Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: mirageman

After that brief but interesting interlude here on the UFO, Aliens and Horticultural Forum

Nice

The "phenomenon" occasionally brings it's children to me. Now that is scarier than bullet proof wolves. Anxious moms trusting their precious things to you are wonderful moments.

Anyway back to the "other forum" for me.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

What?

Anyway for those that missed it first time around, after the original video was taken down, here is Elizondo (suitably suited up and in a fresh change of clothes) at the MUFON conference earlier this year. Here he mainly runs through his time with AATIP and tells us that he thinks his clothes change already occurred.



Sorry he said he thinks "..disclosure has already occurred".

The biggest problem that we're up against is the extreme/excessive secrecy of the DoD. They're only declassifying the most tepid and ambiguous lo-rez clips from these cases. Why people are so quick to blame TTSA for this is mystifying to me.

After the stunning revelation about the on-going >10-year AATIP which officially concluded based on their professional intelligence assessments of the evidence that we are in fact being visited by unearthly devices, and the fantastic Nimitz case where two highly reputable pilots went public with their story, my default position is simple. Just as we saw with the Nimitz case, the video itself is nothing more than a glimpse that something extraordinary happened - what makes that case so striking is the pilot testimony and the additional context that's been revealed. So I think it's fair to presume that each of these other clips are from very compelling cases as well, but we haven't gotten the context to provide the whole picture which convinced the AATIP that this was a truly anomalous event. Maybe they're hoping that by releasing these innocuous little clips, the pilots will come forward, or perhaps the radar operators, to tell the whole story.

But I am troubled that the TTSA statement doesn't seem to be an accurate description of the footage. I really want to know who's writing these descriptions for TTSA and who gets to review them before they're published. First the "glowing aura" in the Gimbal footage turned out to be (far more likely) just regular infrared bloom - an artifact of the FLIR system when displaying a very hot signature. And now this third clip has been described as an object close to the ocean, moving very fast, when in reality it appears to be quite high and the visual speed is mostly just a parallax effect from the speed of the jet, and the object itself is probably moving less than 100mph (and possibly as low as 60-70mph, which is within the range of bird flight).

I strongly suspect that the really interesting aspects of the case simply haven't been revealed yet. Because I don't think that the director of a >10-year Pentagon intelligence program looking into this kind of thing would go through the trouble of declassifying official military footage of a bird. But with the very limited data that we have now, that kind of banal explanation can't be ruled out, which is very frustrating.

a reply to: Arouet

The biggest problem is that TTSA through first DeLonge and now Zondo create the illusion that they are an organisation studying UFOs.

But not one piece of their legal documentation mentions anything of the sort. They are, for all intents and purposes, a giant money shuffle to erase the debts of Tom DeLonge's previous companies and place them on TTSA. TTSA is registered as a "service company allied to motion pictures".

So far they have produced a couple of promo videos and will only give interviews longer than soundbites to George Knapp. George never asks any awkward questions about the financial set up and the lack of provenance (or chain of custody which we were told would be given). In fact George was openly hostile in his last interview with Zondo about the internet naysayers and critics of TTSA. Which was rather out of character and suggests a deeper relationship with the organisation than his public role as a supposedly neutral journalist.

I smell TRONDANT!

a reply to: mirageman

MM, on one level you’re correct regarding TDL’s shady finances but the other aspect is the reality that the government is, again, using TDL to disseminate disinformation.


They were I’m sure, glad to see TDL is but a scammer and is all about his finances and really doesn’t give a hoot about UFOlogy.

Therefore, they can load this group up with utter BS, warp drives and other nonsense do distort UFOlogy as it did through Bennewitz and Moore in the 80’s.

The US intelligence actions regarding UFO’s is to absorb interest by always surrounding interested parties with their agents and infiltrate to distort whatever the truth is.

The truth is out there but is like a jigsaw puzzle where you have some people creating wrong pieces of the puzzle
( disinformation) that don’t fit.

So to get the truth you not only have to do the puzzle but disregard the false pieces the government and others put out there to deceive...

TTSA is a false puzzle piece

The only caveat I can express about TTSA is in regards the possibility that the ideas of say, a Steven Greer and others who claim that the US has advanced technology that can " take ET home”. Something I personally don’t buy.
But if they do have all this scalar weapons technology and warp drive technology, then TTSA may be a convenient vehicle to expose these technologies to the populace.
That may be the reason they don’t even address UFOs on this site.

a reply to: Willtell

You're right about the govt infiltrating the UFO community to obsfucate and outright control the narrative by having influential people on their payroll or duped by them to make it up as they go. Its a pretty successful way to control the noise to signal ratio.

As for having the technology to take et home. There's something to that statement. But it has nothing to do with warp drives or scalar weapons. Neither of which exist or are practical. Don't have to believe me though.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Taking ET home, scalar weapons, and warp drives are three different things that suppose to indicate human advancement into ET type powers. I don’t believe it. I think that they may be trying to misinform us that they have these powers

Thing that gets me if they had this tech why arent they out exploring the solar system or is there certain technical walls that they cant surpass to make it fully safe for human use.

a reply to: Blackfinger

Because, you can't make money off the whole " disclosing " of the tech and concept if it's out there being used as we'd most likely use it for, it wouldn't be disclosed by 90s icons.

Just look at this 152 page of drivel, that I'm not even sure you can consider 152 pages of comments about opinions of this matter helpful, it just does what was originally set out and popularizes the interest that funds their " road trips to nowhere ".

disclosure needs the blockchain to be really fruitful

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Hi BASS, nice to see you out of the aviation forums bud, you and zaph are the ones that made me register..Anyway enough sword polishing...

There has been agenda to control the narrative for ages as I'm sure you know. We have history on our side and if we really examine the narrative "outside" of the MIC, it's the same usual suspects of around 4-5 personalities that always report or "break" a story and this has been in the case for the last 25yrs odd.

I see the whole TTSA thing amongst the other supposedly 3-4 groups just in a tussle to do just that. The end game is funding to "investigate" these things. Tdl wants to be Bluebook 2.0 as do some of the others, apart from the likes that just want more funding for their occultist interests, it's an internal tussle and people being left on the sidelines which is why I think certain ufo personalities are getting thier pants in a twist about being left behind, because the story is "thiers".

The comments about "ufology" being sidestepped and left out of the whole TTSA thing I find quite funny, not many people care. I asked a few friends,coworkers and family members and they didn't care or hadn't even heard of it. Ufology being sidestepped haha...the only people that care ARE the ones in ufology and spectator's such as ourselves.

The man on the street is more worried about paying the bills and how many followers they have on social media and what the kardashian or those annoying people from Essex are doing this week.

If what I think is true...who is thier audience? The irony of the TTSA unveil to an empty room....

Let's see how it plays out...

a reply to: Arouet

I really want to know who's writing these descriptions for TTSA and who gets to review them before they're published

Now that would be interesting!.

So, once again, the DoD has chosen to declassify only the most worthless video clip of this event, and so we yet again have to wait on additional information to understand what was exotic about it.

The TTSA isn't doing this to us, the DoD is - they have everything, and yet they're choosing to release close to nothing.

Robert Scheaffer and John Greenwald both got the name of the program wrong. It's not the "Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program," it's "Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program." That's probably why the DoD responded to Greenwald's FOIA requests with a "no records" determination - they're sticklers about getting program names right (and of course they jump at any excuse to evade compliance with FOIA requests).

Or it's all a giant and elaborate, pointless, and totally illogical conspiracy, like the pathologically cynical tin foil hat crowd wants it to be. Watching the ufology community eat itself over all of this reminds me of The Walking Dead. We finally learn about a 10+ year Pentagon program that concluded that UFOs are real and not human technology, and it's the people who have been writing books about this stuff and shouting it from the rooftops for decades who are trying to make it all into some giant bizarre hoax to convince the public that they were right all along. You couldn't make this stuff up.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: BASSPLYR

Taking ET home, scalar weapons, and warp drives are three different things that suppose to indicate human advancement into ET type powers. I don’t believe it. I think that they may be trying to misinform us that they have these powers

O brother. You're part of the problem Willtell, not part of the solution. Over at MetaBunk you go around kissing behinds, but here your time is almost exclusively devoted to making a mockery of UFO cases and ufology in general (while simultaneously posting totally woo stuff like "by my forensic anagrammatical analysis of [insert name here], blah blah blah." What are you - a wild-eyed new ager who ascribes to anagrams and numerology and Tarot cards "to divine the esoteric truths behind reality," or a die-hard disbeliever who longs to be respected by the debunker community?

Honestly I doubt that you even know the answer to that question yourself. But the perverse glee that you take in disrupting rational debate with weirdly blithering nonsense and misdirection, makes you an adversary, not an advocate, of informed and meaningful discussion.

The facts are clear and simple:

1.) If Luis Elizondo hadn't come forward we'd probably never have even known about the Pentagon's AATIP, and their stunning conclusions about the reality and the non-human origin of these kinds of devices operating in our airspace.

2.) If the TTSA hadn't released the Nimitz video and convinced Cmdrs. Fravor and Slaight to come forward, we would never have gotten their crystal clear and highly compelling testimony about those incidents - which, by the way, is now probably one of the most historic cases in recent UFO history thanks to their impeccable credentials and these unprecedented video clips. When has the DoD ever released video from our best fighter jets of an intercept attempt of a UFO? Probably never - I can't recall this ever happening before.

Sure, this third video (like the other two, honestly) -without the kind of additional context that we got with the Nimitz case- is extremely ambiguous if not outright worthless as evidence of UFO activity. But that's on the DoD, not TTSA. The DoD has chosen to release only tiny blurry brief clips with no real intelligence value. We've just learned that the Gimbal and "Go Fast" video clips are only two tiny segments from a >17-minute mission. Where's the rest? TTSA doesn't have it - the DoD has it. But they're not sharing >95% of that video footage.

So if you actually cared >at all< about this subject (and if you don't, then why are you here in the first place?), you'd be peeved at the DoD for holding so much data back...rather than looking for excuses to take pot shots at the people fighting to get more data released from our government to share with us, free of charge.

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. Crikes.

a reply to: Arouet

Robert Scheaffer and John Greenwald both got the name of the program wrong. It's not the "Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program," it's "Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program." That's probably why the DoD responded to Greenwald's FOIA requests with a "no records" determination -

Nope that's not the answer. Major Audricia Harris, official spokesperson for the Department of Defense inside the Pentagon confirmed to John Greenewald on the 4th March 2018 (or maybe it was actually the 3rd April 2018). As you can see she confirms AATIP’s name was “AVIATION” not “Aerospace.”



See Full Story : www.theblackvault.com...#

Zondo is the guy who claimed it's "Aerospace" and he no longer works for the DoD. So who is wrong?

This is exactly how mental conditioning works. First you see one hoax exposed, perhaps the Billy Meier case. Then another one comes along, like the "Alien Autopsy" hoax. Then another, and another, like the "Roswell Slides" (which actually most reasonably discerning people looked at and thought "why is this thumbnail super blurry and apparently depicting a mummy in some kind of museum-like display case?" and yawned until it all blew over), and then sooner or later your mind becomes conditioned to believe "all cases are hoaxes" and you're no longer capable of independent rational thought. Your mind is made up about every new story before you even know the first thing about it. So you can no longer see any new development as new, but simply as an extension of the old - even when a wide variety of the past indicators of a hoax aren't apparent or applicable with the new development, as we're seeing with this dramatic AATIP story.

Here we have a highly credible and straight-talking former intelligence analyst who worked at the Pentagon analyzing this stuff, telling us what many if not most of us have been saying for decades: these exotic aerial devices are physically real and they're not ours. And in fact their key performance characteristics remain consistent with at least 70 years of observations. We also have a pair of our top fighter pilots describing exactly what happened near the Nimitz carrier group, and why their incident clearly falls outside of any conventional human-technology explanation.

But you and many others are mentally conditioned to believe that every new development is like the previous ones; either a hoax, or a mistake, or an opportunistic money-grab. You're psychologically incapable of sifting the wheat from the chaff at this point. Which is why the rest of us who are still capable of evaluating each new development on its own merits or lack thereof, are so sick of hearing you play the same tired old record over and over again. Just because A and B and C equaled X, does not mean that D equals X. Its a logical fallacy to believe that all cases are false, just because many other cases have been false. New things do happen. It takes an agile mind, not a conditioned one, to see a thing for what it is with clarity and objectivity.

The revelations of the AATIP and the Nimitz case are new - not an extension of the old pattern of hoaxes and frauds. But you can only see all of this through your incredibly jaded, mentally conditioned old lens. And you're convinced that this makes you smarter than everyone else, but in reality you're exhibiting the opposite of intelligence: a completely calcified and immutable mind. You're starting with your conclusion ("it's all BS, like the stuff before"), and then looking for ways to prove your foregone conclusion correct. That's the opposite of true skepticism. And in fact it's identical to cult-like thinking - both are examples of mental conditioning.

I can't fathom how anyone could hear Cmdrs. Fravor and Slaight describe their experiences, and see their exemplary history as Black Aces fighter pilots, and dismiss their accounts as anything other than a legitimate encounter with non-human technology. That Tic-Tac ufo either hacked their on-board computers or intercepted their encrypted transmissions, then darted ahead of them to their CAP point and stopped there. Yeah - they were definitely dealing with a vastly superior piece of technology that made their F-18s seem about as sophisticated as a biplane.

But instead of actually recognizing the incredible significance of that incident, and the jaw-dropping revelation of the AATIP with its 36+ technical reports generated over the last 10 years which are probably game-changing documents that we all know exist now, all we hear from you and your cynical kind are wild and baseless conspiracy theories, personal attacks against everyone who helped to break these stories, and silly wicked allegations of deceitful profiteering.

Enough already. We all know what you have to say about this. So stop filling pages and pages of this thread with your unwavering cynicism retold in a billion different ways, before you turn this thread into a sewer like the last one and somebody has to lock it down, again.

a reply to: Arouet

Arouet, what do you think of the validity or lack thereof of remote viewing since many of the NIDS crew are either pioneers in the government studies or those allowed in the inner circle?

Mirageman: Has anyone in this OP brought up a further interest by some of the NIDS players in mediumship and channelling?

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: Arouet

Arouet, what do you think of the validity or lack thereof of remote viewing since many of the NIDS crew are either pioneers in the government studies or those allowed in the inner circle?

Remote viewing - setting aside the whole issue of whether it works or not - is a specific procedural technique developed by Ingo Swann and others that's very distinct from the commonplace notion of intuition.

Probably everyone I know has suddenly experienced, at one point in their lives or another, an inexplicable certainty about something without any evident causal explanation. Perhaps it's simply hearing the phone ring and knowing that it's some old friend calling before you even look at the phone. Or it can be even stranger, like knowing that something has happened or will happen, for which you have no discernible reason to expect, and then finding out that you were right.

That's what he seems to mean, to me anyway. I think it's a legitimate phenomenon, but the brain and human psychology are very complex systems so perhaps there's a prosaic explanation for it. I doubt it though - it seems like a sensing capability of some kind that we don't understand at all. And if Rupert Sheldrake's experiments with dogs and their owners are legit, then apparently it's been proven to exist with animals as well, because he ran some studies with dog owners being sent home at random times of the day, and apparently the dogs at home ran to the door as if they knew that the owner was on the way home.