Perhaps the oldest christian church in Jerusalem that you don't know about

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Those are historical recordings and God has not given any one that mandate since he brought Israel into the land of Canaan.

God always had a "if" as far as Israel occupying the Holy land . Tell us all what the new "if" is ,seeing you think God has brought the Jews back into the land . Are they to keep His Sabbaths ? Maybe God would make it conditional on accepting His Christ ? ! just a thought .

originally posted by: glend

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: LABTECH767

Ismael is not the inventor is Islam, Mohammad was, a fornicating, child molester, Epileptic, who claimed to have visions from an 800 wings Angel he said was Gabriel.

Do you understand the words that Jesus spoke in Luke 6:37 ?

""condemn not, and you will not be condemned"

Condemnation of others only stregthens our ego which is the source of our sins. So we condemn ourselves when condeming others.

Aisha may have been 14-19 years old as determined here. If true or not, forgiveness rules.

That is not actually true, the Islamic population have had scholars as well and of course there texts have changed significantly.

Now let me ask you something, does a 14 year old bring her toy's, she was supposedly 9 when her hair grew back after her hair fell out on the wedding night and so it was supposed to be when she was 9 that he then consummated the marriage, except that it was AFTER her wedding night as a six year old child that the Rose of Damascus lost her hair - hair does not just fall out but trauma can and does induce hair loss, shock to the body and the mind.

There religion has not Evolved it has been made as the century's passed by so that there modern Quran is actually very different to there oldest Quran.


And she was SIX years of age as outlined in there book






She was six but it then say's that he consumated the marriage when she was nine, Walid Schoebat whom is a former Muslim turned Christian explained that this was because all her hair had fallen out after the wedding night and under cleanliness law's he could then not go back to have sex with her until her hair grew back or it would have been regarded as unclean.

But Muslim's are constantly trying to refute this IN THE WEST because they know we could not stomach that kind of abuse.

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64: Sahih Bukhari Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six?
answers.yahoo.com...

From this page as Narrated by Ayisha herself He Consummated the marriage - had sex with her when she was 9 but married her when she was 6 and her hair fell out, recorded as after a fever which of course a six year old child WOULD have after that at the very least.
www.answering-islam.org...

QUOTE
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.
End of QUOTE
I shall not read the whole page but references to SIX and NINE are repeated throughout it again and again so I encourage you to read the page.

I shall not debate it with you any more if you are not willing to research it yourself, there are too many appologists for that passage and too many lying trying to say she was 14, 15 or 16 when there own text say's otherwise, when in places like Yemen marriage to six year old children is common because of this and indeed they often DIE on there wedding night or worse.
www.liveleak.com...

And as for the HARM to our society's that APPOLOGISTS are causing let's take some point's in case shall we.



Of course this type of Harm is being driven by evil people whom think it is OK to brainwash there own children and those of others as well so in fact the Islamic presence in Europe is actually by far and way's not the most evil thing happening, have a look at this and try not to vomit or lose your temper in rage at the fact there are people in positions of authority indoctrinating children like this to be brainwashed good little citizen's.
talk about Sodom and Gomorah.


This is just perverse but made me chuckle as I remembered a certain Jim Carey scene from a cetain movie.



This does not mean they are all evil however, this I still find absolutely repugnant but in Yemen there are still fathers whom love there children but to feed there other children sometime's find themselves in situation's were they have to accept payment to allow older men to marry there young daughters as in this case.


Now this as I have shown above is NOT a case of different folk's different stroke's, they are bringing there culture with them including child marriage - not all by any mean's but enough that it is a serious danger to our own social morality which is already constantly under threat and attack from within.

There are however one very obvious bunch whom want to say this is fine and to make us adopt the approach of "IF it ain't me that fine then" by eroding our empathy and care for those around us, making us numb to the suffering of other's and replacing morality with mercantile belief's and they are the pro pedophilia campaigners whom want to legalize child abuse and all manner of exploitation not only of children in that way but for there own economic profit as well, look at the big corporation's using child labor around the world.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

1. Condemn also means to criticise ( judge), according to the dictionary.

2..The internet is not a guage of what is truth. Islamophobes use a haddith as the source of their truth ignoring that they were written many centuries after Muhammads death. Haddiths were prohibited in Muhammads time because they believed the absolute truth was contained in the Koran, it needed no amendments or explanation.

So our ego will easily accept a particular haddith as truth because it reinforces our hatred. But we will renounce Historia Josephi Fabri Lignari with its claims that Joseph was 70 and Mary 12 because it doesn't, So we need to constantly stand watch our motives to make sure we are not reinforcing our ego.

3. The Christian concept of original sin came from christians that had limited understanding of the Torah as explained here by Jews that do. So there are no free tickets to heavon. Unless we change and become like little children, we will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

4. Yes agree "we are not said to forgive someone who has not asked for it". But in effect its alleviates our sins, so has purpose.

a reply to: LABTECH767

"14 year old bring her toy's" I have cousins that still have all their toys (dolls) and they in their 50's.

You don't need repeat all the propoganda on this site as I have seen it all and dismayed by the tactics used to try destroy anothers religion. Take for instance the picture of those children attending a wedding with older men. What it doesn't tell is those older men were their fathers attending a relatives wedding. Their children were the bridesmaids, So that propoganda allows filth to enter our mind from a picture from an innocent wedding. And even one picture can reinforce our hatred a millions time over.

So stop dancing with the devil and attend your own mind before pointing your finger at others.

Now saying this I do realize the world is dark. But think the only way to improve it is to light it from within. And GOD knows I am not trying hard enough

a reply to: glend

Christians have nothing to do with the Torah, that is solely for Israel.

We Learn from the precept of God word in the Torah and the rest of the OT but we are not bound by it.

But he NT is what man should be concerned with today for it is the light for one to follow and once they believe on the Christ for their salvation then they are the body of Christ and their are epistles for them to learn from.

But I hate organized church. They teach for the sake of a job and not the things that are practical. I meet men been Christians for 40 years ans they are still babes in Christ, Elders in the organization but babes. They do not know how to judge properly, how to communicate with words to one another, pride the old sin is still very much alive.

Literally the devil was kicked out of heaven and fell right smack down in the pews the organized church.

I started a home group based on principles and truths most pastors never touch. One of them being something that is not once found in the NT, where is it said a pastor is a elder or a leader of the church?

there is a gift called pastor and teacher but not once is that person said to be a leader. we are told to communicate with the one who teaches but it doesn't say anywhere he is the spiritual head of the organized church assembly. The books hey call Pastoral Epistles doesn't even have the word pastor in it either direction for 40 verses or more.

Search and see if what I say is true or not. If not true then I will let you condemn me all you want.

There is a whole lot more that would free the body of Christ from the organizational restraints men have put on them. Not to mention being under the control of the IRS via a 501c. I am telling you now, the Devil has pretty much made the body of Christ an invalid via the organizational church.

We the Believers are the church not some building ran by a man keeping people in diapers and feeding them milk until the gathering of the saints into the clouds to meet Jesus ever more to be with him. The so called Reverends, Elders, Bishops, Popes and Pastors and what ever else you want to call them are a JOKE!

a reply to: glend

First of all "You Shall have no other God before me".
Allah is NOT Jehovah he is a pagan moon god and also a Mesopotamian God of Chaos and Rebellion - Hmm REBELLION, MOON GOD HORN's.

Do NOT offer strange fire unto the Lord.

There was a period in the time of the prophet's when there was error as many thought that God was the same God as that of the Zoroastrian fire worshipers and actually many of there prophet's are very similar to the prophets of the Abrahamic tradition but NOT identical and there's is a dualistic religion unlike Abrahamic faith and in Zoroastrianism which is more closely related to Hinduism but a version which sees the Hindu Deva's as demon's there God Ahura Mazda - the Good one created a companion at the beginning of all thing's Angra Manyu whom like the Devil Satan thought he was better than his God so rebelled but in that version he was not a devil but a God created by God and there was no Michael to cast him out.

It also disagree's on a great many point's as well as being NOT an Abrahamic faith, Fire offering's to the Lord confusing him with the pagan deity were therefore wrong and were not to be mistaken for correctly offered burnt offering's of the period before Christ came.

And I would also advise you this, it is NOT propaganda, Propaganda as you use the term is lies though Truth can be blown out of proportion and then used in that manner and stereotypes conducted to use any given group as a scapegoat to blame for all the ill's of the world as the Nazi's did to my own relatives the Jewry of Germany and Europe BUT these facts on the other hand are actual Fact's, do you think they would respect YOUR point of view - don't fool yourself they would impose Shariah on you in an instant if they could AND destroy your sacred site's or as they have with both the Jews and the Christian's impose a steep tax for non believers in there religion and also limit there places of worship or as is the case in Saudi Arabia ban them entirely.

Do you think that being kind to a hungry wolf is correct, do you think that showing such weakness in the face of your enemy will make him take pity.

Our Religions can NEVER be reconciled because only one can be true and only the watering down of religion, the control of it can even approach that but at the cost of the religion itself and of the culture and society it has built up so that secularists can proclaim themselves correct and worthy over the corpses of there own ancestors whom actually BELIEVED while at the same time ensuring that there own children will either NOT be born or will end up being member's of that other and far less tolerant religion.

Christian's would accept them but are forbidden from having them as friend's by our own law's or did you miss that part about not keeping company with pagan's and the immoral, they however can NOT accept us, there false prophet changed his rules more than once and on one occasion was having Christian's and Jew's killed (in fact he ordered an entire tribe of Jew's native to Arabia wiped out and there woman - the one's that had not been married taken as slaves because they had refused to accept him when he had claimed to the Messiah) but on another was telling his men to not harm the people of the book as he called the Christian's and Jew's, similarly he once told his followers (whom had started out as bandit's and outlaw's that he had convinced to follow him and raided caravans' into Mecca as an act of vengeance for being exiled form that city) that the Woman of Persia - he HATED Persian's for some reason - would lay down on there back's with there leg's spread for them to rape them.

So I put it to you that Intentionally or unintentionally it is misguided people that are claiming the Truth is LIES and burying not only there head's in the sand but trying to blind other's at the same time to the truth THAT are actually spreading Propaganda, they are in fact unintentionally serving the secularist one world corporate government and in effect DAMNING the human race by there action's, creating godless society's as we see beginning to happen throughout Europe and weakening the Entrenched NATIVE and BENEFICIAL religion of Christianity within Europe, this is actually a deliberate policy and both an extremely and unapologetic-ally Evil anti Christian one and also one that is set to destroy our society's NOT unite them.

Ever heard the word's DIVIDE AND CONQUER.

So I put it to you that you are wrong NOT correct and remember.

You hypocrite! First take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. 6Do not give dogs what is holy; do not throw your pearls before swine. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

Your interpretation is actually NOT correct, WE Christian's are your brothers' and sisters - if you are also one of us though we are indeed told to love our enemy's and pray for them, to bless those that curse us but that does not say they are our brother's, are they off the sacrament of the lord.

Cast Not your pearl before Swine if you do they may trample them under there feet and then turn and tear you to pieces.
We take refugees in but they are not fleeing death they are coming for economic opportunity's and our own kid's are being disadvantaged by sickening policy's such as pro-discrimination which is actual Discrimination against our own people and as for tearing us to pieces, what is happening with Europe right now, rape's, the migrant crisis driving nations out of it and worse.

So let them burn down our church's, build there mosques, misguide our children by converting them to there false religion and that is all hunky dory for you is it.

What of the parable of the three servant's.

Even the worst buried his coin, he never made increase but he certainly did no create decrease for the kingdom of God yet he was a wicked servant whom lost all and had it taken away from him then now what does that say of the servant's whom are decreasing the Kingdom of God NOW taking away from Christ to give to Islam and destroying faith to create secularism which is a mere pipe dream dreamed up by anti god atheists whom think that they can then make the whole world atheist when in fact all they are really doing is making room for the spiritually starved children to be misled into corrupt and wrong faith's.


But anyway you folk's have Well and Truly succeeded in taking this thread well and truly off track, I can only hope and pray that someone more worthy makes a proper thread about that site and so shall leave it there - and in some disgust and shame at myself for falling into the obvious trap of going of thread in response.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Search and see if what I say is true or not. If not true then I will let you condemn me all you want.

No need to search, I agree with you.

The so called Reverends, Elders, Bishops, Popes and Pastors and what ever else you want to call them are a JOKE!

Their job is to entertain the masses that only want listen to a sermon or two so they can be labeled a Christian. You on the other hand realize the task at hand and want far more. Perhaps the only way to acheive that in todays age is through prayer and meditation. Searching for the spiritual teacher within. Helping others by sharing your knowledge and experience is very kind.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: glend

Our Religions can NEVER be reconciled because only one can be true and only the watering down of religion, the control of it can even approach that but at the cost of the religion itself

I don't agree the books should be ever reconciled. Nor do I believe that absolute truth exists. All truths and untruths exist in various grades of gray. If NT is whiter than Koran (or vice versa) does it really matter (especially if the keys of knowledge were hidden by the pharisees and not in any of these books).

So why waste time with hating anything or anybody, when death is nearing, day after day.

What is our goal and how can your reach it? That is the only thing that should concern us. Everything else is pandering on the negativity.

someone more worthy

Ouch! You have my promise that I will never write to any of your threads anymore.

a reply to: glend

By your own admission you do not believe that absolute truth's exist, that mean's by that definition you also do not believe in reality or yourself which probably put's you into a category closer to the Buddhists or the Agnostic's.

More worthy - THAN ME that was self indicative of myself not pointed at you in any way whatsoever I just felt that the debate led too far off the original post which had nothing to do with Islamic or Jewish faith - except for the trash being thrown into the site which could be either group or both, the Film showed however extremist Jewish attacking the site, attempting to vandalize a first century PRE - expulsion site because they can not accept that it may prove a link to early Christianity AND that those early Christian's were actually JEWS because that was not in Rome but in Jerusalem.

The Reason I regard myself as unworthy is this, I was led off and then followed the track well off the vein of the thread, now regardless of whether that was intentional or not it has detracted very greatly from this thread and more or less turned it worthless and for that reason given the sheer importance of this site to the history of my faith as a Christian (though admittedly I am NOT the best example of that by any means) and also to the entire world given the impact Christianity has had and indeed is still having upon the world.

So I dearly hope that someone else researches this and create's a superior thread and keeps it on track as I should have.

The fault is not your's, I may not agree with you on many points but you make interesting and good one's and I would rather you continue to post as your posts are usually far better than mine.

a reply to: LABTECH767

The Reason I regard myself as unworthy is this, I was led off and then followed the track well off the vein of the thread, now regardless of whether that was intentional or not it has detracted very greatly from this thread and more or less turned it worthless and for that reason given the sheer importance of this site to the history of my faith as a Christian (though admittedly I am NOT the best example of that by any means) and also to the entire world given the impact Christianity has had and indeed is still having upon the world.

Don't be silly, I have enjoyed reading your threads over the years and have great respect for you. My apologee's for taking the thread off topic.

a reply to: glend

I been doing it for almost 25 years.

I already started a meeting here and most of them are the disenfranchised of the church.

Go here to see how I started off the teaching www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Revolution9

Agreed totally faked for a narrative The Star of David is a fairly recent addition as a symbol.
Some say its a Rothschild invention.

en.wikipedia.org...

Unlike the menorah, the Lion of Judah, the shofar and the lulav, the Star of David was never a uniquely Jewish symbol, although it had been used in that way as a printer's colophon since the sixteenth century.[2] During the 19th century the symbol began to proliferate among the Jewish communities of Eastern Europe, ultimately being used among the Jewish communities in the Pale of Settlement.

The youtube channel appears to be with a religious bias-
"R$E Exposing the New Age Of Anti-CHrist"

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Fornicators from the Old Testament got a free pass - The Pagan emperor Constantine created Christianity after by decree.

They did it to desecrate the site

Likewise Christians desecrate pagan sites. Most of the ancient Christian Churches are on pagan ground for a two fold purpose - converting the pagans to Christianity from the nearby "catchment" area and more importantly the site had spiritual power from worshipers.

Keep believing your pagan overlords and be compliant.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Mohammad was, a fornicating, child molester

www.jesus-is-savior.com...

And yet in the above link we see that your old testament brethren practice the same.

Lets not even talk about the church leaders in the middle ages who had wives and concubines.

www.americamagazine.org...

Problems in the 11th century were much more widespread than in our own. Priests and bishops were unaccountable to secular law, and abusive behavior extended beyond children to include adults. Many had concubines, or live-in prostitutes, who were completely at the mercy of their clerical patrons. Some bishops used their authority over the clergy to compel priests into acts of sodomy, as well.

a reply to: LABTECH767

but like Hitler he could twist people to his will and convinced them he was a prophet.

Hitler was also a Christian

a reply to: ChesterJohn

At what age do you draw the line and the "historical" excuse. The actions of Pro Zionist leanings of Disraeli had real consequences for the middle east.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Allah is NOT Jehovah he is a pagan moon god

And YHWH is not the Lord in the OT. 2 distinct personalities in one book, go figure.

en.wikipedia.org...

Yahweh was the national god of the Iron Age kingdoms of Israel (Samaria) and Judah.[3] His exact origins are disputed, although they reach back to the early Iron Age and even the Late Bronze:[4][5] his name may have begun as an epithet of El, head of the Bronze Age Canaanite pantheon,[6] but the earliest plausible mentions are in Egyptian texts that place him among the nomads of the southern Transjordan.[7]

In the oldest biblical literature, Yahweh is a typical ancient Near Eastern "divine warrior", who leads the heavenly army against Israel's enemies;[8] he later became the main god of the Kingdom of Israel (Samaria) and of Judah,[9] and over time the royal court and temple promoted Yahweh as the god of the entire cosmos,

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: LABTECH767

but like Hitler he could twist people to his will and convinced them he was a prophet.

Hitler was also a Christian

He was a ROMAN CATHOLIC and they do not represent all of Christianity.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

And you don't see me using Lot as much of an example. Plus he is not Israel. But remember God still called him righteous.

I know all about the churches in the middle ages most of which were ROMAN CATHOLIC and cult groups do not represent all Christianity.

But let's talk about the church today, not ROMAN CATHOLICISM. 90% do not even do what the Bible says. 90% of the church leaders today are in it for the salary or the money they can milk from the people who do not what the Bible says, treat it as a job and not a calling. 99% do not even read the Bible. When they do they do it for the same reason you do to talk bad about others(not a Christian virtue). 99% of pastors do not believe that there is a preserved word of God we can hold in our hands today.

We should be more concerned for the church today and not bring up the past of dead men still dead in their tresspass and sin.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Pro Zionist leanings of the ATS member named Disraeli?

There are no zionist leanings of any in Israel. Most are secular Atheist, those that are religious are divided in their belief of the Bible which is only the Torah.

If you are talking about them coming back into their land they were driven from. I have to ask you.

Why are the so called Palestinians, who are actually Arabs, not asking for part of Lebanon, Part of Syria, part of Iraq, Part of Jordan, Part of the Egypt i.e. mainly the northern part of the Arabian peninsula , and Part of Saudi Arabia which was all one time an area known as Palestine, but only for parts of the land that was once known and is now known as the nation of Israel?