Why don’t Jews Believe Jesus was a Messiah?? Dr. Brown vs. Rabbi Frietag

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Look, Jesus is God to me, He GOD put an end to sacrifice and fulfilled the law paying with his Priceless blood for our very soul's.
We are HIS, he has paid in full and the only Sacrifice he want's is that we try to be good, don't do harm to other's, love him above all thing's so that we will obey him out of Love not out of Death because he has banished that and ended the Sacrifice with his own blood, sealed the LAW with his own blood and Redeemed us with his own blood and suffering.
God does not want Sacrifice he want's Obedience and for us to live a full life, a good life our only sacrifice a contrite and repentant heart, the whole point of us replicating the last supper in the mass is to repeat the sacrifice which is also an eternal sacrifice before God, to take it into ourselves and so become redeemed through him.
God did that out of Love.

The pagan's were throwing babies, living babies into the arm's of heated brass statues of monsters they called God's, according to Jim Carey and several others the Elite terrorize little children so that there blood become full of adrenaline form fear then kill them and drink there blood to get high off of the adrenaline, he is probably telling the truth.

So there is very genuine evil in the world, it want's us to deny Christ, to turn away from him, to embrace false religion's and paganism so that it can divide us and keep us divided.

a reply to: LABTECH767

So god had himself, as his own son (puzzle that out why don’t ya?!?), then sacrificed himself to himself , to excuse our sins from himself to appease himself..


Batman vs Superman’s plot makes more sense than ANY OF THAT..

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: LABTECH767

So god had himself, as his own son (puzzle that out why don’t ya?!?), then sacrificed himself to himself , to excuse our sins from himself to appease himself..


Batman vs Superman’s plot makes more sense than ANY OF THAT..

So you claim that God is Mary too?

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: LABTECH767

So god had himself, as his own son (puzzle that out why don’t ya?!?), then sacrificed himself to himself , to excuse our sins from himself to appease himself..


Batman vs Superman’s plot makes more sense than ANY OF THAT..

You really don't get it do you, Mankind had a choice, the Messiah was right there and THEY chose to sacrifice him, hence the Branch was CUT OFF until at least the fourth generation but those that DO come back to him are the rightful heir's in his kingdom, now that seem's to be to be your problem you know that without accepting him those that do not have remained cut off though he is calling them.


10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.

7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13 The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

19 The Jews who heard these words were again divided. 20 Many of them said, “He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?”

21 But others said, “These are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”



22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

40 Then Jesus went back across the Jordan to the place where John had been baptizing in the early days. There he stayed, 41 and many people came to him. They said, “Though John never performed a sign, all that John said about this man was true.” 42 And in that place many believed in Jesus.

My OWN shall come unto me, those that do not are therefore NOT the people of the Messiah and yes false messiah's are prophesied but get this HE is coming back and most definitely NOT tenderly this time and then they shall see what they CHOSE to deny.

Zechariah 12:10
10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[a] of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

You try to deny the PROPHESIED sacrifice of the lamb.

Read these.

100prophecies.org...

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
Thoughts??

Any groups that have a church hierarchy like priest/pastor/vicar/rabbi is part of the ac system so it doesn't really matter. They'll roll it all into one big lump eventually.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Jews used to believe in a trinity but it fell out of favor in the second century AD...

a reply to: LABTECH767

He GOD put an end to sacrifice and fulfilled the law paying with his Priceless blood for our very soul's.

Well its not really a sacrifice as God ( your God ) cant feel pain, only vicariously, through an agent (His Jesus) so I guess in your eyes you have to invoke "the mysteries of the Trinity", an extra biblical doctrine. [btw all blood is priceless even in a secular world]


www.ucg.org...

"Nicene decision didn’t end the debate"
Let us be clear that when it comes to the intellectual and theological debates in those early centuries that led to the formulation of the Trinity, the true Church was largely absent from the scene, having been driven underground. (See the chapter “The Rise of a Counterfeit Christianity ” in our free booklet The Church Jesus Built for an overview of this critical period.)......


Of the following decades, Professor Harold Brown, cited earlier, writes: “During the middle decades of this century, from 340 to 380, the history of doctrine looks more like the history of court and church intrigues and social unrest . . . The central doctrines hammered out in this period often appear to have been put through by intrigue or mob violence rather than by the common consent of Christendom led by the Holy Spirit” (p. 119).

sealed the LAW

Its funny how mental gymnastics are called for when Christians decide to selectively choose which of the Levitical and Deutoronomical laws apply to them. When certain obscure laws like women not being allowed in Church during Menses are normalized by Pope Gregory some few thousand years later - its suspect. The myysoginist Paul didnt even want women in the ministry to begin with.


Or in other words why wasnt it alright until edicted as OK by a Pope well after the blood sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.

The pagan's were throwing babies, living babies into the arm's of heated brass statues of monsters they called God's, .. terrorize little children so that there blood become full of adrenaline form fear then kill them and drink there blood to get high off of the adrenaline..

I dont doubt this. Tell me how circumcision isn't painful to toddlers, a practice still common to some Christians and all Jews?


Tell me how this isn't but a faster form of adrenaline pumping ( feeding the demiurge maybe? ) albeit not leading to death, and yet reducing sexual enjoyment for males later in life - thereby a continued sacrifice till death!

By what measure do you define evil? Does the child born into a Jewish family get a choice? Will your comforter ( Jesus _ administer an spiritual anesthetic?


"is circumcision painful"

wiki
All studies on the subject to date compare the pain experienced under anesthesia to the pain of unanesthetized circumcision.
None compare the pain under anesthesia to the lack of pain experienced by the non-circumcised infant. ... All circumcised infants suffer during the procedure and afterwards.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

So god had himself, as his own son (puzzle that out why don’t ya?!?), then sacrificed himself to himself , to excuse our sins from himself to appease himself..

In a nutshell yes - The Jews dont get a pass either - remember the Omniscient god started calling out for Adam when he hid because him and Eve suddenly understood their "nakedness".

originally posted by: troubleshooter
a reply to: dfnj2015

Jews used to believe in a trinity but it fell out of favor in the second century AD...


I have heard that before, I've also heard that the pagan temples in Rome had a triune God so when Constantine decided for the 'church' at the Council of Nicea to adopt the doctrine of the Trinity he did so for political reasons. This is the 'Black Madonna" idea I think.

edit on 7-1-2018 by SkeptiSchism because: messed up the quote

a reply to: troubleshooter

Jews used to believe in a trinity but it fell out of favor in the second century AD...

Somehow i doubt that...

Jews are pretty strict when it comes to the Shema...

Their God is ONE as in singular, not parts that equal one

a reply to: Akragon

How do you account for the incident of the burning bush? God wasn't the burning bush and yet he spoke to Moses from it nor would Moses look at it for fear of seeing God.

Jesus isn't God and yet He is. The Father is in me and I in the Father.

a reply to: ketsuko

I would consider it something that never actually happened...

similar to the exodus...

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Akragon

Jesus isn't God and yet He is.

1 Timothy 6:20, 21

20 Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, turning away from the empty speeches that violate what is holy and from the contradictions of the falsely called “knowledge.” 21 By making a show of such knowledge, some have deviated from the faith.

May the undeserved kindness be with you.

Jesus is described as "a god" at John 1:1 in honest translations (or "divine", "a divine being"). At Isaiah 9:6 Jesus Christ is prophetically called ʼEl Gib·bohrʹ, “Mighty God” (not ʼEl Shad·daiʹ [God Almighty], which is applied to Jehovah at Genesis 17:1). The Hebrew word ʼelo·himʹ (gods) appears to be from a root meaning “be strong.” ʼElo·himʹ is the plural of ʼelohʹah (god). Sometimes this plural refers to a number of gods (Ge 31:30, 32; 35:2), but more often it is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. ʼElo·himʹ is used in the Scriptures with reference to Jehovah himself, to angels, to idol gods (singular and plural), and to men. At Psalm 8:5, the angels are also referred to as ʼelo·himʹ (gods).

The Bible makes mention of many gods such as at Ps 86:8 or 1Co 8:5, 6:

5 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

“God” and “Father” not distinctive. The title “God” is neither personal nor distinctive (one can even make a god of his belly; Php 3:19). In the Hebrew Scriptures the same word (ʼElo·himʹ) is applied to Jehovah, the true God, and also to false gods, such as the Philistine god Dagon (Jg 16:23, 24; 1Sa 5:7) and the Assyrian god Nisroch. (2Ki 19:37) For a Hebrew to tell a Philistine or an Assyrian that he worshiped “God [ʼElo·himʹ]” would obviously not have sufficed to identify the Person to whom his worship went.

In its articles on Jehovah, The Imperial Bible-Dictionary nicely illustrates the difference between ʼElo·himʹ (God) and Jehovah. Of the name Jehovah, it says: “It is everywhere a proper name, denoting the personal God and him only; whereas Elohim partakes more of the character of a common noun, denoting usually, indeed, but not necessarily nor uniformly, the Supreme. . . . The Hebrew may say the Elohim, the true God, in opposition to all false gods; but he never says the Jehovah, for Jehovah is the name of the true God only. He says again and again my God . . . ; but never my Jehovah, for when he says my God, he means Jehovah. He speaks of the God of Israel, but never of the Jehovah of Israel, for there is no other Jehovah. He speaks of the living God, but never of the living Jehovah, for he cannot conceive of Jehovah as other than living.”—Edited by P. Fairbairn, London, 1874, Vol. I, p. 856.

The same is true of the Greek term for God, The·osʹ. It was applied alike to the true God and to such pagan gods as Zeus and Hermes (Roman Jupiter and Mercury). (Compare Ac 14:11-15.) Presenting the true situation are Paul’s words at 1 Corinthians 8:4-6: “For even though there are those who are called ‘gods,’ whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords,’ there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him.” The belief in numerous gods, which makes essential that the true God be distinguished from such, has continued even into this 21st century.

Paul’s reference to “God the Father” does not mean that the true God’s name is “Father,” for the designation “father” applies as well to every human male parent and describes men in other relationships. (Ro 4:11, 16; 1Co 4:15) The Messiah is given the title “Eternal Father.” (Isa 9:6) Jesus called Satan the “father” of certain murderous opposers. (Joh 8:44) The term was also applied to gods of the nations, the Greek god Zeus being represented as the great father god in Homeric poetry. That “God the Father” has a name, one that is distinct from his Son’s name, is shown in numerous texts. (Mt 28:19; Re 3:12; 14:1) Paul knew the personal name of God, Jehovah, as found in the creation account in Genesis, from which Paul quoted in his writings. That name, Jehovah, distinguishes “God the Father” (compare Isa 64:8), thereby blocking any attempt at merging or blending his identity and person with that of any other to whom the title “god” or “father” may be applied.

Source: Jehovah: Insight, Volume 2

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
Without getting into predestination because volumes have been written on it; explain how people that have never opened a Bible are given a chance of everlasting life. There have been countless people who have lived and died without ever hearing of "the Bible"; are they in the Catholics Purgatory?

If necessary God will reveal Himself personally...

I experienced this myself in 1979 when God revealed Himself to me.

I know of others who have experienced the same thing as well...

In 1962 a Shaman Priest in Indonesia got a direct visit from Jesus:

There was a pagan village called Tubunaus about three miles from Soe. One day a pagan priest called Sem Faet, who also had leprosy, was giving a sacrifice to his “blood god.” Jesus came and revealed Himself to this pagan priest. “I am the God you are seeking,” He said,. “This is not the way to worship Me.”

“Lord who are you and how do you want to be worshipped?” the priest asked. “I will tell you about name and how you are to worship Me later,” Jesus said. ” First you must gather all your images and witchcraft materials and burn them. When you do this, I will visit you again and tell you all about myself.” Then the Lord disappeared.

The priest could not read or write, and the Lord told him to go to Soe. When you get there buy a pencil and a pad of paper, Jesus told him. He obeyed the Lord. When he returned to the village, God took his hand and wrote Bible verses in his book. He did not use normal Timor writing but a type of hieroglyphics. The Lord gave him many stories found throughout the whole bible.

Like a Mighty Wind - Mel Tari

a reply to: ketsuko

Firstfruits.

John 3:1-6

Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit.

a reply to: Murgatroid

If necessary God will reveal Himself personally... I experienced this myself in 1979 when God revealed Himself to me. I know of others who have experienced the same thing as well... In 1962 a Shaman Priest in Indonesia got a direct visit from Jesus:

I understand that - I had a rush of heart palpitations and energy when praying at a pentecostal church at the age of 17.
Had a few other weird events at the same time that I attributed to the same god.
Later I decided not to follow this god/demiurge when I studied into deeper things.

I stated

There have been countless people who have lived and died without ever hearing of "the Bible"

The above has never been truly answered and it appears again in this thread its avoided.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: ketsuko

I would consider it something that never actually happened...

similar to the exodus...

Ho that is what YOU consider.









What about Sodom and Gomorrah.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Ho that is what YOU consider.

Yup...

but i was talking about a flaming chatty bush...

at least there is a bit of evidence that Israel was in egypt

a reply to: Akragon

Well I actually believe in the bush and the fire which did not burn it so was actually spirit of some kind but that is a matter of faith.
As for talking to the bush.

What is ascribed to a french philosopher is actually not his at all, I am that I am, I am whom I am - yes they have a distinct difference with the later indicating self awareness of self and the former self identity or form but they are actually the same in meaning.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Believe whatever floats your boat brother...


im pretty sure we lost the topic of the thread though