Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: mirageman

Mirageman, I am certainly not saying that the debris is coming from an UFO: the writer of the link you provided does. Not me.

My main concern is that if we accept the analysis of the debris as a possible way to prove the existence of UFOs, as Mr. Vallee seems to argue, then we will soon run into problems because it can easily be proven that there are lot of terrestrial artefacts with that same isotopic signal. This will be enough to ridiculize anyone stating UFOs exist, and that's a risk one shouldn't take. In essence: never take your chances with something that is a weak proof of what you wish to prove. Debris is a weak proof, and having UFOlogy rest on it is prone to fail.

Remember the debate about the Martian meteorite (ALH 84001 (Allan Hills 84001))? That's what will happen with Mr. Vallee's debris, because it is a weak and highly debatable proof. That's what I am saying.

a reply to: Direne

OK Di fair point.

So when you said there is no debris from UFOs you didn't quite mean that?

I am sure you can see how confusing it appeared. But thank you for the clarification. I assume you actually meant the study of this material Dr. Vallée is conducting is actually an arse over elbow way of doing it)?

As for

....it can easily be proven that there are lot of terrestrial artefacts with that same isotopic signal.

Can you help me out on that one with some examples? Because that would then qualify your point (if I have interpreted it correctly of course)?

originally posted by: ctj83

it might be lost in translation, but that is a very odd way to phrase things? Perhaps you mean nothing by it, but it reads as you are not human?

Are we welcoming our first none human intelligence on ATS ?

Maybe you fired a shot at random, but I think you are right on target. Lol

a reply to: surnamename57

Now for a musical interlude

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: surnamename57

Now for a musical interlude

You gave "it" a treat? "It" will feast on it.

I agree with Direne on this one. I’ve never been impressed by Valle on much of anything let alone his dabbling in metal alloys from space

Distracta

a reply to: Direne

You aren't telling me anything I haven't posted already.

The "Phenomenon" itself acts at the level of pure information
without any "physical basis" whatsoever, or something so refined
that we won't find it for quite some time.

I'll be just a bit more clear.. to show you that I already know what
you are getting at.

Yes.. there is a human element. On multiple levels..

There's the confused human arms race.
There's the confused human occult delusion.
There's the actual physiological manipulation and farming of human brains and bodies.

There is the information element, which in many ways is the
grand puppet master, far beyond anything human, or even
of the "machine intelligence".

Then there is the misbehaving offspring, of both humans and
the "Information Phenomenon".

That is the machine intelligence. And amazingly.. it does have
strong "physical-like" elements, although it's fairly obvious
that it lurks in nontraditional space but can enter traditional
space at will.

It's a form of the 'trinity' so to speak..these three elements..
and the "trinity" goes back a long ways.

But since my friend MM doesn't like core issues to be discussed,
just the way outer layer of only marginal significance.. I'm
going to unsubscribe from this thread.

Direne, if you'd like to talk to me, give me an IM or something
or commit heresy and actually start your own post. If you
come out of the weeds a little more, maybe some of us would
make it worth your while?

Have loved the conversations.

Kev

a reply to: Willtell

The "metal alloys" are part of the disinformation and have
no relevance whatsoever. The disinformation is actually
operating on two levels:

1) The disinformation fooling the scientists.
2) The implicit disinformation and social conditioning
caused by their waving around their ignorance on the
matter.

a reply to: surnamename57

I'll respond to this one.. I doubt you'll get much of a response
otherwise.

After stripping away human delusion and crap conditioning,
in an effort to focus the mind, one does not feel very human
at all.

Now I'm not saying that makes one a bad person.. not at all..
in fact I think it makes you a better person..

That might be the reason for Direne's affect of being a nonhuman.

Add on Asperger's syndrome and the INTJ personality type.. and
you get even further in that direction.

Some of FL might have learned to contact the layer behind the
unconscious mind.. the "many who are one".. that makes one
feel nonhuman too. I'm fairly certain that their ultimate founder
can be described in this way.

Also, if one has been doing that machine-interface training
that some do, then you might get even further in that direction.

Finally, if those weird telepathic chinese-gypsy clan people are
involved in FL, then none of them think they are human.

But strictly speaking, I can't speak for Direne.

a reply to: ctj83

I don't concur with anything JV says since about 2015.
He's allowed his opinions the same as anyone.. and
for the most part, he's a perfect gentleman, and
a pioneer of both the Internet and UFOlogy.

Now I'd say that his IDH dead-ended a while back..
a really great theory for years.. but it doesn't put
forward a testable hypothesis. I believe that JV
has morphed into Information theory.. which is
IMHO the correct direction to go.

But he's fallen in with these highly deluded people..
and I sincerely wonder if it has colored his bright
mind.

But I'm not his mother.. though I tried to be for a
while.. and that didn't turn out well.

Kev

a reply to: mirageman

you actually meant the study of this material Dr. Vallée is conducting is actually an arse over elbow way of doing it)?

It is, indeed. This article will convince you:

The truth about those alien alloys

Can you help me out on that one with some examples?

Mirageman, I think the situation is quite the opposite: you (Mr. Vallee, I mean) are the one to give us the isotopic composition of an alloy that you think is 'alien', and we will prove that isotopic signal can easily be found on Earth. Creating metal alloys with complex isotopic ratios is not difficult, therefore you need to find one, just one, that we couldn't explain.


a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

The "metal alloys" are part of the disinformation and have no relevance whatsoever.

Yes, that's exactly the point. And it is extremely easy to manufacture a chunk of metal with an exotic isotopic composition, drop it on the desert, and then wait for Mr. Vallee to find it and get perplexed about his finding. I propose to use any platinum-rhodium-tungsten alloy, slightly doped with rhenium and some hafnium. That will keep them busy for a while. Or we can mix that up with some samples from a meteorite to complicate things a bit.

That might be the reason for Direne's affect of being a nonhuman.

To be honest, I never said I am non-human. Did I? However, this leads us to a very interesting question: do we know what's like to be human? As far as I know there is no clear definition of what's to be human. We don't even know what consciousness is, we don't even know what is what makes someone human and what not. I feel a guy looking for chunks of metals in the desert, in his belief of their alien origin, is more human than a non-believer devoted to serial-killing or school-shooting. In fact, I tend to consider more non-human this latter person...

But I tell you something: I am convinced they three - the guy in the desert looking for aliens, the guy in the dark with a knife waiting to kill any passerby, and the guy ejecting chunks of metal from his UFO - are all humans, whatever that means.

a reply to: Direne

Imo, alien metals or alloys ought to be monoatomic to start with. Now have we found them among the alien artifacts. dont know, tho i have the tech to generate monoatomic metals

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: surnamename57

I'll respond to this one.. I doubt you'll get much of a response
otherwise.

After stripping away human delusion and crap conditioning,
in an effort to focus the mind, one does not feel very human
at all.

Now I'm not saying that makes one a bad person.. not at all..
in fact I think it makes you a better person..

That might be the reason for Direne's affect of being a nonhuman.

Add on Asperger's syndrome and the INTJ personality type.. and
you get even further in that direction.

Some of FL might have learned to contact the layer behind the
unconscious mind.. the "many who are one".. that makes one
feel nonhuman too. I'm fairly certain that their ultimate founder
can be described in this way.

Also, if one has been doing that machine-interface training
that some do, then you might get even further in that direction.

Finally, if those weird telepathic chinese-gypsy clan people are
involved in FL, then none of them think they are human.

But strictly speaking, I can't speak for Direne.

Are you trying to convey the idea that it is better to engage in conversation with a robotic poster than a human doing exactly what some remote human controller wants or needs in order for their manipulative schemes to succeed?

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

'I'm fairly certain that their ultimate founder
can be described in this way".


How are you so certain Kevin?

I see you say you are unsubscribing from this thread ? But then continue to talk? What am I missing here?

"I feel a guy looking for chunks of metals in the desert, in his belief of their alien origin, is more human than a non-believer devoted to serial-killing or school-shooting. In fact, I tend to consider more non-human this latter person..."

Isn't the above an example of pure and poor artificial intelligence?
Humans tend to keep away from stating things that are clearly true and require no proof or explanation.

No more comments on this from me. It's silliness to deny ignorance of bots.

a reply to: surnamename57

I think you've cracked it.

a reply to: ctj83

No, you did it! Lol

a reply to: surnamename57

"No more comments on this from me. It's silliness to deny ignorance of bots'.

Lol.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

But since my friend MM doesn't like core issues to be discussed, just the way outer layer of only marginal significance.. I'm going to unsubscribe from this thread.

I am fairly liberal minded and believe people have a right to air their views. But my threads are often dragged way off topic. Polite requests for them to be brought back on topic seem to just get ignored.

Surely a new thread would be a better place to discuss what I consider marginally relevant or even totally irrelevant matters. Perhaps not enough people are interested in such topics and such debates to sustain any such new thread. But that is not good enough reason to continue off-topic in an existing thread.

I'll leave with Gary Numan...it's not off topic.

originally posted by: mirageman
So we have an anonymous Pentagon source claiming that AATIP was there to prepare for aerospace advances by foreign adversaries.

That's what AAWSAP was officially supposed to be, but based on a review of available information I just did, that seems to have been more like a smokescreen Lacatski, Reid, Bigelow and some others invented for handing out government funding to Bigelow's UFO research. For all that I can see, AAWSAP and BAASS (which was apparently created for AAWSAP) were not Project Blue Book 2.0, but Bigelow's NIDS 2.0. AATIP was nothing but an informal low profile limited focus continuation for AAWSAP, run by a bunch of people who got overly excited about UFO research during AAWSAP. Hard to say if the AATIP program was somehow official, completely unofficial, or sort of semi-official.

Details here:
parabunk.blogspot.com...