood
what he was sensing (trust me).

So there is a psychological phenomenon where the brain
'fills in' when it just can't understand something and
doesn't want to admit it --- confabulation.

It's not deceit.. it's a very common thing.. religious
and spiritual people and UFO people (it's all the
same thing) fall prey to it all the time.

The brain so badly wants to find meaning, that it
churns away version after version of 'truth', until
some half-baked version comes out, that is psychologically
palatable to the person then they stick with that.

You could say that i'm an excellent example of this process..
only I put "hypothesis" in front of it and use it to have good
discussions.

I don't try to sell books or go on a talking tour.. I work
a standard job where I try to help people.. I don't sell
snake oil.

More importantly in my case, I revise my hypothesis when
I discover i'm wrong.. so what began as mere post ex facto
confabulation has turned into a very interesting line of
research.

Kev



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 04:53 PM
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originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

When I left ATS for a few months, I was under the impression, with justification, that I was to be killed. Fortunately that did not come to pass. Well it hasn't yet.



You remind me of Robert Redford freaking out after his the car-park meeting with Deep Throat in 'All The President's Men'.

Kev, do you not think you should seriously knock this wilder area of ufology on the head, and enjoy your well-earned retirement in glorious peace and comfort? I hate to think of you suffering like that again.

No need to leave ATS again, though.
We'll look after ya.



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Well like I said.. I'm (damn it!) "mostly" retired.
I'm certainly not going to wrestle with other researchers any more..
If anybody wants me to "talk shop with them", my rate is $1000
per hour.. and if someone wants me to summon a BTUFO for them
the fee for that is $22 million. I'm done bending over backwards
for nothing.

Otherwise, BS'ing with my friends (do I have friends?) on ATS sounds
good..

I do spend most of my time playing with the puppies and living a normal
life.. but I've come to realize that if I don't keep my brain active.. i'll
die too soon.. and I get a little lonely not having anyone interesting
to talk to other than my wife.. and she's "scully" from the X Files..
so not much talking happens on my subjects of interest.

Thanks for the good wishes,

Kev



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 05:19 PM
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originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

I do spend most of my time playing with the puppies


Perfect!
Kittens have the same calming effect for me.


my wife.. and she's "scully" from the X Files


Ha! I was more like "Scully" before I met my wife. She'd witnessed that black triangle years before she met me, and although she'd filed it away in her memory, her interest re-surged after the Belgium flap. And when her parents bought a Cornish home that was a hot-spot for all kinds of paranormal activity (including poltergeists, demonic-style entities, dark shadow beings, UFOs in the area - see my intro thread last month for extra detail), I found myself falling into the rabbit hole when I experienced a rather unpleasant poltergeist there some 20 years ago. That's (thankfully) all I experienced because the in-laws sold up not long after.

While my wife almost casually accepts the ETH as real, I can't jump to that conclusion and so just keep looking for answers like many here.




posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 06:28 PM
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originally posted by: Baablacksheep
a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Actually it was Pigsey who said that originally of which I agree to.

Simple, but perhaps true.

Though am fast loosing track who is saying what at the moment.




Oh crap, sorry Pigsey.


edit on 21-9-2018 by Whatsthisthen because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 06:58 PM
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a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Looking at that picture and hearing the stories of big black triangles, I can't help but arrange those "pie slices" into a complete "pie" to make a flying saucer.



posted on Sep, 21 2018 @ 08:22 PM
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originally posted by: pigsy2400
New clip about the materials from TTSA, funny Puthoff has a little subtle snipe at the naysayers right at the start. I'll leave the obviois clipart puns to Mirageman


youtu.be...
#NewShirt

The thing is people they're not testing parts or metals, what they're testing are blurs. Now I'm no expert so I don't know how this is possible; or indeed why you would want or need to.

I was once, shall I say, “set upon” by two hot alien babes, and yes folks I have a photo to prove it.

So I am puzzled to what Zondo et al are up to in reality.

I know what kind of blur I'd rather test.



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