For Those Countries That Use The English Language. A Question.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Atleast our Aussie brothers and sisters are doing a good job of enhacing and keeping it going. As London seems to be a city of mixed cultures and of mixed immigration alot of the old London accents seem to be dissappearing/shrinking or are replaced completely but its proberly been the same for the last 1000 years.

I am fully assimilated. My parents raised me on English and tried to add Spanish every now and then, but I did not care for it. They are fully bi-lingual. My Spanish would probably get me killed though in Latin America.

I can get by in the states in Spanish areas, but Im pretty sure I would be kidnapped and held for ransom anywhere else. I think English is the best language ever developed, and the whole world should adopt it universally.

It incorporates its origins from all over Europe, and since Europeans conquered much of the world during the colonial era much of the world can understand it with moderate ease.

It should be known that there are foreign companies and governments that speak to each other in English during business meetings and trade negotiations because it is easier than having translators for their respective languages.

This has been bought up before and the answer will be the same.Language is an active evolving thing, but sooner or later, for a successful world, there must be one language base. At the moment the international language is English. Eg. no matter what country they come from pilots the world over, when in international airspace, speak English.
No matter what you want to call it, strine, dialect, patois, slang etc. is alright to get by in your small, and I mean small, communities but the moment you go out in the real world YOU have to communicate, YOU have to make yourself understood and whether your talking to an English speaker or French speaker it's YOU that has to be understood and be prepared to understand what is being said to you.
At the moment English is the dominant language (don't spout on about "oh there are more Chinese speakers in the world" as the Chinese are learning English like there's no tomorrow) new innovations are named in English, they may have a local dialect name for a start but soon reverts to English.

americans think they invented the english language, so we're all good on national identity here. full up to the tits, really.

a reply to: alldaylong
What are English people supposed to do? We currently speak a dialect of German, which was imported from Germany- mixed with a little French, imported from France. Not to mention occasional bits of Hindustani imported from India.
As for the French, they themselves speak what Julius Caesar would recognise as a degraded version of Latin, imported from Italy.

I think that phenomenon solves your problem. When a semi-isolated population is allowed enough time, the language they have imported develops quite naturally into a language of their own. The Yanks and the Ozzies have already begun the process.
Since it happens naturally, where is the need for anyone to make a conscious effort?
It could only be artificial, and artificial languages don't work.

a reply to: alldaylong

I always call what we speak here in America as "American English," because there are plenty of differences not only in colloquialisms and how some words are used, but also in sentence structure and formal writing.

But, no, I could care less if we have our own unique language--it's a reminder of our heritage, and just because we broke away and started our own country doesn't mean that we magically need a new language.

All these posts and not one mention of history
They were or still are colonies of the British Empire in one aspect or another ?
Why not speak English in a bastardized form ?

originally posted by: alldaylong
This is aimed at members who live in countries such as Australia, New Zealand, The U.S. Canada etc.

The above and other countries have adopted the English language. Would you prefer to have your own distinct language ?
To me, language is part of a countries identity. Having to use a language from elsewhere takes part of that identity away.

Thoughts ?

I live in central New Jersey. We do have our own language. There is a K sound in the word schedule. Sorry, I don't understand your question.

a reply to: DISRAELI
Your first sentence is quite correct, as I said language is a living evolving entity. Hence why the OED adds new words and saying every year.
Now your wrong with your second sentence. You would be right if it was 200 years ago but in todays world there are very few semi-isolated communities (maybe in the Andaman islands or up the Amazon, but to claim America or Australia are semi-isolated is quite erroneous.
The only artificial languages today are those languages (I'm sorry to say this) are those that are portrayed as part of any national identity. Like Latin they WILL become dead languages.
New words or phrases will be incorporated into the English language and everyone else will follow suit. Eg. Go ask any one in Europe how the spell and say computer. The word derives from Latin into an English word a long time ago:- Putare:- Computare:- Compute:- Computer.
Now ask a Welshman or Gael what is their word for computer and rather than say computer they would give you a made up word (because in their pedantic world they want to be different) they would have to invent a word or use an old word phrase meaning the box that adds up.

originally posted by: crayzeed
... but to claim America or Australia are semi-isolated is quite erroneous.

It is true that modern populations are not as isolated as they were in the past, which is why I chose to say "Semi-".
Let's put it this way; America and Australia have indeed been developing their own version of the language, so there must have been some degree of isolation to make that possible. I suppose that will continue, unless the internet has enough conformity-enforcing power to put the brake on linguistic divergence. I can't see that happening unless offline socialising with neighbours and local colleagues ceases altogether.

a reply to: DISRAELI
Let me put it this way to you. On ATS there are a lot of nationalities American , Australian , French ,German etc. now why don't they post in their language, their twang, their pidgin language.
WHY ?? Because they are communicating with international people and the universal language is English. Their sub language is that, subsidiary, secondary and the sooner they realise that the sooner misunderstandings can't occur.

a reply to: alldaylong

Well don't ask me I'm from Liverpool and I speak Scouse, same about anyone from Tyneside no one can understand them either.

Way I see it is that with all the US TV that has been exported around the world we are all actually really speaking american these day's anyway - except rappers who the hell can understand that lot of martian's.

a reply to: alldaylong

Language is a huge part of identity. Where I live, western Canada, first nation tribes are losing their languages at an exponential rate, where the only place to hear or learn them nowadays is from a few elders.

That being said, English and the anglophone world as a whole is great. Identity is a ridiculous reason to want ones own language.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

That is actually a brilliant point and sorry to everyone about my earlier pun, what you say has to take into account also this about the English Language, it is not just English but periodically has and will always continue too adopt new and often non English word's into it's own use, it is really an international language and so over time it morph's and adopt's new phrases from other linguistic group's which if successful then spread throughout the English speaking world.

Aghhh the gremlin of the double post strike's again.

a reply to: crayzeed
Part of the answer to that question is that the rules of ATS specify English as the language of the forum. I have seen someone being pulled up for posting a thread in Spanish.
Even so, it is possible to see new divergences developing. One important factor is the growing habit of "spell as you pronounce", presumably because younger people are spending less time reading old-fashioned books. When this habit is combined with sloppy and/or localised pronunciation, the result is the creation of new words. For example, the word "mang". People have used that word in posts addressed to me, and I had to inspect the context very carefully before I could work out that it must be some local pronunciation of "man".
When I was working in London, again, I noticed how the meaning of "loan" and "borrow" were being reversed; "I need to loan some money, so I'll have to see if the bank are willing to borrow it to me".

I 'm sure that increasing illiteracy and sheer wilfulness will continue to be powerful forces resisting the growth of conformity of language.
I suspect the brave new world of a single uniform language will be a long time coming, and even then it will be a very unstable state of affairs.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Worse than that with all the mobile phone texting and abbreviations I can not understand half the kid's at all these day's.
And of course my own grammar was never that good but even I complain about it, must be getting old.

a reply to: alldaylong

I'm from the US and although we speak English the accents vary greatly from location to location. Talk to someone from Texas, and then Minnesota, and then New York, or Chicago. You'll soon see that they all really speak their own language and in a way have their own identity. We love it!

originally posted by: alldaylong
This is aimed at members who live in countries such as Australia, New Zealand, The U.S. Canada etc.

The above and other countries have adopted the English language. Would you prefer to have your own distinct language ?
...
Thoughts ?

The whole reason that English was adopted though was because people from the British Isles colonised these nations so it was as much their language as ours. English stopped being the language of just the British a long time ago. It is probably our most successful export.

But now it belongs to all of us who speak 'English'.

Whether we like it or not, because of TV, movies and the internet we are also adopting phrases and words we might never have done a century or so ago. An Englishman may still drive to a petrol station to fill up. But he might put his foot on the gas if he's late for his mate's 'barbie' (weather permitting of course). We still throw our rubbish into a dustbin but get annoyed when someone trashes something we've said on the internet.

I do think it's a shame that many old languages are dying. The Navajo code talkers did their bit to help the Allies win WWII. Latin is a dead language but in some ways it lives on through science and it's influence on modern languages today remains.

However one major advantage to having a global language like English is becoming is that it removes communication barriers.

"C'est la vie" I guess

a reply to: DISRAELI

I've purposefully put words into conversation (interpose?) that are out of context but seemingly sound correct.

For example :

"My dog was brooding for a walk, I had to take him out even though it was 1am"

It's fun seeing the words come back round being used out of context, I also find it highly interesting how words are used, how they affect us and how their meaning can be changed over time.

I 'm sure that increasing illiteracy and sheer wilfulness will continue to be powerful forces resisting the growth of conformity of language. 
I suspect the brave new world of a single uniform language will be a long time coming, and even then it will be a very unstable state of affairs.

The problem comes when shorthand abbreviations are the basis of your language, texting has a life of it's own. I hated the idea of shorthand writing as a kid, in fact I was never good at language at all.

But I try and I've noticed I tend to only learn words properly by actually using them, a person's lexicon is usually related to what they do though. I don't believe day to day interaction (in the written form) can be a good indicator of the state of literacy.

Many people "write" these days that wouldn't 50 years ago, it may be the case that less people send letters or keep journals but in the general sense of things more people are writing, I could be counted as one of those people.

So the opportunity to see atrocious literacy is much higher, language can be intimidating in a formal format, personally I've always been intimidated by literature and it's proper use. My literacy could be graded by my posts here at ats, I haven't gotten much better...

One thing is for certain though, most of my generation are good at getting their point across with fewer words. I don't feel literacy has much bearing on the essence of what communication is.

The future is emojis and maybe the occasional grunt or pointing finger.