Why do people who do not follow the teachings of christ care what those who do believe?

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posted on Feb, 14 2005 @ 12:53 PM
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Wow gazrok, obviously satan has clouded your mind to what heaven is like.

All the senses will be clouded with pure joy, it has not even entered our minds and heart what God
has prepared for us that love him. Thats what he says.


Our simple imagination cannot possibly think of what heaven is like because our thoughts of heaven are very vain. believers who enter heaven will not only worship God but also
be brothers with christ himself who is the son of God, and will partake in all of his joys.


You couldn't even imagine Gazrock what the kingdom is like, and no imaination on earth can even come close to thinking what heaven is like. Its far greater than anyting on earth can provide you.



Everything on earth was was created for little periods of joy that do not last long. Every thing that gives us the most happiness on earth all fades away and does not fill your heart with true happiness. Nothing can compare to eternal happiness, not tv, not movies, not music, music gets old fast too, nothing can
compare to it.




posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 03:42 AM
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Originally posted by RANT

Originally posted by mwm1331

Originally posted by RANT
Say "Stop witnessing us back!"

Film at 11.


HUH???
I dont get it.


I know.




Well Rant I wish I could say I was dissapointed by the fact that you didn't at least attempt to help me understand what you were saying but in truth I kinda expected it. Obviously as one of those "idiotic followers of a 2000 year old novel" I am not "intellectually advanced" enough to understand the "sublime subtleties of your statement"
Oh well.
Gazrok yes I agree that when religous faith crosses the line and becomes persecution it is obviously in violation of the teaching my religon was founded on. However one problem I see is that often times a smple statement of the tenets of my religon is seen as persecution even when there is no intent to do so. I believe homosexuality to be a sin. I also beleve it to be a choice. However I dont feel I would be acting in accordace with my religous beliefs by saying that I believe that homosexuals are going to hell or condemming them. The truth is I dont know whether they are going to hell or not. I know that thier lifestyle is a lifestyle of sin but all lifestyles are lifestyles of sin. The only thing I can see based on my knowledge of gods law that would prevent them from the entering the kngdom of heaven is failure to repent for thier sin. That is at least for me, the problem I have with the pro gay lobby. By convincing people that a sinful lifestyle is nothing to be ashamed of they are convincing people not to repent and therfore, from my perspective, robbing them of thier one chance at salvation. As for your brother gaz I am glad to see that you love him despite not understanding his lfestyle choice. However I disagree that it wasn't a choice. It may not have been a conscious choice, or even one he was aware of but I do beleve it was a choice. While you say that it retrospect he was always that way are you sure its not a case of you simply imterperting his behavors differently based on new informaton? I myself as a young child played with the girls more than boys. Not because I am or ever was gay, I simply found them more interesting, (I didn't realise why untill puberty though) Also I had a tendancy to get in fights when I hung out with the boys. ( I am the only person I know who was kicked out of preschool for breaking a kids nose, he made the mistake of pushing one of the girls I played with after two warnings) As an example I cite my wife. to this day I dont know why I fell in love with her or why she was the woman who made me want to give up my womanising ways, but she was. I made the choice to change my ways and devote myself to her at some level but I dont honestly know when or why. There will be many who say that love is not a choice, but again I have to disagree, I thnk we all at some level do choose who we love, the initial spark may be beyond our control but whether we cultivate that spark is a choice.
You see I didnt start this thread to critsize others offense or imply that they were offende becuase on some level they know we are right, allthough I do agree with Dbates on that. It was more of an attempt to understand why my certainty in matters of religon offend others. I truly do not understand it and am hoping that in the interest of denying ignorance which this site is dedicated to someone can help me understand. As I said there are many religons which feel are false and know they have the same belief about mine. But because I am certain in my faith I do not care nor am I offended, after all I know they are wrong.



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 03:43 AM
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Originally posted by RANT

Originally posted by mwm1331

Originally posted by RANT
Say "Stop witnessing us back!"

Film at 11.


HUH???
I dont get it.


I know.




Well Rant I wish I could say I was dissapointed by the fact that you didn't at least attempt to help me understand what you were saying but in truth I kinda expected it. Obviously as one of those "idiotic followers of a 2000 year old novel" I am not "intellectually advanced" enough to understand the "sublime subtleties of your statement"
Oh well.
Gazrok yes I agree that when religous faith crosses the line and becomes persecution it is obviously in violation of the teaching my religon was founded on. However one problem I see is that often times a smple statement of the tenets of my religon is seen as persecution even when there is no intent to do so. I believe homosexuality to be a sin. I also beleve it to be a choice. However I dont feel I would be acting in accordace with my religous beliefs by saying that I believe that homosexuals are going to hell or condemming them. The truth is I dont know whether they are going to hell or not. I know that thier lifestyle is a lifestyle of sin but all lifestyles are lifestyles of sin. The only thing I can see based on my knowledge of gods law that would prevent them from the entering the kngdom of heaven is failure to repent for thier sin. That is at least for me, the problem I have with the pro gay lobby. By convincing people that a sinful lifestyle is nothing to be ashamed of they are convincing people not to repent and therfore, from my perspective, robbing them of thier one chance at salvation. As for your brother gaz I am glad to see that you love him despite not understanding his lfestyle choice. However I disagree that it wasn't a choice. It may not have been a conscious choice, or even one he was aware of but I do beleve it was a choice. While you say that it retrospect he was always that way are you sure its not a case of you simply imterperting his behavors differently based on new informaton? I myself as a young child played with the girls more than boys. Not because I am or ever was gay, I simply found them more interesting, (I didn't realise why untill puberty though) Also I had a tendancy to get in fights when I hung out with the boys. ( I am the only person I know who was kicked out of preschool for breaking a kids nose, he made the mistake of pushing one of the girls I played with after two warnings) As an example I cite my wife. to this day I dont know why I fell in love with her or why she was the woman who made me want to give up my womanising ways, but she was. I made the choice to change my ways and devote myself to her at some level but I dont honestly know when or why. There will be many who say that love is not a choice, but again I have to disagree, I thnk we all at some level do choose who we love, the initial spark may be beyond our control but whether we cultivate that spark is a choice.
You see I didnt start this thread to critsize others offense or imply that they were offended becuase on some level they know we are right, allthough I do somewhat agree with Dbates on that. It was more of an attempt to understand why my certainty in matters of religon offend others. I truly do not understand it and am hoping that in the interest of denying ignorance which this site is dedicated to someone can help me understand. As I said there are many religons which I feel are false and I know they have the same belief about mine. But because I am certain in my faith I do not care nor am I offended, after all I know they are wrong, just as they know that I am wrong.



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 08:06 AM
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Good thread mwm. Let me clear a mystery for you. The reason why you feel that sometimes people get offended even at a mere statement by you is because of this:
your signature.
Americans are Gods chosen people
Yea wonderful that ought to offend the REAL americans who believe in equality. I'm american and i'm friggin offended.
Islam is the tool of the devil, and muhhamed is a false prophet
I'm sorry what were you saying about you not trying to offend anyone and you wanting to be left alone by atheists and such? What do you think this is doing?
If any of the above statements offend you, go yourself
Hypocricy my friend. :shk:



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 08:26 AM
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Which brings me back to my orginal point isis. Why does it offend you?
I believe Americans are gods chosen people, If I am wrong why should it offend? likewise if I am right.
I also as a Christian believe that the only way to heaven is through christ, therfore any religon which does not accept Jesus as both the son of god and the savoir of mankind is wrong. As I do not believe that God would intentionally create a religon which misleads its adherants in such as way (by recognising Jesus as a prophet only and not as the son of god) I can only reason that Islam is a false religon created by satan to mislead the faithful from the true path. I have nothing against muslims themselves, I simply feel they have been mislead by thier religon. Again though If you reject the christian religon as false why would my belief offend you?
As for my final quote, I really dont care if my beliefs, thoughts opinions etc offend you, I am curious as to why you allow them to offend you, but I could care less that they do.
I am not here to be nice or to worry if I cause offense I have no control over wheter you are offended by me or not, that isis is up to you. You decide whther what I say offends you not me. You choose to be offended.
I am just curious as to why you make that choice.



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by mwm1331
I believe Americans are gods chosen people


Hitler said the same thing about the German people

Stands to reason that people are touchy when the hear the SAME rhetoric being parroted.



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by mwm1331
I believe Americans are gods chosen people


Hitler said the same thing about the German people

Stands to reason that people are touchy when the hear the SAME rhetoric being parroted.


So what.
I'm not hitler.
I have no plans, intentions, or wish to kill anyone else much less any group of people.
I do however have the right to believe whatever I want.
And I believe that Americans are gods chosen people.
However if I am so far off, f that belief is so ridiculous, then why does it bother you?
I mean if its obvously false why care?



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by mwm1331
I have no plans, intentions, or wish to kill anyone else much less any group of people.

That is the moral thing to respond with.. however persecution exists on many levels.

I do however have the right to believe whatever I want.
And I believe that Americans are gods chosen people.

Why? [btw I thought the bible OT said that jews were the chosen ones..]

However if I am so far off, f that belief is so ridiculous, then why does it bother you?

1. I'm an aussie.
2. I am an ethical person.. and many of your posts come of as unethical [biggoted] so any suggestion that you are superior to me is an insult and is degrading.

[edit on 15-2-2005 by riley]



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by mwm1331
I have no plans, intentions, or wish to kill anyone else much less any group of people.

That is the moral thing to respond with.. however persecution exists on many levels.

I do however have the right to believe whatever I want.
And I believe that Americans are gods chosen people.

Why? [btw I thought the bible OT said that jews were the chosen ones..]

However if I am so far off, f that belief is so ridiculous, then why does it bother you?

1. I'm an aussie.
2. I am an ethical person.. and many of your posts come of as unethical [biggoted] so any suggestion that you are superior to me is an insult and is degrading.

[edit on 15-2-2005 by riley]

Simple Americans are gods chosen people because Americans are all people. That is not to say that all people are Americans, however the Identity of American covers all races, religons, creeds, ethnic bacgrouds, social backgrounds, ideologies, etc.
So if you believe I am a bigot then I obviously van not be superior to you, and if so then from your perspective my statement is false, why then would you allow an obviously false statement to offend you?
Tell have you ever considered that my posts seem bigoted becuse you fail to understand what I am saying, or worse that your ead more into it than s actually there?
Lets find out with a little test.
What does the fourth line of my sig box say is my view of muslims?



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by Amelia
Another thing....the bible have been written by men for men...do you see a woman with power in the bible? It's always about son, father...where is the woman power in all this? Because those men who wrote that wanted to be served by woman....

love
Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Deborah in the Old Testament. Esther in the OT. Rahab and Tamar and Ruth were vital parts in the lineage of Christ. Inheritances were passed onto sons, and if I remember right it was Caleb's daughters who asked for an inheritance and received one. Mary gave birth to the Savior. Some women in the NT are mentioned for their faith.

[edit on 15-2-2005 by dbrandt]



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 05:14 PM
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This is laughable mwm.
You take a knife and stab a person and then ask why he bleeds.
Your closed bigoted one sided opinions are the reasons why we had slavery, wars, racism etc...
I'm an american. Although i'm not going to judge a person by their nationality! Thats absurd. Its the same thing as calling an iraqi a terrorist or calling a mexican lazy. You have some balls to make the statments you make and whine about the consequences. Do you only make such bold statements on an anonymous website or do you also do this in public?



posted on Feb, 15 2005 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by RANT
Say "Stop witnessing us back!"

Film at 11.



Originally posted by mwm1331
HUH???
I dont get it.



Originally posted by RANT
I know.


I get it.

Your the BEST RANT!!

I can't even add anymore, RANT said it all...

* Sadly, we lost Gazrok to SATAN...sigh, another MOD bites the dust

I keed, I keed....



[edit on 2/15/2005 by bobafett1972]



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 03:04 AM
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Yeah rant has a true talent for avoiding any discussion which isn't indexed and pre written by the democartic party. he's not too bad with a oneliner either.
Isis, interesting that you view my questions as whining, and how exactly did I stab anyone?
Again and again I see people implying or stating that I am bigoted, hey if it makes you feel better to belive that go ahead, your mind, your emotions, your choice.
However that s irrelevant to my orignal question.
Lets say for the sake of argument that I am bigoted, lets say I belong to the KKK, neo nazis whatever.
Obviously the fact that I am bigoted means I am not as smart or enlightned as you right?
It also means I am wrong correct?
So If am an ignorant bigot who is wrong in what I believe why would you allow yourself to be offended by me?
If christianity is only a 2000 year old work of fiction and I am a fool for believng it what does t matter if that book says you are going to hell?



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 03:28 PM
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The real reason people get offended at christianity is because they know they are guilty of sin. Instead of facing it, they attack the appearent source of the disomfort



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
The real reason people get offended at christianity is because they know they are guilty of sin. Instead of facing it, they attack the appearent source of the disomfort


Huh?
It has nothing to do with sin. At least for me it does not. It has to do with the fact that some people do not need your religion. This applies to any religion, really. You might need it, but I don't. Been there done that. I take the path I am on of my own accord. Have you? Where it goes, I can not say. I will find out when the time is right.
Another point could be that people get sick of the whole my way or the highway attitude a lot of Christians seem to have. I can really think of no other religion that does this. All paths lead to the same God, not just your's, my Christian friend.
Live and let live. End of story. Fishers of men is fine. Come to me once, I will turn you down politely. Saldy, this isn't the case. No is never enough. Well consider this me a lost soul, because I ain't coming back. I seen the dark side of your religion and I will take my chances...



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by bobafett1972
I can really think of no other religion that does this. Come to me once, I will turn you down politely. Saldy, this isn't the case. No is never enough.



I got this from someone else on ATS. It was from someone who said they used to be a christian and stopped following Christ. It was on a thread dealing with christianity . Other people beside them were making posts just like yours about being left alone concerning christianity and such. Someone made the comment that someone in their family is always talking to them about Christ and how they were sick of it. This used to be christian then made a post that dealt with why we don't stop. They said, "If christians honestly believe what they saying, how can they".

We can't make anyone be a christian, but they reason we do it is because people's eternal destination is at stake. The impression from alot of posts is we think we are better than others. I want to set the record straight we are not, forgive us if it comes across that way.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
We can't make anyone be a christian, but they reason we do it is because people's eternal destination is at stake.


According to you and Christianity maybe, but this isn't the case. I will leave it at that, because it is a little off topic. My beliefs are mine and yours are yours. All I want from people I know in real life is to be left alone once I state the fact that I am not interested.


The impression from alot of posts is we think we are better than others. I want to set the record straight we are not, forgive us if it comes across that way.


I hate to break it to you but I have to say you are wrong. When I make statements like this, I base it on real life experiences, not from this or any other message board. The people I know DO think they are better than me and most people.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
We can't make anyone be a christian, but they reason we do it is because people's eternal destination is at stake.



That's only your belief...not ours, and if we don't want to be bothered...we expect you to respect our right not to be bothered. We've heard it before...we want to be left alone to our own beliefs....why is that so hard!?
:bnghd::bnghd::bnghd:



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 07:18 PM
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" the darkide of you religion "


Wht drkside? Jesus preached truth and peace and was God inthe flesh teling us all to
Love our enemies and neighbors as ourselves.

Whats the problem?

How can anybody say they love peace yet not believe in Jesus? Even hearing about hs miracles and the words he preached. How can
a sincere soul not flock to him?


seriously, I flocked to him bcause everybody aroundme was into weed, drugs, dinking, aving sex, ect.... and his words
touched my heart, and since haveseen him work wonders and miracles, true miracles.



It hs to be sin. Look I sin too, everyday, someeven mortal,but I despise sinand evil and still come back to God to ask for his grace. I truly think that if one holds
dear a sin they will contnue to reject Christ, knowng he might be true but never really acknowledging it and asking him themselves.



If you can't beieve in miracles, what can you believe in?





peace.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by Truth
Whats the problem?

How can anybody say they love peace yet not believe in Jesus? Even hearing about hs miracles and the words he preached. How can
a sincere soul not flock to him?


This is exactly what I mean. How can someone make such a naive statement? Yours is the one true faith? Give me a break. Your faith is your own, period. So why does it have to be mine as well?


It hs to be sin. Look I sin too, everyday, someeven mortal,but I despise sinand evil and still come back to God to ask for his grace. I truly think that if one holds
dear a sin they will contnue to reject Christ, knowng he might be true but never really acknowledging it and asking him themselves.


I am not rejecting Christ, I reject Christianity. If I am wrong, then so be it. But at least I know it was MY choice to make, not someone who does not take NO for an answer. Your religion isn't the only religion on the planet you know?


If you can't beieve in miracles, what can you believe in?


Who said anything about not believing in miracles? I believe in a lot of things. But they are things I choose to believe and have faith in. You do not need a specific religion to have faith or spirituality.





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