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originally posted by: Grambler
originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler
The problem that I see is not that Trump has certain powers in regards to the DoJ. He is president after all. The problem is the mindset he has to say what he said.
Considering that he has openly said he would go after his political opponents and knowing that his supporters would back him no matter what he does, it does not leave one very confident in his ability to do what is just and right with the powers he has been given, or that his supporters would hold his feet to the fire if he overstepped boundaries we consider reasonable.
So you are saying when the doj or fbi is going after political figures, it's important to make sure they are not acting out of political favortism?
I agree!
Shame that so many anti trump people don't agree.
originally posted by: introvert
originally posted by: Grambler
originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler
The problem that I see is not that Trump has certain powers in regards to the DoJ. He is president after all. The problem is the mindset he has to say what he said.
Considering that he has openly said he would go after his political opponents and knowing that his supporters would back him no matter what he does, it does not leave one very confident in his ability to do what is just and right with the powers he has been given, or that his supporters would hold his feet to the fire if he overstepped boundaries we consider reasonable.
So you are saying when the doj or fbi is going after political figures, it's important to make sure they are not acting out of political favortism?
I agree!
Shame that so many anti trump people don't agree.
Then you would also agree with how many on the Left and the media responded to Trump's comments.
Again, Trump's comments do not leave us confident that he would not use his powers to do "what he wants to do", in regards to the DoJ, etc.
When you consider the things he has said leading up to this current situation, it is not unreasonable to be a bit wary.
originally posted by: Grambler
originally posted by: introvert
originally posted by: Grambler
originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler
The problem that I see is not that Trump has certain powers in regards to the DoJ. He is president after all. The problem is the mindset he has to say what he said.
Considering that he has openly said he would go after his political opponents and knowing that his supporters would back him no matter what he does, it does not leave one very confident in his ability to do what is just and right with the powers he has been given, or that his supporters would hold his feet to the fire if he overstepped boundaries we consider reasonable.
So you are saying when the doj or fbi is going after political figures, it's important to make sure they are not acting out of political favortism?
I agree!
Shame that so many anti trump people don't agree.
Then you would also agree with how many on the Left and the media responded to Trump's comments.
Again, Trump's comments do not leave us confident that he would not use his powers to do "what he wants to do", in regards to the DoJ, etc.
When you consider the things he has said leading up to this current situation, it is not unreasonable to be a bit wary.
Sure it is.
I have said in this thread, if trump would do something like pay for opposition research from Kremlin sources, then use that to start an every widening investigation into his opponents, I would be right their with these people calling out trump.
If trump uses the IRS to go after left leaning organizations, I would call him out.
However, almost all of these people screaming about trumps words said nothing when Obamas agency actually did what they are worried trump might do.
You say there is not much hope that Trump supporters would challenge him IF he did these things.
Well surely you will admit that Obama supporters, including many powerful people in the MSM, actually went along with Obama when he actually did the thing they are fearing trump will do.
I just find it very funny when people call him stupid and illiterate, and makes me think how ignorant that makes the people who he beat. For someone to be as "stupid" as Trump, what does that really say about his political rivals?
originally posted by: Flatfish
a reply to: Grambler
Oh I agree, everyone at one time or another gets tongue tied or looses their train of thought.
The BIG difference between these two examples is that Obama recognizes the fact that he’s mumbling and not making sense, while Trump thinks he just made perfect sense, maybe better sense than anyone has every made and.......anyone who disagrees with that assessment is just propagating fake news.
Am I right?
The man is a delusional, inarticulate, dunce and yup, that bothers me just a little bit.
originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: 3daysgone
I just find it very funny when people call him stupid and illiterate, and makes me think how ignorant that makes the people who he beat. For someone to be as "stupid" as Trump, what does that really say about his political rivals?
it reflect more on his supporters, imo.
and, yes the man is an idiot, or, as tillerson said a f%&*king moron. lol
originally posted by: MiddleInsite
a reply to: Grambler
So what your saying is that you were screaming about how bad it was when Obama supposedly did what now you are willing to excuse Trump of doing? Am I getting that right?
originally posted by: Grambler
Now leaving aside the the irony that all of these people are worked up about trump SAYING he can use the justice department how he wants, when they had no problem with Obama DOING this in the DOJ, IRS, EPA, FBI, and who knows how many other agencies, there is another interesting matter thaat this brings up.
originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: 3daysgone
I just find it very funny when people call him stupid and illiterate, and makes me think how ignorant that makes the people who he beat. For someone to be as "stupid" as Trump, what does that really say about his political rivals?
it reflect more on his supporters, imo.
and, yes the man is an idiot, or, as tillerson said a f%&*king moron. lol
Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument,[1][2][3] which is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.[4][5][6] When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union, the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world.
originally posted by: introvert
originally posted by: Grambler
originally posted by: introvert
originally posted by: Grambler
originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler
The problem that I see is not that Trump has certain powers in regards to the DoJ. He is president after all. The problem is the mindset he has to say what he said.
Considering that he has openly said he would go after his political opponents and knowing that his supporters would back him no matter what he does, it does not leave one very confident in his ability to do what is just and right with the powers he has been given, or that his supporters would hold his feet to the fire if he overstepped boundaries we consider reasonable.
So you are saying when the doj or fbi is going after political figures, it's important to make sure they are not acting out of political favortism?
I agree!
Shame that so many anti trump people don't agree.
Then you would also agree with how many on the Left and the media responded to Trump's comments.
Again, Trump's comments do not leave us confident that he would not use his powers to do "what he wants to do", in regards to the DoJ, etc.
When you consider the things he has said leading up to this current situation, it is not unreasonable to be a bit wary.
Sure it is.
I have said in this thread, if trump would do something like pay for opposition research from Kremlin sources, then use that to start an every widening investigation into his opponents, I would be right their with these people calling out trump.
If trump uses the IRS to go after left leaning organizations, I would call him out.
However, almost all of these people screaming about trumps words said nothing when Obamas agency actually did what they are worried trump might do.
You say there is not much hope that Trump supporters would challenge him IF he did these things.
Well surely you will admit that Obama supporters, including many powerful people in the MSM, actually went along with Obama when he actually did the thing they are fearing trump will do.
Ok. For the sake of argument, let's agree.
It appears your entire premise is rooted in a logical fallacy. Specifically, tu quoque, an appeal to hypocrisy.
While it may be reasonable to say many people are hypocrites in regards to how they approached Obama on similar issues, versus how they approach Trump, their hypocrisy itself does not invalidate their current concerns with Trump.
It also appears that you are trying to deflect attention from the potential hypocrisy among Trump supporters by changing the focus to Obama supporters.
Even in your own wording you say potential in regards to Trump, however that is speculative as it hasn't happened.
What we can see which is much less speculative and has evidence piling up to prove, Obamas administration did exactly what everyone is worried Tump COULD do.
So how is it the same people justifying Obama are so vocal aginst Trump for something he hasn't even done.
The people worried about trump can be worried.
that.
But my point is these same people are saying anyone concerned with the fbi or doj being polticized against trump are told that by.questioning them they are hurting the country.
I am just saying if you are worried about trumps hypothetical abuses, you should not attack people worried about Obamas actual abuses.
MADISON, Wis. — Russians attempted to hack elections systems in 21 states in the run-up to last year's presidential election, officials said Friday. The U.S. Department of Homeland Security notified states of the attempted breaches on Friday, said Michael Haas, director of the Wisconsin Elections Commission. The attempt in Wisconsin was unsuccessful, he said.