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What to do about Afghanistan?

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posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 04:18 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I say America and the UK should BOTH leave Afghanistan alone, because we have shown that on a national level, neither nation can be trusted with the task, and we have already had enough time to see that clearly. We need to back out of all interests in the region, and let things fall out how ever they will, because our meddling has never improved a damned thing in that place in all the years we have been tinkering with it.

Bombing only creates more terrorism, invasion only creates more terrorism, any visible action, attempt at diplomacy, any move we make in the least bit, creates more terrorism, and that is because the recruitment strategies we taught the Afghans are solid, as are the indoctrination methods we showed them, methods they hand down to the next in line, to this day, and have done since western intelligence goons taught those tactics to the first recruiters in those cartel groups, decades ago.

The problem was designed from the get go, to be unsolvable by means of international or unilateral military action, by means of diplomatic activity, or by any active means of any kind. The only thing that has not been tried, is ceasing the flow of weapons and money to the terror groups, from Western nations, who STILL, to this very second, operate supply missions to groups like ISIS, AQ, and others, despite alleging to be fighting against them, and sticking to that method for decades, to starve the problem of the resources which keep it running.




posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 04:30 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit


Hold on a mo - I am not American, I am English, born and bred, thank you very much.

You are saying that it is totally justifiable to wipe out the US because you think they are fascists and that that is not the least bit fascistic? You think that wiping out millions of Americans (genocide) is justifiable?

Bloody hell, there is quite some irony in that last paragraph of yours!



posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 04:33 AM
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a reply to: oldcarpy

If you are English, then I expect a damned sight better simple reading comprehension out of you.

I did not say we should obliterate America today, or next week, or next month, things being what they are at the moment. I said that if they use nuclear force to try and correct their own mistakes, then we definitely should eliminate America, because it will have proven in using those weapons in that way, that it cannot be permitted to continue to exist, because it will pose such a grave threat to the rest of the species, that to allow its continuance would be to doom the entire species either to tyranny or the threat of nuclear oblivion.

Learn to damned well comprehend what is, and is not being said.



posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 05:06 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit


I am sorry, but there is no need for you to be so rude and condescending.

You are the one that is advocating genocide as the solution to your fantasy and the irony in your opinions remains strong.



posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 05:35 AM
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a reply to: oldcarpy

First of all, there is every need for me to express in the fullest terms, and without any sugar coating what so ever, exactly what I think of your ability to comprehend the written language we share. To come to the conclusions you have come to about my statements, you must either be intentionally spinning my statements to suit whatever dross passes for a world view in your mind, or simply be incapable of correct comprehension of the language.

I care not which it is, I simply demand that you either raise your game, or cease attempting to communicate with me until you are prepared to do so either honestly, or from a position which is equal to the task of understanding what I have written, correctly and without bias.



posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 05:37 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit


While I am at it, just how do you propose that "we" eliminate America without dooming us all to "nuclear oblivion" given the inevitable and rather dooming nuclear retaliation by America that would inevitably result? Not a good outcome.

This is not joined-up thinking.



posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 05:45 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit


My goodness, someone seems to have got out of bed on the wrong side this morning.

I think that I will agree to your demand that I cease communicating with you as I have no wish to engage in what will obviously be only a sterile and forensic debate and as you have chosen to come over all pompous and insult me I will simply bid you "Good Day".

If it's a battle of wits you are after you should know that, as a matter of principle, I never engage an unarmed man.



posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 05:59 AM
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a reply to: oldcarpy

We, as in the international community, as in the UN and every affiliate thereof, taking unified action, similar to that taken by the Allies against the Nazis.

Theres no way the US could respond to that , without removing the strategic, economic and industrial cornerstones of its own existence.



posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 06:29 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

So we leave the drug cultivation and processing infrastructure and tuck tail?

Unless the UN is going to 'not bomb it but somehow kill it' then that isnt going to work.

And CIA etc will still be running the dope.



posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 07:06 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss



And CIA etc will still be running the dope.


And here, this sentence above, is one of the key reasons why US foreign policy is a total shambles.

The correct solutions to the issues that the US has caused globally, are for it to rescind ALL involvement with the region, INCLUDING the intelligence assets and financial assets it has in the region, without fail or exception.

If the President of the United States wanted an end to the problems in the Middle East and beyond, the first thing he would do is have every US agent involved with the drug fund operation, arrested, publicly tried, with no hidden courts or secrecy respected at all (on the basis that anyone put at risk by the truth of these matters coming out, deserves every single ounce of threat posed to them by its coming out), and put in jail. He would then issue a decree that any and all persons working as part of an agency, contracted by an agency, contracted by any department of government, or by any representative thereof, caught operating a black funding operation of that nature, anywhere in the world for any reason, will be arrested, tried, and if convicted, either thrown in jail for the entirety of their natural life, or dragged in front of a firing line, and swiss cheesed, like the traitorous dogs they are.

Reigning in the CIA, the NSA, the DIA and other agencies responsible for providing weapons, supplies, and financing for proxy armies, and operating contraband networks in support of those proxy armies, is the FIRST step, and that should come before drone strikes, boots on the ground, or any form of air strike order is even contemplated. While the CIA are not controlled by the govermment of the day, there can be no solution to the problem at all. Getting them well and truly locked down and told their fortunes therefore, is an absolute necessity, something that Trump would have known all along, if he had been paying the requisite attention to the geopolitical situation of the last several decades.



posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 07:11 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Well here we need a POTUS whom isn't in on the dope game, which all my indicators says Trump isn't.

But then we need such a person to truly understand how deep and thick the corruption works regarding said drugs games.

My Wars on Drugs Report the past week does that like never before, but how the hell could we ever expect a POTUS or any one else important to ever encounter such a thing is the great mystery...

While the thing is since I've now realized it just isnt even possible to put history into perspective anything even resembling reality, we're truly all the blind being led by the blind.



posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 07:25 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Having a POTUS who is not in on the dope game is all very well, as long as he knows the dope game exists and is more determined to end it than he is allow it to continue, and has the necessary sharpness of wit to outflank any attempt to either protect it, or rekindle it.

If he fails in any one of these, then his intention means very little.



posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 08:14 AM
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Let’s stay there and spend money on a bunch of foreigners. Now that deficits don’t matter we can do it all.



posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 10:15 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Wellhe's going after afghan labs, the border, int'l cartels. When you scrape away all the MSM style talking points, and the damned NK issue, its almost like thats all he's up to espeically considering the domestic policy on the matter which sucks so far. It'd make sense to ramp up street busts if trying to truly do 'the WOD thing' right for once in one sweeping motion turn it upside down, but not on pot. Pot users arent going to net them narcotics traffickers. SO dude really isnt messing around at all so far.

But there still leaves the Corruption part which without the right briefing one just cant even fathom just how deep widespread encoded into the system it is.



posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 10:16 AM
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a reply to: MOMof3

We still have the drugs supply angle. And Al Qaeda does deserve to die. Leave them there with their drug cash system and they shall flourish , especially now they've gone proper transnational imperial power mode.



posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 10:19 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Yeah that’s bad. I guess it’s worth 17 trillion, so far.



posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: MOMof3

Afghanistan doesnt cost THAT much LOL.

The missing $10T DOD loot is for their "AGI Manhattan Project" (DARPA+ Google 'Skynet' tech to unlock immortality tech so the elites can become omnipotent 'immortal' 'gods', type BS).



posted on Jan, 5 2018 @ 10:42 AM
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originally posted by: nwtruckerSo your solution would sacrifice the Ukraine to Russian re-incursion to save Afghanistan..

Have you ever considered working for the Diplomatic Corp??


Hahaha why not. Be a change from factory work lol


Yes I do believe Ukraine should be left to influence from other than EU or NATO. That does not mean USSR style incorporation, rather a true independent Ukraine neither NATO or CSTO aligned that can be a buffer between the major centres of power. Pushing right up to the border is madness and shows no respect for Moscow.

By accepting Russia again as a great power in its region by giving it influence over its near abroad then partnering it central asia and the middle east, all the silly jihadi islamic crap can be sorted in time. Until then stupid games will be played out and by continuing the flames of conflict new Beslan style attacks on Russia and 9/11 style attacks on the USA are going to happen.

A united Russia and USA can really sort the world out. Divided the world will continue to suffer.



posted on Jan, 8 2018 @ 06:15 AM
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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

And again, the only things he should be doing about the opium situation, are actions which need taking against the intelligence group members and influential figures who orbit that community, NOT actions on the ground in Afghanistan. Correcting the presence of amoral, self serving entities in the intelligence community, will bear better, stronger, more long lasting fruit, than blowing up drug labs, and putting the torch to a poppy crop.

The reason I say this is simple. To begin to attack the problem at any other place, other than at the intelligence community level, will ensure that any efforts gone to are largely meaningless. Where one starts is absolutely imperative, the most important aspect of dealing with ANY issue which even resembles this one. You start where the impetus lies, and the intelligence communities of at least two western nations is where the impetus to grow this particular crop originates from, and it has to be said, the majority of that comes from the American part of the global intelligence industry.

Correcting that, by arresting, trying and convicting all persons who have been involved with that business, from the American side of the dispute, will be far more effective long term, than just removing some easily replaced or replanted infrastructure from the theatre in which this is all playing out. As proven time and again by drug enforcement efforts in Mexico, Colombia and other South American nations, affected by CIA drug peddling operations, attacking the crop or the farmers does not work well enough, fast enough, because the underlying enemy just ups and starts again elsewhere, with the backing of millions upon millions of dollars of US taxpayers money, not to mention dark budgets, generated by illegal trade engaged in by intelligence entities in the US.

Removing the people who decide to spend that money in that way (intelligence officials) from the field of play, making punishment for any activity which even SEEMS similar to theirs, so harsh that no one would dare engage in it, and having standards enforcement in the judiciary and the intelligence community be so tough that to even try to evade, avoid or fool the system in the slightest regard is a capital crime, would be far more effective, far more quickly, than dropping any number of bombs, or using any number of troops, anywhere on the face of the world.

While there is a source of funding at the ground level, while there are people in the very organisations which are supposed to combat this sort of thing, actively engaged in promoting it instead, the problem cannot be solved, no matter how many thousands of pounds of explosives, no matter how many millions of dollars of munitions are delivered to whatever number of targets one might reasonably come up with. He is, essentially, wasting time and money on a problem which already does that perfectly well, left to its own devices.

And heres the real crux of it... There is no justification for bombing opium fields, unless you make sure that the organisations running them (NOT AQ or any other such nonsensical, braindead collective of inbred religious fundamentalists, but the people who control them) are broken up from the top down, and all executive level collaborators are either shot or incarcerated, this will keep happening, because the black budget from which these operations are run, is larger than the one which is officially kept in reserve to help dismantle them, and always has been.

This is a decades old, systemic problem, and solving it at home, BEFORE performing any other action, is an absolute must. I know this, and I think in your guts you know this, and the fact that we, laypersons, persons at street level, without special access, know this based on the empirical evidence available even to us, but HE does not appear to know it at all, suggests that Trump either has no capacity for deep logic, making him unfit to perform the job he has, OR that he has no intention of preventing intelligence money from being used to manufacture either drugs, or terrorist cartels, for the purpose of attacking the very nation he swore to aid in the protection of.



posted on Jan, 8 2018 @ 07:08 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Here's the thing about WOT in Afghan: Since 9/11 we been down there attacking AQTaliban, but not the WOD there [drug supply] (their economy). Meaning was never going to 'end'. The situation on year 3 the same as year 13. Etc. Perpetual.

The economy itself regular people trying to earn a living coupled with 'the bankers' (AQTaliban) and 'the banks' (heroin drug labs). The 'banks' have been there just open for business, beacons for the farmers to do they do. WTF would they do any different than money pod plants with that bank sitting over there 3KM away?

Then we have the 'foreign industrialists' (CIA ISI MI6 etc). Argh. No accountability: THAT needs to change obviously. They need to be CUT out of the equation entirely at this point. Disbanded. Heads rolled down the bowling alley.

Then we have other actors that dont inherently fall in with / into that 'industrialist' umbrella: DEA, UN, Peacecorps, ag/crop remediation outfits, etc. Many already there in various capacities. They need be stepped up.

BUT if the bankers are there wide open for business, in fact there's nobody there to oppose anything to do with their full spectrum operations aside from a government just as likely to copy their model verbatim, then nothing will change in the slightest. If anything it would run even more well oiled, meaning more AQ operations across the world. Which even if CIA etc isnt on the ground with them getting their hands dirty, if they're still 'out there' with their tentacle network across the world then it goes unchanged on the broader scale past the point of origin.

Now the fields dont require millions of pounds of bombs. They arent buried in dense mountainous jungles like Columbia. The labs (500 of them currently) those you blow up. Fancy mud brick huts probably the bulk of them. Sure they can go mobile but you start there it shouldnt cost a trillion dollars to messy up 'the economy'. Now their terrorism side of the business starts to falter down. Now go in with DEA/UN and flamethrower those big vast open poppy fields. And the trucks behind them are the NGO whatever 'here's the new crops you can grow and make a living' seed trucks and goats and snip. Now that part takes ore time. But without a FIRM helping hand they arent going to change. Without bombs the 'banks' arent going to bust. Without guns the foot soldiers arent going away.

And to do nothing at this stage, lets not forget we did that to the little people there, well praise be tar, burqas and brutal overlords forever there, unimpeded int'l drug supply abroad.

Imagine if Pablo Escobar was never opposed. OR, he became president after his terror campaign. And after he did we said 'ya know what, you win, good beans'. That's what you're proposing with a total pull out and forget about the spilt milk, except the implications here is whether with or without having friends on CIA, AQ/ISIL have adopted an int'l imperialistic organizational model. Escobar just wanted to be left alone in and enrich his beloved country. Escobar just kilt who got in his way. AQ wants Islam to rule Planet Earth and kill all non-believers.

Then we have our own imperialist tyrant wannabe's, the Neocon types , you wanna see their ways rule the world well hand AQ their unhindered drug economy, pull out, and just like in Afghanistan all these years where we attack their troops but not their banks well there's gonna be a never ending flow of new troops to fill those slots, as will be the case abroad so there the Neocon's get their never ended terror army across the world to hunt down until the end of time.

Then there's the at home angle, but until there's a CURE for heroin addiction the addicts arent going away. It just isnt worth putting themselves thru the trauma of the going clean as the world is / until hitting bottom, the bulk of them, where trauma in their lives is the reason they started and continue in the first place. Making it less easy and more costly to get is one method of attack. Minimizing new users via less on the streets is another approach. Then there's the decriminalization way, of particular for those already addicted. But that's for each society to sort out, like going clean is each addicted individual, and is beyond the scope of debate here.

Trump, seems to have made the first logical choice with 'actually getting started for the first time' with the place like ever. But argh. How much he really understands about the behind the scenes thats been driving it all who knows. This is why the contents of my Wars of Drugs Report needs to be understood and screamed for change by all.
edit on 8-1-2018 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)



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