Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: Arouet

Average disinformation is a known and admitted tactic of the Intelligence apparatus. It’s no longer a conspiracy theory after decades of known antics within and without Ufology.

a reply to: Arouet

The Fravor story has been out there since March 2015 : fightersweep.com...

Pity he didn't switch on his helmet camera. The tic-tac that got away....

Also one of the videos was discussed on this site over a decade ago : www.abovetopsecret.com.... Although the link to the video doesn't work there, the wayback machine stores a copy of the video. None of this is thanks to Zondo and Del Boy.

Zondo told the New York Times he resigned and sent a damning letter to his boss. When in fact it seems more likely he took a deferred retirement package. Possibly because his job was being phased out. FOIA requests have resulted in responses that there is no such letter of resignation from Elizondo. Although we've all seen the 'draft' copy. Perhaps he didn't send anything at all?

Zondo tells us " it's "Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program." But he doesn't work for the DoD. Meanwhile a Pentagon document in a direct response to questions about AATIP confirms that "Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program" is the correct term. So either this was a casual name and no one really ever knew what the AATIP acronym stood for or someone is lying here.

Unless it's for a sounbite then TTSA won't deal with any other journalists but George Knapp (and previously Leslie Kean). Knapp can't (maybe because of an agreement he has), or won't, ask any of the piercing questions that should be asked. Kean told us there would be another NYT piece coming very soon in Dec 2017. But has since backed off and no follow up article has been forthcoming. Perhaps because the sourced material for the original has been deemed not as robust as it first seemed.

Back in 2009 Zondo was so dedicated to his job with AATIP that he was actually thinking of a way out and working on his own business ideas "Never Ship Empty" with a colleague at the DoD.

www.stardem.com...

articles.baltimoresun.com...

patents.google.com...



TTSA is registered as a SERVICE COMPANY ALLIED TO MOTION PICTURES.

So far what have they given you? A couple of videos to watch. They might talk a good story about UFO hunting with George Knapp but their legal documentation is all about TTSA moving DeLonge's debts from previous companies and placing them all onto TTSA. The company is now geared up to put out books, CDs and other trinkets of interest because of it's failure to raise their required $5m from their share offer. They don't mention UFOs anywhere in those documents at all.

So enjoy the TTS and AAS entertainment package for what it is and hail to the people who are all on board. Jim Semivan, Dr. Hal Puthoff, Luis Elizondo and Chris Mellon have all worked in intelligence services. Dr. Garry Nolan (has worked with Dr. Christopher Green who has CIA links), Dr. Paul Rapp (commended by the CIA for his work), Dr. Norm Kahn (former CIA). All dedicated to serving up something allied to motion pictures.

Don't take anyone's word for anything and make sure your attention never waivers for a moment. It's all about UFOs though ... it really is...if you want it to be.

There is a library of all things TTSA and AATIP and AAWSAP here : omnitalkradio.weebly.com...
to study.

I think this is pretty low to be honest and quite typical of them...but hey... the are an entertainment firm.

a reply to: Arouet

You have made multiple statements regarding what you believe, then contradicted yourself not long after.

It doesn't take much to see that you are quite an argumentative person, having a belief / confirmation bias is fine, we all have them. What we all need to do and not many do, is to examine your own bias, figure out how those conclusions came to be and what influenced them. More importantly, information you digest that assists you in forming your opinions, examine the origins and agendas of that information! Seems to be the trouble with most of world, people want to be spoon fed everything!

The manner in which you post, the language you use and what "appear" to be attacks on other posters is not how ATS works, we leave that to people that want to argue back and forth about politics on other parts of ATS.

We have discussions, present ideas and data, theories and other such things in a manner that is respectful of other people, even though we disagree, we learn more from each other by understanding their perspective, even if we still disagree after.

On these forums and this thread, there are skeptics, believers, non believers, atheists, religious folks, abductees and experiencers. We all get along, your recent posts do not speak well of your character and how you have presented yourself and your ideas.

As a result, people are a lot less likely to take note of anything you have to say, even if there is value in there it will become lost.

It seems you have been banned from other forums before, as I said its all about being respectful to other people and their posts etc. I think you have value to add to this thread and others, but I think you need to re-evaluate how you communicate.

a reply to: pigsy2400

I agree. Very low!

a reply to: pigsy2400

Does Tom doodle these designs for the T-shirts himself?

I think I could design one myself better than that.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Arouet

Average disinformation is a known and admitted tactic of the Intelligence apparatus. It’s no longer a conspiracy theory after decades of known antics within and without Ufology.

So lately I’ve been monitoring YouTube for updates about the Pentagon’s Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), because I want to hear what experts have to say about the ATFLIR footage we’ve seen, and see related news about it.

And about a month ago I noticed a sudden flood of new YouTube content with titles including keywords like “Pentagon” and “UFO” – except the content had nothing to do with the Pentagon's program; instead, the audio and video files were old UFO-related talks, documentaries, television specials, etc.

At first I figured that opportunistic jerks were just trying to generate clicks to earn Google AdSense cash. But today I took a closer look and discovered that brand new YouTube accounts with different usernames are posting irrelevant files that share the exact same titles, and even identical descriptions – and none of them are ad-enabled so these bogus videos aren’t generating ad income for anyone.

Therefore I’m forced to conclude that we’re seeing US counterintelligence deliberately contaminating the search engines to make relevant information about this program harder to find. Because I can see no other explanation for the facts at hand. If anyone has an alternate explanation, then please share it with us.

YouTube is now flooded with fake content that comes up when you search for “Pentagon ufo” – you’ll find all kinds of similar garbage being posted by new YouTube accounts in the search results:
pentagon ufo - YouTube

So I think it’s crystal clear from this evidence that somebody’s spending a lot of time and effort to muddy the waters, and to associate the Pentagon’s AATIP story with bogus nonsense (Planet X, Billy Meier, Moon landing conspiracy theories, etc). And although it galls me because it seems that our tax dollars are being spent to crap all over the internet and make relevant information harder to find, it also suggests that our intelligence agencies really want to bury this story – which only reinforces its significance, in my estimation.

This isn’t a new or uncommon tactic – it’s a form of astroturfing, which is now an online epidemic. Which is why I get suspicious when a big story like this breaks, and suddenly a bunch of new and previously inactive posters slither out of the woodwork to flood discussion threads with banal/negative/conspiracy comments – that’s just another form of the same strategy: it makes the relevant information harder to find, and it makes the threads so unappealing that casual readers give up on the subject entirely.

If you think my position here seems unduly suspicious, then I suggest that you have a look at this document which was leaked by Edward Snowden, which provides a sense of the sophistication and the breadth of government disinformation operations (PsyOps) which are now a routine feature of online communications:

"The Art of Deception: Training for a New Generation of Online Covert Operations"
edwardsnowden.com...

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: Arouet

You have made multiple statements regarding what you believe, then contradicted yourself not long after.

It doesn't take much to see that you are quite an argumentative person, having a belief / confirmation bias is fine, we all have them. What we all need to do and not many do, is to examine your own bias, figure out how those conclusions came to be and what influenced them. More importantly, information you digest that assists you in forming your opinions, examine the origins and agendas of that information! Seems to be the trouble with most of world, people want to be spoon fed everything!

The manner in which you post, the language you use and what "appear" to be attacks on other posters is not how ATS works, we leave that to people that want to argue back and forth about politics on other parts of ATS.

We have discussions, present ideas and data, theories and other such things in a manner that is respectful of other people, even though we disagree, we learn more from each other by understanding their perspective, even if we still disagree after.

On these forums and this thread, there are skeptics, believers, non believers, atheists, religious folks, abductees and experiencers. We all get along, your recent posts do not speak well of your character and how you have presented yourself and your ideas.

As a result, people are a lot less likely to take note of anything you have to say, even if there is value in there it will become lost.

It seems you have been banned from other forums before, as I said its all about being respectful to other people and their posts etc. I think you have value to add to this thread and others, but I think you need to re-evaluate how you communicate.

As I'm sure you understand, FOIA responses are legally required to be provided by government agencies (though rarely easily obtained from those agencies, and then largely consisting of black mark-throughs that obscure the really significant information).

If TTS is holding back -- in your fevered imagination"hiding something" -- obtained through inside channels between some DOD employees and significant citizen researchers, that's another situation entirely, and equally one that does not guarantee disclosure to we the people.

Maybe you should run for Congress and attempt to change the security regulations that block information re ufos from the public. You certainly seem to have enough energy for that kind of work.

a reply to: Arouet

Oooor....there's the possibility other opportunistic hacks are trying to piggy back on a ufology fad.

a reply to: Arouet

Soooo you agree that the govt is very good at disinfo operations....but don't see the irony of you yourself falling for the TTS disinfo op. Wow.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Arouet

Soooo you agree that the govt is very good at disinfo operations....but don't see the irony of you yourself falling for the TTS disinfo op. Wow.

If TTSA was the shameless kind of money-grab organization that many people have accused them of being, they would’ve gone commercial with all this stuff, like the “Alien Autopsy” hoaxers did, or the appalling “Roswell Slides” jokers did. But they didn’t – they just gave us everything for free.

In fact I just checked out all of the videos they have on their YouTube channel – and they’re not even monetized: we don’t even have to watch a commercial for 5 seconds in order to see these video clip releases. They have over 8 million views that they easily could’ve monetized.

Every dollar they’ve brought in has been on a totally voluntary basis. I think it’s insane that anyone has a problem with any of this.

originally posted by: Arouet

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Arouet

Average disinformation is a known and admitted tactic of the Intelligence apparatus. It’s no longer a conspiracy theory after decades of known antics within and without Ufology.

So lately I’ve been monitoring YouTube for updates about the Pentagon’s Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), because I want to hear what experts have to say about the ATFLIR footage we’ve seen, and see related news about it.

And about a month ago I noticed a sudden flood of new YouTube content with titles including keywords like “Pentagon” and “UFO” – except the content had nothing to do with the Pentagon's program; instead, the audio and video files were old UFO-related talks, documentaries, television specials, etc.

At first I figured that opportunistic jerks were just trying to generate clicks to earn Google AdSense cash. But today I took a closer look and discovered that brand new YouTube accounts with different usernames are posting irrelevant files that share the exact same titles, and even identical descriptions – and none of them are ad-enabled so these bogus videos aren’t generating ad income for anyone.

Therefore I’m forced to conclude that we’re seeing US counterintelligence deliberately contaminating the search engines to make relevant information about this program harder to find. Because I can see no other explanation for the facts at hand. If anyone has an alternate explanation, then please share it with us.

YouTube is now flooded with fake content that comes up when you search for “Pentagon ufo” – you’ll find all kinds of similar garbage being posted by new YouTube accounts in the search results:
pentagon ufo - YouTube

So I think it’s crystal clear from this evidence that somebody’s spending a lot of time and effort to muddy the waters, and to associate the Pentagon’s AATIP story with bogus nonsense (Planet X, Billy Meier, Moon landing conspiracy theories, etc). And although it galls me because it seems that our tax dollars are being spent to crap all over the internet and make relevant information harder to find, it also suggests that our intelligence agencies really want to bury this story – which only reinforces its significance, in my estimation.

This isn’t a new or uncommon tactic – it’s a form of astroturfing, which is now an online epidemic. Which is why I get suspicious when a big story like this breaks, and suddenly a bunch of new and previously inactive posters slither out of the woodwork to flood discussion threads with banal/negative/conspiracy comments – that’s just another form of the same strategy: it makes the relevant information harder to find, and it makes the threads so unappealing that casual readers give up on the subject entirely.

If you think my position here seems unduly suspicious, then I suggest that you have a look at this document which was leaked by Edward Snowden, which provides a sense of the sophistication and the breadth of government disinformation operations (PsyOps) which are now a routine feature of online communications:

They're still at it like gangbusters, and some of the bogus accounts posting misleading content today feature Bible prophesy and other rubbish like that very prominently.

There's another batch of particularly obvious disinformation that was uploaded under fake user accounts just today - apparently these operatives are instructed to post a total of 12 videos, because nearly all of them post that number of videos all at once, presumably as a smokescreen for those "secret Pentagon UFO program" videos that have nothing to do with the Pentagon UFO program.

This is such an appalling attack against our public communications system that it should be illegal, and it used to be, but the treasonous amendment to the 2013 NDAA repealed key Smith-Mundt Act protections which threw open the doors for government agencies to conduct PsyOps against American citizens.

I've started flagging them to see if YouTube/Google takes them down. If anyone else can take a moment to report these fake videos using the "Spam or misleading --> misleading text" option, then we can fight back against this corruption of our information system.

This kind of conspiracy theory rubbish actually makes me angry - there's no indication whatsoever that the AATIP story is a PsyOp, and the fact that this YouTube vlogger thinks that "counterintelligence" means "psychological warfare," when in fact PsyOps is only a tiny percentage of counterintelligence work, betrays his ignorance of the intelligence community. There are a lot of good people in the intelligence community, and my take on Elizondo is that he's one of them. And Luis Elizondo's boss wasn't John Brennan, it was Gen. Mattis - we've even seen a quote from Elizondo's resignation letter to Gen. Mattis. Besides, if this were a Deep State operation, we wouldn't be seeing all of these fake videos like the ones I've mentioned above flooding YouTube.

People looking for a government conspiracy are falling over themselves to turn this story into some kind of nefarious disinformation operation, but I have yet to see one credible piece of evidence to support these conspiracy theories that have popped up all over the internet. In fact this reminds me of the conspiracy theories that popped up around Banksy's terrific documentary about street art called Exit Through the Gift Shop, which probably cost him an Academy Award.

Cynical reviewers wanted so badly to "see through the deception" that they wrote a wave of articles casting suspicion on the whole project, but it was paranoid factless rubbish - the film was an accurate if somewhat humorous documentary of real historical events, not some elaborate prank on the public.

Hello darkness, my old friend......

originally posted by: Arouet

This kind of conspiracy theory rubbish actually makes me angry - there's no indication whatsoever that the AATIP story is a PsyOp, and the fact that this YouTube vlogger thinks that "counterintelligence" means "psychological warfare," when in fact PsyOps is only a tiny percentage of counterintelligence work, betrays his ignorance of the intelligence community. There are a lot of good people in the intelligence community, and my take on Elizondo is that he's one of them. And Luis Elizondo's boss wasn't John Brennan, it was Gen. Mattis - we've even seen a quote from Elizondo's resignation letter to Gen. Mattis. Besides, if this were a Deep State operation, we wouldn't be seeing all of these fake videos like the ones I've mentioned above flooding YouTube.

People looking for a government conspiracy are falling over themselves to turn this story into some kind of nefarious disinformation operation, but I have yet to see one credible piece of evidence to support these conspiracy theories that have popped up all over the internet. In fact this reminds me of the conspiracy theories that popped up around Banksy's terrific documentary about street art called Exit Through the Gift Shop, which probably cost him an Academy Award.

Cynical reviewers wanted so badly to "see through the deception" that they wrote a wave of articles casting suspicion on the whole project, but it was paranoid factless rubbish - the film was an accurate if somewhat humorous documentary of real historical events, not some elaborate prank on the public.

I hear people saying that "DeLonge's gesture on the screen tells them everything I need to know"...

I think that's myopic. All the evidence I've seen so far paints a very clear picture - DeLonge has been a huge fan of this subject for many years, and he's a friendly and sincere guy, so over time he made connections and found some good people on the inside who shared his desire to mainstream the topic and develop the propulsion technology exhibited by these unexplained devices. Eventually he formed a group of very reputable insiders and scientists to launch the To The Stars Academy. Hal Puthoff worked on the recovered materials analysis with the AATIP and Bob Bigelow, Steve Justice is exactly the kind of engineer that you'd want to head the research and development efforts, and Luis Elizondo directed the AATIP so he's the perfect ally for getting pertinent info out.

Given this team of very credible people who share a genuine interest in this subject, Tom DeLonge's somewhat credulous take on ufology and his very limited scientific aptitude, strikes me as irrelevant. They've got some serious brain power at their disposal to handle the science and engineering, and Tom is just the glue that brought them all together - plus, he's comfortable with public speaking, so he was the logical choice of a "front man" for the group.

a reply to: Arouet

Who said anything about money. I said disinfo op. Get it together now.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Arouet

Who said anything about money. I said disinfo op. Get it together now.

You didn't take a close look at the evidence I provided - it's extremely compelling: they definitely did this, and it's clear that they did it to muddy the waters to make credible information more difficult to find, and to associate it with garbage. Dozens of new profiles created the same day, posting the same number of videos, using the exact same titles and descriptions. That's obviously an orchestrated effort at obfuscation.

The WikiScanner also exposed Deep State tampering with Wikipedia, back in 2007, and a recent discovery by Craig Murray exposed full-time daily editing of Wikipedia that looks like an on-going and politically motivated effort by the Deep State; I'm guessing the CIA. US intelligence agencies are clearly all over online media and conducting operations as a routine course of business. Also, have a look at "The Art of Deception: Training for a New Generation of Online Covert Operations" document that I provided with a link at the end of my post above which was leaked by Edward Snowden. The Five Eyes intelligence agencies have operatives routinely working online to promote their agenda and to discredit activists. They're also astroturfing social media like Facebook and Twitter. Hillary Clinton and David Brock's "Correct the Record" spent $10M on astroturfing throughout the 2016 election, for example, and Sally Albright was recently caught using bots to amplify the establishment narrative on Twitter.

Abuse/manipulation of online media is an epidemic now.

a reply to: Arouet

this is getting tiring now....

pity you didn't take on my feedback in the post I did earlier..
But I am sat here awaiting with my "fevered Imagination" for you response to this post that will probably be nonsensical and hard to figure out the point your making when you continually undermine your own argument, even with replies to your own posts.

When I said if you re-examine the way that you communicate, you would get more responses and people would see the value in the points that you are trying to make. But currently its nonsense that appears by your own admission, from YT videos et al.

Examine where you are getting your information before buying into so strongly and then just re-spouting it as your opinion.

Your posts generally sound like you have googled "TTSA" "MIC" "CONSPIRACY THEORIES" and then taken whatever you have found as the truth, or what you personally identify as the truth and then regurgitated it onto this thread.

Have you ever done any real research?
Ever visited any of the presidential libraries?
Ever submitted a FOIA?
Contacted / Visited the national archives?

I very much feel that there will be a no to all of the above and personally feel like I am wasting my time by even typing this response. You have pretty much derailed this thread with "googled" stuff and strongly defend it, open your eyes and look at things for yourself.

This is the last response I will be making to any of your posts unless there is anything of value or worth discussing, not that you dont have "some" valid points where discussing, you are not someone I wish to discuss them with.

Have a great day..
Pigsy

a reply to: Arouet

No conspiracy needed. You work backwards.

We want to release x.

What steps get us there?

When do we schedule them?

What channels do we use?

It could be legit, it could be covert. I think either way, it shows a well run media campaign.

First they came for the celebrities.
Then the came for the YT bloggers.
Then we have foreign languages.

Here we are.

My point being, this isn't going aimlessly forward. It's about backfilling from a desired end state.

I'm sure Kev could explain this to you a LOT better than I can. Pity.

I'd say this - if you want to get your hands on something secret, you need a way to do it that doesn't break oaths. You probably lead people to get things out in the public domain. There aren't patents on this stuff. You just need to legitimise access and knowledge.

In my opinion.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: Arouet

this is getting tiring now....This is the last response I will be making to any of your posts unless there is anything of value or worth discussing, not that you dont have "some" valid points where discussing, you are not someone I wish to discuss them with.

Have a great day..
Pigsy

You'll be missed.

1.) General relativity (GR) permits both positive and negative gravitational fields. In fact the negative gravitational field aspect of GR that nearly everyone said was impossible for five decades, is now the mainstream explanation for the action of dark energy that's accelerating all of the galaxy clusters apart.

2.) Bondi and Alcubierre and others have expressed the mathematics of gravitational dipole acceleration within the context of GR in peer-reviewed academic papers that are widely accepted as valid within the physics community. There is controversy about the idea for other reasons, but those reasons fall outside of the scope of GR itself, and generally involve the positive energy theorem - but Paranjape proved that this theorem is inapplicable to our accelerating universe back in 2012-2013.

3.) Cosmic inflation is a central pillar of the Big Bang theory, and it was an extremely superluminal expansion of spacetime, which is also a negative gravitational field effect akin to dark energy.

4.) It's not simply an issue of harnessing extremely high energy densities, but yes our current theory does seem to demand extremely high positive and negative energy densities. On the other hand, we don't yet have a phenomenological understanding of the coupling mechanism between mass-energy and spacetime; we only know the observed quantitative coupling constant. So we may find a breakthrough when we understand this coupling mechanism.

I like the loadstone vs. electromagnet analogy: right now we're in thee same position with gravity, that we were in 500 years ago with regard to magnetism. We only know that if you bring more "stuff" together (like loadstone or mass-energy), you can make a stronger field, and we can calculate exactly how much stronger the field will be with more "stuff" gathered into one place. But once we understood the electric nature of the magnetic field, we could generate vastly more powerful magnetic fields using a small device with a modest magnitude of electric current. I think the same will happen with gravitation. And I argue that this must in fact be possible, because these anomalous aerial vehicles appear to be exploiting gravitational field propulsion (all of the performance characteristics match perfectly), and if those devices were using the energy equivalent of a celestial body, then they'd wipe out all life on this planet with their first field containment failure or other accident in the vicinity of the planet.

And if history is any indication, once we understand how to synthesize a useful artificial gravitational field without exploiting extravagant energy densities, most physicists are going to think "that's so simple - why didn't I think of that!"