Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Now I think that various groups within the halls of power / the government have been TRYING for a universal UFO/new Age religion for some time..

People that couldn't HANDLE the truth.
Those of us that silently ACCEPT the truth despite our limited resources try to keep an open mind.
THEY can still shut us down.

a reply to: The GUT

So, I am quarter of a way through the second Vallee book now, and it is interesting.
I will come back to you when I have finished it.

I went a head and bought Alexanders last book too, just to see where he is coming from.

Thank you for the tip :-)

BT

originally posted by: beetee
a reply to: The GUT

So, I am quarter of a way through the second Vallee book now, and it is interesting.
I will come back to you when I have finished it.

Truly looking forward to your thoughts and insights.

I went a head and bought Alexanders last book too, just to see where he is coming from.

Thank you for the tip :-)

My take away from that one is the basic beliefs Alexander and some of the crew have come to about what he calls PSP ( I'm not sure if that nomenclature stuck with the "crew") and that Alexander seems to have totally missed the existence of the AATIP.

That he missed the AATIP in his "high and low" search leaves us with only a few possible conclusions. Further, I would say that what we've learned here in this excellent thread further narrows the conclusions we might come to in regards that glaring fact.

a reply to: The GUT

It seems to me that people love to share speculation.. so that they can further refine
their persona theories.

but they don't tend to share hard data, as they don't tend to have any.

As for PSP, it's a good term.. I used to use it..

but honestly, and that's all mama's pretty bear does.. even "dumb" BOL
can appear to act intelligently.. due to following invisible conductive
paths. Basic high school physics.

So perhaps some of the reason that JA came up with the term is in
fact delusional.

At the end of the day, 95% of the "Phenomenon" might fall apart.. when
we get just a little more understanding.

Oh --- I think there are nonphysical intelligences out there.. but we
just don't understand them.. we get all tripped up with our own
wants and needs and psychology and project onto that real 5%
behind the 95% misunderstood and disinfo'ed.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

but they don't tend to share hard data, as they don't tend to have any.

Everybody has hard data…themselves. The question is whether that's a problem or a solution or a bit of both

I read Alexander's recent UFO book—he’s no dummy—very intelligent guy.

On the AMA I asked him about Puharich and all he said was something like: Sure I knew him, very paranoid guy, he thought the CIA was after him.

Strange response because Puharich was a very important person in his field and his work allowed for guys like Alexander to be. Seems like that was the establishment response.

Het GUT what’s your feeling on J Alexander---is he on the up and up or in with the bad guys?

a reply to: Willtell

At one time, "naturalists" and "observation" of nature were cornerstones
in science.

Not any more.

Witty point.

originally posted by: Willtell

Het GUT what’s your feeling on J Alexander---is he on the up and up or in with the bad guys?

I'll just mention one of many reasons that I personally find him a black hat: He co-authored a paper with his son on the militarization of the police force and it came across as pretty fascist in its inspiration. He's made many statements about the "dangers" of "conspiracy theorists" as well. That coming from a guy who is convinced of PSP and spoon-bending.

He's the type of guy who thinks using the word "Patriot" about one's self is suggestive that one is a terrorist.

Then there's this bit of ufological history:

I was disappointed Colonel Alexander did not provide me an opportunity to discuss Martin Cannon with him. I would very much like to hear his current thoughts on Cannon-related events.

Cannon published The Controllers: A New Hypothesis of Alien Abduction, circa 1990, in which he explored the possibility some reported abductions might actually be the results of Manchurian Candidate type covert research projects such as MKULTRA. While it is readily apparent the colonel would publicly assign no more value to such a publication than to use it as kindling to light the coals of the grill on which to hoist Martin, I am more interested in how Alexander might comment on his relationship with Cannon than what he would obviously say about the man's work.

For example... Alexander's wife, Victoria, reportedly telephoned Cannon in 1993. She allegedly informed Cannon that Alexander and Hal Puthoff were very angry at Cannon, for whatever reasons, and that Gordon Novel had been called on to handle the situation, whatever the situation and details of its handling specifically may have been considered to be.

Col. John B. Alexander, Gordon Novel, and Victoria Lacas-Alexander

Writer/researcher George P. Hansen explained he personally heard the recording left by Alexander's wife on Cannon's answering machine. Hansen wrote:

Alexander has spent some time with Novel and has flaunted the affiliation, perhaps in an attempt to intimidate others. Martin Cannon, an investigator who has written on government mind-control projects, received a call from Alexander’s wife on May 30, 1993.

She left a message on his answering machine saying: “Martin, as an ex-friend I have to warn you. John and Hal [Puthoff] are really pissed off at you. And they’ve given the matter over to Gordon [Novel] to handle. Watch out.” ...Cannon was well aware of Alexander’s interest in UFO abductions and of Novel’s background. He was quite alarmed, and the day he received the message, he called and played me the tape. I suggested that he alert a number of people in the media, and he also notified the FBI.

I would find it interesting to ask the colonel about the matter. Was he actually pissed? If so, why?

ufotrail.blogspot.com...

Oh lookie...there's Hal Puthoff again too. Really good article from Jack Brewer the above quote is taken from.

ETA: This is an informative read too: Non-Lethality: John Alexander

a reply to: The GUT

Excellent post.

The "glitter" falls rapidly off the aura of the big names in UFology,
with just a few bits of info like this.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Yes indeed. I think I've said this with slight differences a number of times in a number of threads.

One aspect that was mentioned way back is that there were a bunch of crazy Christian fundamentalists with high ranks in the US military. They supposedly believe UFOs are demons and so wanted AATIP closed down.

But what if they weren't really crazy or believe in demons and Greek Gods? What if the old guard at the Pentagon have slowly slipped into retirement and the old boy networks have finally broken down?

The unaccounted for billions are being closely scrutinized. Especially since the Trump Administration came to power.
A career as a 'defence contractor' raking in $$$ in government grants means producing something useful and cost effective not wasting money studying your pet theories and hobbies. The track record of 'old gang' is no longer seen as providing a useful service. Perhaps they've all been told they are being 'let go'. No more funding for the weird stuff.

But one last favour would be that they'd all be put in touch with Tom DeLonge.

Nobody knows for sure of course.

a reply to: mirageman

Yes sir, you've certainly said similar things, thank you.

I guess I'm talking out loud today.

To myself mainly.

(No, i'm not answering myself)

Kev

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

One aspect that was mentioned way back is that there were a bunch of crazy Christian fundamentalists with high ranks in the US military. They supposedly believe UFOs are demons and so wanted AATIP closed down.

But what if they weren't really crazy or believe in demons and Greek Gods? What if the old guard at the Pentagon have slowly slipped into retirement and the old boy networks have finally broken down?

The unaccounted for billions are being closely scrutinized. Especially since the Trump Administration came to power.
A career as a 'defence contractor' raking in $$$ in government grants means producing something useful and cost effective not wasting money studying your pet theories and hobbies. The track record of 'old gang' is no longer seen as providing a useful service. Perhaps they've all been told they are being 'let go'. No more funding for the weird stuff.

They actually dusted off the exact same excuse that they used for why the RV program was shut down. Hilarious considering their own out there beliefs. Also keeping in mind Puthoff spent no telling how much money to become a "Clear" in Scientology and the time he spent hooking up eggs to an E-meter. (Why did the Chicken cross the road? Because it was "Clear.")

I think it's a pretty good bet you're closer to the mark in that they've produced nothing of substance so they have need to blame someone other than themselves for all the, ahem, egg on their face. 🐒

a reply to: The GUT

I'm glad that I've only studied UFOlogy for around 5 years..
to go so far on the journey, to basically get all the answers,
but the answers that 95% of it boils down to:

some crazy old physicists and spiritualists conned the government to spend all
this money on nothing.

the intelligence agencies though it was a good gimmick, to convince the soviet
union that we had alien tech.

Nowdays people believe they see UFO's in their breakfast burrito.. so the I.C.
doesn't have to do much anymore.

There's a little weirdness in the world.. but nobody understands it yet.

I'm glad that I only spent 5 years of my life to discover the "truth"
about UFOlogy. I'd rather have gotten ice cream sammitches or something
as a reward, not that.

But things are what they are. It's better not to be deceived.

Kev

a reply to: The GUT

Yeah, it seems like a UFO mafia and they gang up on the turncoats like Puharich and this guy you speak of and label them paranoids and worst.

The club has to stick together

Yeah, what’s ominous about these guys is their association with the IC and military, two legalized cults of killers and worst.

And when you add psychic powers, oh my goodness!

a reply to: The GUT
So far, through the eyes of Valley, the whole government UFO thing seems pretty much like a gaggle of individuals with an interest in the Paranormal. I find it funny that the guys in the intelligence community are suspicious that there is someone in the Airforce studying ufos. "The Dark Airforce".

Also interesting is that one of the theories the intelligence guys field is that the clandestine study is being done in the private sector.

Sombody is clearly spending money quite freely (like buying people new cars and whisking the old one away after an ufo encounter) and nobody seems to know who it is.

I am only halfway in but I recommend the book heartily. A great insight into the various characters that have shaped ufology and the study of the Paranormal. As long as we remember that it is through the eyes of one person, so pretty subjective.

Cheers

BT

For posterity here is C2C AMs interview with Luis Elizondo from the end of February this year.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Smugallo

Unfortunately while the supply of snake oil is probably unlimited the demand is almost certainly finite. Greer's market share is under threat from this new project. In both cases the aliens seemed to have been framed.

I have to admit MM,. its been interesting to watch certain high profile people within "Ufology" lose their minds and work to discredit other up and coming people within their "community" when it is obvious that their livelihoods depend on it. When money talks, morals and good decency walks.

Listening to Wilcox talk about Delonge on Fade 2 Black is a prime example of this, jealousy, self-delusions of grandeur and financial gains and losses blind people from seeking out the truth, or in my opinion seeking out the lies that they believe to be true.

a reply to: The GUT

loving this GUT, you could even put the RFI down to psychotronic weapons testing on military personnel to test effectivness of said or similar weapons, how best to hide it?

Mask it as UFO in nature so the breadcrumbs lead to a house of infinite lies rather than the bland but horrifying truth.

a reply to: pigsy2400

Virtually everyone who is a 'regular' on the Paranormal media circuit should be considered an entertainer and nothing more. They play to the gallery and give the audience what they expect and want to hear. Trotting out the same old, same old themes. It's like a faded rock band that hasn't had a hit song since the 1980s playing the same hit list night after night to their small but fiercely loyal fan base.

This is why most ufo cases never get resolved. Even those that have been debunked thoroughly or proven as fraud never quite die. They just get laid dormant for 10 years or so and then bingo! Some personality brings the story back into focus claiming government cover-ups to discredit the 'real' story. Roswell, despite the flimsy evidence it was anything unearthly, can never be allowed to die. It is the pillar which ufology has to keep standing for fear everything will collapse with it.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Roswell Slides story gets revived around 2025 by a self proclaimed 150 year old "Investigative Journalist" who hosts Mirth Files. It was all a cover up you see.