Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: beetee

I agree with your assessment regarding the egos of academics. Very well put.

Much of what TTSA are/will be working on, from my understanding, has become “proprietary “ due to government funded black projects and corporate secrecy. For example,TTSA is working on getting Hal Puthoff’s work product released back into his control, or at least to be able to be “shared” legally with TTSA.

Some of the “secrecy” has to do with where the science was originally being developed- ie above top secret black budget projects within a tightly guarded corporate/government agreement. You are correct that this leads to current suspicion regarding anything coming out of that sphere, as our government did a good job of painting the entire subject matter as buffoonery and insanity.

But we know that was a deception on their part to protect themselves, the perception they needed to protect the public from panic, and to hide their own secret investigation into such potentially threatening matters as the Phenomenon and UAPs. This began in the Cold War era, after all, and our government had just ended a war via a black project. We had captured German Paperclip scientists to work with who needed to be kept secret too. We JUST learned recently in the last couple of years that Area 51 is real!!

Look at the Manhattan Project, for example. It was completely compartmentalized so that no one really knew what they were working on as scientists. This is the reality. How many medicines are being developed as open-source? How many of Tesla’s projects are up on the web for all to see? Exxon’s? Lockheed Martin Skunkworks?

UAP and the Phenomenon have never been “open science.” I believe that TTSA may POSSIBLY be trying to get to the point of at least taking aspects of clandestine research to the public, for the benefit of the planet as well as Disclosure (albeit at a slow drip). Yes, there are “government players” involved, but if you think about it, how could there not be??

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear


My apologies for not doing a better job of going after the ball, and singling you out at first in my reply. Truly I am sorry. It is something I strive not to do as I am also “ better than that.”

Peace to you.

I hope you stay but I also understand you doing whatever you wish to do. I left political discussions pretty much entirely here, and have only recently had the courage to come back to my original topic of enthusiasm here at ATS. I would very much hate to be the cause, in any form, of you leaving the discussion.




ETA - I feel very badly. I’m a hypocrite for doing unto someone else what I do not wish done unto me. My frustration is not an excuse.

Back to keeping my own mouth shut.

-AB

a reply to: AboveBoard

You can be very sweet, thank you for that apology.

I don't know if you think this or not, but I try VERY hard to be fair
at all times on ATS and in my private life.

But I'm coming to believe, that both UFOlogy and the paranormal
have become "bought and sold" in the USA. There is a mountain
of evidence to support this.

It makes me so sad...

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

You’re welcome. Everything of any value is bought and sold. (There are a few open-sources exceptions out there produced by the idealistic and grant-fueled.) It is not the only way it can be but it is certainly the way that it is. It would be nice to have the old definition of “heroic journey” applied, where the hero returns and freely gives his boon back to the community/tribe. So many forces, especially human avarice and fear, have negated that concept throughout much of the world.

I tend towards some spark of optimism, however, even stacked against the worst expressions of humanity and how we seek to use such “powers.”

The Phenomenon certainly isn’t going anywhere...I think we get out of it what we ask for. “Seek and ye shall find...”

Peace.
AB


Carry on ATS.

a reply to: AboveBoard

The Phenomenon certainly isn’t going anywhere...I think we get out of it what we ask for. “Seek and ye shall find...”

If that's the case, why are you and i only finding lies, lies and more lies?

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: AboveBoard

The Phenomenon certainly isn’t going anywhere...I think we get out of it what we ask for. “Seek and ye shall find...”

If that's the case, why are you and i only finding lies, lies and more lies?

Kev

But I'm not finding only "lies, lies and more lies." I never said that. I see both. The "good" is not all gone, at least not in my limited world and, therefore, worldview.

The Truth is Out There, KPB. And its coming for us, ready or not...

a reply to: AboveBoard

I do like your sunny disposition.

It would probably be fun to drink wine coolers and play
uno with you.

LOL.

But my autism and INTJ personality type, where I analyze every
tiny fact and let nothing go, means that you and I will seldom if ever agree.

Fortunately the world (and ATS) is big enough for us both.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear


I am INFP lol! A rarity at best. I thought I might be a J, but if one has any waffling about it, generally that negates the whole J thing... lol!

INFP's make good poets and outcasts and "sensitives" of various kinds.

(I know a lot about autism, as my son has it (severe, non-verbal), but its a different kind that you experience.)

We don't agree very often, true. But being an INFP, I'm used to that.



(I'm a mean UNO player! But my other son has the magic UNO touch - undefeatable!)

a reply to: AboveBoard

I thought I recognized your personality type.. my wife is your type.

She's 1% of the population and I'm 2% of the population.

I keep her out of trouble by sniffing out issues before they happen,
and she keeps me from being all negative and helps me live in the
moment. We are a POWER COUPLE LOL.

I like how we'd probably be friends in R/L.

On ATS however, I can't do the rose colored glasses thing.

BTW, I've found nearly all of my answers.... most of them
are unpleasant however.

I imagine you've found many of your answers too... and they
are pleasant (but I'd say they have no logical foundation whatsoever).

Ok... well back to regular old ATS where most people don't seem to
get along very well.

Kev

a reply to: mirageman

I told you they'd buy him off. No longer little green men but a lot of green money is at stake!

Another snippet of information and also a plug for one our member's (CardDown aka Curt Collins) personal blogs.

The latest blog is written by a guest, Roger Glassel, a writer for the Swedish quarterly magazine "UFO-Aktuellt".

It's a long piece about the laborious process involved in FOI requests. However the gist of it is that Roger's research has led him to believe that there was also a project called the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications. It may even be the offiical name of the overall project

......Conducting a web search, combining "DWO" and the titles of the reports, I found that two of them - "Traversable Wormholes, Stargates and Negative Energy" and "Warp Drive, Dark Energy and the Manipulation of Extra Dimensions" - were available for download on the Internet.

In these two reports it is stated that, "the report is a product of a series of advanced technology reports produced under the DIA DWO Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications program (AAWSA)". The content of the two reports also correlates with the content of the study topics that Dr. Davis has openly stated he wrote for the AATIP. ....


....AAWSA, if not the same, would seem to be closely related to AATIP, so close I thought it would be worth adding it to my FOIA request about the videos. It was important to have this information added because if, and I say if, the AAWSA program turns out to be the true name of the AATIP, without it, my request might be returned with a "no records found".


Source : www.blueblurrylines.com...

It is also interesting to note that approaches to Leslie Kean and TTSA..

I have reached out to Leslie Kean - who was the co-author for the original NYT article about the AATIP - asking her to make the release documents public. Her answer to me was that the NYT has the documents that say that the videos was cleared for public release, but that background documents provided to the NYT by their sources are confidential until their sources say otherwise. Of course journalists have the right to protect their sources, but I told her that I did not fully understand how documents from an official release authority or review office could be considered as a source that need to be protected. Her answer was however the same.

I have also tried to reach out to TTSA asking them for the release documents.

Source : www.blueblurrylines.com...

Needless to say Glassel has had no luck obtaining information from TTSA.

a reply to: mirageman

Great job Curt!

No kudos to you this time MM, you get too much recognition already..
don't want it to go to your head.

Now... on the content..

Really good content here...

We know, that according to Kit Green, there have been fake government "UFOs"
sent after nuclear weapons sites to test them... which of course would have
promoted the false theory that there are nuts and bolts alien craft...

would have tested nuclear site preparedness too..

and of course would promote the idea, that we need to have funding to
"fight the aliens".

We've already discussed how AATIP was using the fear card.. it makes perfect
sense there was a mother/daughter project to build weapons.

now on this subject..

I have been catching up on my reading... I'm so far behind... 4 years behind in this case..

"Enter The Valley: UFO's, Religious Miracles, Cattle Mutilation, and Other Unexplained Phenomena in the San Luis Valley"

there is a teeny snippet in there, about pickup-truck mounted EMP devices called "Joshua"
that supposedly are being used in the valley to "fight UFOs".

Now:

1) Sounds total BS.. like its intended to reinforce the fakery bout nuts and bolts UFOs.
2) Would actually work against "theoretical sentient BOL".. that would be interesting.
3) MIght actually exist... and since south central colorado is hugely in the pocket of the
military.. huge presence and testing there.. it might be a legitimate weapon, used
against real targets.. and somebody just joked it was about fighting "UFOs".

Does anybody (hint hint BP) know anything about this "Josuha system" ?

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I don't want any kudos as it's actually the work of Roger Glassel, a fellow European and guest on Curt's blog.

We know, that according to Kit Green, there have been fake government "UFOs" sent after nuclear weapons sites to test them... which of course would have promoted the false theory that there are nuts and bolts alien craft...

Woah! what are you talking about?

a reply to: mirageman

Rick Doty: "Kit is also a close and long-standing friend of Rick Doty, who he talked about with unguarded warmth and respect, though he was forced to admit that sometimes Rick's actions could be both puzzling and frustrating." (p.278.) "We talked about the use of quiet helicopters 'disguised' as UFOs to probe security and nuclear installations. 'I'm pretty sure that it happened' said Kit, following up by hinting that he may have met a man who claimed to have flown similar missions." (p.278.)

Reference: Doctor Christopher Green - Part I

Sounds pretty clear and unimbiguous to me.
I suppose you could call Kit a Liar or Jacques Vallee or dispute the reference,
but it seems quite a reasonable claim to me.

Dr. Green is mostly down to Earth and likes scientific explanations.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Sounds pretty clear and unimbiguous to me...

Hmm....Of course being friends with Rick Doty does not make one guilty by association. But....

"We talked about the use of quiet helicopters 'disguised' as UFOs to probe security and nuclear installations. 'I'm pretty sure that it happened' said Kit, following up by hinting that he may have met a man who claimed to have flown similar missions."

If we assume that games have been played, were played and are still being played today. That sort of clouds the clarity and leaves ambiguity to me.

How pretty is 'pretty sure' rather than being totally sure?

How pretty is pretty bare from being totally bare?



Lighten up Kev.....that was not serious.



ETA:

The same source also says

"Kit, John and I spoke for some hours, initially about the Serpo material, which, to our surprise, Kit took more seriously than we had expected. 'There are certain facts in there,' he told us, 'certain references, that prevent me from being able to reject the material out of hand, even if the story that it's telling is patently not true.' The Serpo material, or at least some of it, Kit suggested, might have served a purpose to someone, somewhere, perhaps conveying information in heavily codified form. One of the ways you can assess the value of information is to watch who is drawn to it, and Serpo had caught the attention of some senior players in the defence intelligence field..." (p.278.)

Very interesting. Who could be a senior player in the intelligence field? The obvious answer is the person conveying this information? Who else?

a reply to: mirageman

Well it was my theory, which I talked about with JV 5 years ago,
that they had been doing that.. so perhaps it's selection bias
on my part.. that 2 famous people/"insiders" are agreeing with me..

I certainly don't trust RD at all.

The point is.. it doesn't make the government sound good..
that it's even just "probably".

Now the folks deceived by the governments nuts and bolts psyop/
mythology would say that this reference is disinfo
used to cover for real physical UFOs.

Well if that's the case, it's a very buried and obscure reference..
it's doing a terrible job as a psyop if it is a psyop. Hardly anyone
even knows about it.

I do need to loosen up..

come on over and have some wine coolers with me.. I'll spring
for half the travel costs.

a reply to: mirageman

I took that serpo thing to be a trap that was played,
just as much or more INTERNALLY.

The I.C. wanted to identify the Collins Elite and other
screwballs who were UFO/Occlult worshippers, and
so let this fabrication be leaked.

They got to see who the internal screwballs were..
plus it did all this collatoral damage to UfOlogy.
win/win.

That's my take on it.. but I'm far from an expert
on this cloak and dagger stuff.. in fact I don't
even consider myself a UFOlogist.. I'm
a shaman/kundalini yoga scholar of sorts
and all this "UFO" stuff is just what I fell into
while investigating something else.

you tell me...

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I've never heard of this "Joshua" system. but that doesn't mean anything.

in my opinion I think it's likely BS. but allow me to play devils advocate here for a sec regarding proposed EMP vs "ufo"

in my opinion EMP would definitely cause havoc with "ufos." let's say there are two main types of ufo that operate in our atmosphere. one uses a superconductor as a critical component. the other is a funky antenna set up. EMP wrecks antennas so the antenna ufo is toast. it will have to restart while falling like a rock. probably possible but will it be able to do it in time before it dirt torpedoes. short pulsed high energy EMP causes ( if it's powerful enough to get over certain thresholds) thermomagnetic instability in the magnetic flux propagation of a superconductor. especially any associated semiconductors or josephson junctions. it Fs up the superconductor pretty bad and very quickly. not really possible to fix on the fly...or in this case falling like a rock ufo. so yep if powerful enough an EMP will do bad things to a ufo.

but it has to be pretty damned powerful. probably more than what a truck can cart around realistically. who knows what the classified output is on military grade stuff. finally proximity matters a lot. over a few kilometres distance I personally don't think a truck mounted EMP device will have enough power to get over the needed threshold. so that truck would have to essentially ambush a ufo hovering over a field or pretty close by.

finally why test that stuff that's closely guarded and classified with the intention to disable it in a place where the public may be able to complicate matters regarding retrieval. do that over dugway or something not San Louie valley.

military equipment is largely designed to be able to withstand EMP attacks. and the best way to get the power needed for the pulse is with explosions and bombs. not a capacitor array in a truck.

so for the above reasoning I believe the story is BS. but it could be some other type of non EMP weapon being tested on things like ordinary drones etc.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

in my opinion EMP would definitely cause havoc with "ufos

. . . .and phased RADAR arrays like the Jindalee over the horizon system here on Oz. Exmouth too probably.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Good feedback. I don't disagree.

But one question for you...

if primitive monkeys like us could use EMP and disable the tech of a ship
thousands of years ahead of us.. why on earth would aliens be stupid
enough to come here, and poke the homicidal, dangerous monkeys
who like to blow up anything they don't understand?

I have to imagine your answer would be "they wouldn't".. and that
any aliens that actually do come here in a stupid fashion (in a ship)
would be armed to the teeth / force fielded to the teeth, stealthed
to the teeth, and ready to nuke us from orbit to make sure.

Which is also silly.. a simple autonomous probe would be better
for all involved.

That story sounds like more of the same disinfo from the government
to me.

Thanks,

Kev