Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: Nickless

Thanks for that. I'll read through it when I can sit down and digest it all.

I can't remember were I heard it. But I do remember someone saying Elizondo's immediate boss didn't even know he was working on AATIP. Appreciate you may have covered it in your article. But my question would be.

Do you suspect that whatever Zondo was originally involved with it wasn't exactly what he's been telling us.
Perhaps, ending up as a bunch of Pentagon staff unofficially 'hunting for UFOs' in their lunch hours?

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Nickless

I can't remember were I heard it. But I do remember someone saying Elizondo's immediate boss didn't even know he was working on AATIP. Appreciate you may have covered it in your article.

Can be found at least here:

He says that even his immediate supervisor in the Pentagon was unaware of the program. Only a small list of people scattered in different branches and agencies had a need to know.

www.lasvegasnow.com...

I don't have that in my article, but I might add it there.

But then in the UFO Radio interview he stated also this:

We had some incredible men and women who were part of this effort and I had support from my senior, very senior levels of leadership that the program was in fact to be turned over to one of my successors and that was effectively done.

originally posted by: mirageman
Do you suspect that whatever Zondo was originally involved with it wasn't exactly what he's been telling us.
Perhaps, ending up as a bunch of Pentagon staff unofficially 'hunting for UFOs' in their lunch hours?

I believe your description isn't too far from the truth. Based on the above comment by Elizondo, that bunch of staff may have included some higher-ups as well, but it's a different matter if that was official or personal support. In any case, it seems they had little financial support at that stage (during the AATIP).

In my view one of the key questions is whether Elizondo was ever the program manager of AAWSAP or just AATIP after AAWSAP had ended. At the moment it's hard to tell. I would guess he didn't lead AAWSAP during the first two years it received government funding. He might have been the manager after that while Bigelow was funding it, but what sort of a program was it at that stage anyway? He hardly paid the government to pay him, so the program was probably structured differently at that time already.

a reply to: Nickless

I know that I would not be able to get away with working on something that my immediate supervisor was unaware of. Perhaps on Wednesday's (or whatever day) Zondo was called in by a 'bigger' boss and work for them and it was all hush hush. It's all very peculiar isn't it.

Whatever the arrangement the evidence so far does point to an almost 'rogue' operation to hunt UFOs under the guise of project with a different objective.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Nickless

I know that I would not be able to get away with working on something that my immediate supervisor was unaware of. Perhaps on Wednesday's (or whatever day) Zondo was called in by a 'bigger' boss and work for them and it was all hush hush. It's all very peculiar isn't it.

I have actually been in a position where my immediate supervisor didn't know what I was doing, and I wasn't allowed to tell him, but at least he was aware of that and noted how he wasn't actually able to do any supervising. So to me such a situation isn't that strange and I don't believe it's that rare either.

Since Elizondo has clearly stated he had other duties as well, his supervisor was probably aware of those and his statement may simply mean he was doing that "unofficial lunch hour project" on the side and didn't want to reveal he was using his time on something he wasn't supposed to use it officially.

originally posted by: mirageman
Whatever the arrangement the evidence so far does point to an almost 'rogue' operation to hunt UFOs under the guise of project with a different objective.

Exactly. And based on what Harry Reid himself has said, and what kind of role the first AAWSA program manager seems to have played, it looks like that different objective was a guise from the very beginning.

a reply to: Direne

I said 'affect' of being nonhuman, which a lot of people appeared
to notice, just like they notice the same tendency in me.

"Human" is on a bell shaped curve.. with more common genetic and
neuron-pattern distributions being towards the center, and misfit
scholars, etc. being on one of the edges.

On the metal samples.. you might not have noticed it.. but i provided
web links to two different companies, where for under $1000 one
could get those mystery 'meta materials, or something very
close anyway delivered via amazon.

a reply to: Baablacksheep

I am unsubscribed. I just don't like loose ends.
Don't fret. My last loose ends are about done.

a reply to: mirageman

I just remembered another possible explanation why Elizondo's supervisor may not have been aware of that program:

Although I have an open appeal on the above with the DOD, it is noted they just wanted to forward my request to the Defense Intelligence Agency instead. However, due to the fact that Mr. Elizondo stated clearly he worked within OSD (not DIA)

www.theblackvault.com...

Elizondo has stated he was originally asked to provide counterintelligence support for that program. His immediate supervisor wouldn't have been in that organization, and hence wouldn't have the need to know, especially if he only spent some hours here and there for that support.

a reply to: Nickless

That was a long read. But essentially captured most of the important details.
I've 'stolen' the timeline from your blog as I think it's an essential snapshot of how things have developed.



It seems that Harry Reid basically loaded the details of the 'contract' to run the program. So effectively only Bigelow could realistically fulfil the requirements. Hmm. The government terminated the contract after just two years due to lack of anything tangible. Being actively funded only between 2009-2011.

Possibly (reading between the lines) some people in the government also detected that those working inside it were supposed to be assessing future defence threats. But they were actually using the funds to hunt for UFOs. Despite zero funding this group carried on snooping for military UFO reports/video until Elizondo finally resigned in 2017?
(Or retired with a severange package?)

Then we have the other factors. The drip, drip of information. The fact that the Pentagon seem to be particularly careful what they say about AATIP/AAWSAP and even the characters involved (almost nothing). Then of course there are all the people quaified in neuro-sciences on the TTSA advisory team. They aren't going to build a spaceship.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Nickless

That was a long read. But essentially captured most of the important details.
I've 'stolen' the timeline from your blog as I think it's an essential snapshot of how things have developed.

It wasn't quite long enough for me, as I just posted a follow-up .

I took a closer look at those BAASS employment records, which seem to reveal the program was basically running with significant amount of staff for only one year (slow ramp-up, layoffs 3 months before the second contract year ended):
parabunk.blogspot.com...

Then of course there are all the people quaified in neuro-sciences on the TTSA advisory team. They aren't going to build a spaceship.

Yep, they certainly won't do that, already for the simple reason of not having money:
parabunk.blogspot.com...

They seem to have given severely false information to their investors with their investment counters and have collected less than half the money they claimed. Someone (in the media) should call them out for that too.

Does anyone have any idea why BAASS needed to translate (probably a significant amount of) data from French to English?

a reply to: Nickless

A very random guess off the top of my head would be that they were using the then recently released French UFO files for research.

See : www.washingtonpost.com...

originally posted by: Nickless
Does anyone have any idea why BAASS needed to translate (probably a significant amount of) data from French to English?

The French agency, GEIPAN, had started (but not completed) digitising its files in various batches at the time that the BAASS translators were at work. See, for example:
cnes.fr...

Jacques Vallee had various links to those involved in BAASS and was (and later remained) interested in GEIPAN's files and work. I've presumed that Vallee's interest was, directly to indirectly, behind the engagement of the French translators by BAASS.

I did try reaching out to one or two of those translators via LinkedIn a month or two ago, but unfortunately several of the relevant BAASS personnel didn't accept my contact request. In fact, attempting to get information from BAASS personnel has dragged down my success rate when seeking information in recent months. (That success rate had been steadily increasing for years, only taking significant dips when I've asked questions of some of those in MUFON and in BAASS). Relatively few BAASS personnel have been willing to talk at all.

(BTW When I met with some GEIPAN officials a few years ago, I had an indication from them that they were prepared to work with me in relation to a project regarding their files. I really should chase them up about that...).

a reply to: IsaacKoi

Thank you for the information, that makes sense.

How many BAASS employees you have located or tried to contact? While compiling the aforementioned BAASS timeline chart I found 22, out of which 3 are a bit uncertain whether they worked for BAASS or just the parent company, but there are reasons to believe they worked for BAASS. Additionally I located 3 security guards I'm suspecting might be connected to BAASS (those are not on the aforementioned timeline chart).

I can provide the list of names to you if you are interested and suspect there might be some you haven't seen. I don't have any plans trying to contact them myself.

originally posted by: Nickless
How many BAASS employees you have located or tried to contact?

I've tried to contact about 18 directly working for BAASS and a handful more working for BAASS sub-contractors.

I can provide the list of names to you if you are interested and suspect there might be some you haven't seen. I don't have any plans trying to contact them myself.

Sure, I'd like to see if you have anyone I can add to my list and try to contact.

originally posted by: IsaacKoi

originally posted by: Nickless
Does anyone have any idea why BAASS needed to translate (probably a significant amount of) data from French to English?

The French agency, GEIPAN, had started (but not completed) digitising its files in various batches at the time that the BAASS translators were at work. See, for example:
cnes.fr...

Jacques Vallee had various links to those involved in BAASS and was (and later remained) interested in GEIPAN's files and work. I've presumed that Vallee's interest was, directly to indirectly, behind the engagement of the French translators by BAASS.

l.

As far as I know Vallee was helping Bigelow to construct "capella" which is something like a ufo database and they included various ufo reports from other countries.

a reply to: TheMadScientist2

I may be wrong but I beleive that there was a startup that developed a type of non-relational database technology that allowed new types of analysis. I’d assume this was Capella and it was this technology that revealed certain patterns.

a reply to: ctj83

Found an earlier thread about it:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Nickless

Thanks for that!

It seems that they spent a lot of time deduplicating records, translating and normalising the data.

originally posted by: IsaacKoi
I've tried to contact about 18 directly working for BAASS and a handful more working for BAASS sub-contractors.

What's currently known about those sub-contractors?

Earthtech was obviously one with Puthoff and Davis, who collaborated with Richard Obousy (from Icarus Interstellar).

All that talk about the "human body as a readout system" points towards Kit Green and Garry Nolan. Has there been any confirmation of their involvement?

How about the other TTSA consultants, Paul Rapp and Adele Gilpin?

a reply to: mirageman

Then we have the other factors. The drip, drip of information. The fact that the Pentagon seem to be particularly careful what they say about AATIP/AAWSAP and even the characters involved (almost nothing). Then of course there are all the people quaified in neuro-sciences on the TTSA advisory team. They aren't going to build a spaceship.

Its an intel operation so the officials are treading lightly.


Somebody’s idea inside their MKutra continuing saga. Different name but same modes operendi.

They just waited for a guy like TDL who seems to have faded away.


Interesting how they cloak the supposed search for UFOs in these peripheral bull___ ideas