American Airpower Attitudes

Originally posted by intrepid
Waging combat is very much like a football(NFL) game. It is the completeness of the team that wins it all. Take the Patriots, not the best offence, defence or special teams in the league but they're in the top 5 in all three catagories. Similarly the US Air force leads in some catagories but are also well along in others, although not leading. When you look at the whole, let's face it, they're #1.

the USAF and USN are #1 in virtually every category, but I can see what you're saying.

I can remember reading that the 1939 Luftwaffe was #1 too so I wouldnt get too excited about that. Look to who is managing your team. It is who is #1 at the end of the season that counts.

The Challenger 2 armor is very good but the M1A2 SEP isn't going down easily either, it uses an depleted uranium which can take quite a beating. I swa a test on the earlier M1A1 tank were it waqs hitting by a missle and still looked like it was in working condition, not blown to pieces.
And US also has the F-16 great light fighter, to be replaceed by the JSF-35 along with britain, mainly US though. F-22 grea air superiority. B-2 Bomber is very good, along with F-117, although not invinceible.
SAS most likely has US special beat though, along marines, although US still has good ground forces.

[edit on 14-2-2005 by SmokeyTheBear]

The Americans may very well be the air superpower right now but dont forget, "the bigger they are the harder they fall."

how old are you people? seriously these posts are getting ridiculous, my guns bigger than your gun therefore we're better......jesus get a grip. does anyone here hold a university education?does anyone have any concept of objectivity? does anyone have any ability to open their mind? does anyone really, and i mean really have an authoritave stand point on which to base any argument whatsover? untill some sort of modicum of intelligence is applied to this thread then it will just continue to go back and forward with everyone getting on their patriotic high horse refusing to see the other side of the argument.

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Exactly. If we are going to go to the origins of flight, then we can thank the US.

Personally, I think it is a dumb argument. All that matters is the here and now.

*cough* Sir George Cayley*cough*

I really shouldn't fan the flames as the second sentence I quoted is the one I agree with but facts is facts

[edit on 14-2-2005 by waynos]

What about pople like Otto Lillenthal who designed the first gliders and discovered the basic principles of flight aroud the same time when certain americans were saying "Everything that can be invented is."

With the economy headed to the dumps, the deficit running a sprint, I foresee the sale of a few aircraft carriers, B2 bombers, Patriot missiles sold to China, Russia, India and whoever has the moolah simply because the US can't maintian a large force the way it is right now. It might fall harder than the Soviet Union of the old days.

Hell, I might even find an Aurora on ebay.

Originally posted by RedBaron
With the economy headed to the dumps, the deficit running a sprint, I foresee the sale of a few aircraft carriers, B2 bombers, Patriot missiles sold to China, Russia, India and whoever has the moolah

Hell, I might even find an Aurora on ebay.

Fat chance on them selling that to those countries Perhaps when They have a B-3 they might sell a B-2 to some allies like the UK or Israel.

Even Russia does not export all of their best Tech and they would never sell it to the US.

Do you think I could get a good price on E-bay for an F-15 or one of those A-10 thunderbolt tank killers, jus the 30mm cannon would be enough. I have heard that it takes around 5 knots off of the airseed of the A-10 when it is fired.

Hmm.

The idea behind this thread was simple, to point out to some of the americans and some europeans that their Military force are not the greatest, mainly in regards to the US MILITARY machine.

I did not start this thread for the purpose of comparing the arms, point for point but to point out in general [using some examples, I give you], that the US is not the best in every regard, it was to point out that while it does have it avantages and pros, it sure has hell has some down sides. The reason I voiced this is due to the fact that when reading some threads on this forum, there would always be come 12 year old american chanting in with "The US has the best of best@ etc, it hijacks threads and changes the course of the dicussion, for the worse, if these people are so narrow minded, why are they are on a """dicussion""" forum? dicussion implies sharing of ideas rather than spurting of some stupid comment with out reference to the case in hand.

I am sick and tired of reading the threads on this fine forum only to drop to the madness of the "The US is the best and no fighter etc has a hope against it" all this does is wreck a good dicussion and show a lack of respect for the opposing force or nation.

We all know of the technological advances that the US Military has made, we wouldn't be commenting on items involving them if we didn't, any one with a TV, radio or net connection knows it, we don't need some narrow minded person wrecking dicussions, throwing it into threads every time some one throws in the mix a valid point, or shows some proof that the vaulted US Military has failed or isn't up to par with another, a good case would be the threads in regards to the US vs China if they invaded taiwan. Its sad that dicussions can be hijacked by such narrow minded people.

I would be more than happy to see people dicuss items on this forums without the impending doom of some 12 year old with a US Flag spouting off one liners.

- Philip

Originally posted by JamesBlonde
What about pople like Otto Lillenthal who designed the first gliders and discovered the basic principles of flight aroud the same time when certain americans were saying "Everything that can be invented is."

Cayley predates Lillienthal by several decades. He acheived the first manned heavier than air flight in 1854. He was too old to try it himself (he had been making 'pre-set' unmanned controllable gliders since 1804) so he sent his coachman up in it. The coachman promptly resigned stating "I was hire to drive, not to fly!"

[edit on 14-2-2005 by waynos]

gooseuk - You've done an excellent job on a dumb pointless thread.

You think theres to much "American Pride" in these forums? I disagree, there is enough, but some threads i have seen are pure anti-america.

I think this thread is 100% pointless.

I disagree,

I believe any thread that educates or tries to educate any american or other member for that matter, worth the time and effort to read and reply.

I admit I have seen some anti american threads, I do not agree with them, or condone them in any way or form, but this forum is for any user, not just for the north american continent, if it is I stand corrected and will leave, but if some of the american members do not have the common sense to offer more than one liners, they in my opinion lack an education or an open mind, its odd that this forum denies ignorance, when there are people on the forum that seem to be planted firmly in that zone of mentality.

- Philip

Note. Pride is not an excuse for narrow mindedness [word? lol] or stupidity.

[edit on 14-2-2005 by gooseuk]

[edit on 14-2-2005 by gooseuk]

I read the first couple of posts, then I didnt feel like reading the rest.

But Air Power, thats a simple fact.

What airplane can come close to the F-22 thats in productions right now? The F-22 is the most advanced plane in the world that we know about. That plane takes out planes without even shooting a missle or a bullet, it has a attack capability so powerful that it actually damages enemy electronics, and modifications that would allow the aircraft's electronic package to invade enemy computer networks.

the B-2, what more can you ask for
-Stealth
-Range
-Payload
-Hell of a machine

Now the JSF, another projected idea to equip it with a Laser, now that would seem odd, but how are you going to shoot it down? 100kw Laser

What aicraft can compete with these.

True but the B2 does present rather a large target area if attacked from above or below which would make it more vulnerable than most people would think to simple weapons like AAA, aircraft mounted guns or boresight missles. Personally I find it incredibly possible that any opposing foce with an effective communications net and good IR gear would make mincemeat of the B2 with the simplest of weapons.

Hell it might not be vulnerable to the latest weaponry but any aircraft armed with cannon in communication with ground would down itin a cinch without fighter escort.

The US made the same mistake over Schweinfurt and Regensburg in Aug 1943. Sending unescorted bombers into enemy trritory while they have a fighter force and a woking comnet is suicide.

Seen a lot of these from posters in Iran and India, but this is the first one from someone in Northern Ireland? For god's sake!

Check your history. You might win some in the beginning of a conflict because we weren't paying attention or underestimated you a little bit. But eventually, the U.S. will come back and take you down. After that, you'll join the ranks of the good little countries that have tried that before.

[edit on 2/14/2005 by centurion1211]

Here's what you're looking for: a little red state, ugly american, jingoistic, triumphalist bombast!
Command, Control, and Communication are the force multipiers that the US owns in spades- consider:
1. KH 13's
2. Lacrosse
3. Sigint systems
4. GPS
5. Milstar
6. All the black and grey systems discussed on ATS but not disclosed.

See first, hear first, kill first. Even if some the parts of the beast may be outclassed by some euro-russo-indio-chinese accessory, any chess player would rather be playing with an American set.

That's this 12 year old's opinion, anyway.

Originally posted by gooseuk
Hmm.

The idea behind this thread was simple, to point out to some of the americans and some europeans that their Military force are not the greatest, mainly in regards to the US MILITARY machine.

Hey Philip...

Ever think we don't need you pointing things out, especially if they aren't true?

This thread is simply stupid.

Bottom line:

Yes, there may be a few specific instances where the US does not hold the supreme advantege over an enemy.

But it doesn't matter because the US has every other advantage.

It's just the way it is. Are Americans proud of this? Hell yeah! We have a kick ass military that is second to none. Are we Patriotic about this? You better believe it. Our country has a proud history of defeating our enemies and upholding freedom.

Does this make us Jingoistic? NO! It is us telling it how it is. I'm sorry if it hurts everyone elses feelings to be told that their military is not is good, BUT IT IS A SIMPLE FACT.

Every time a geopolitical conversation gets started, you must eventually consider if war may come of it. When this happens you compare military power. Get over it. In 1939, Germany was the big kid on the block. in 200 AD, Rome was top dog. The US holds the time period of 1945-present and there is no way of getting around that.

What people also need to realize is that the United States designs such great military equipment through lots and lots of painstaking research; test pilots who risk their life to test new aircraft, and so forth.

And the American military is overall the best due to hard training and discipline. The US is not like some spoiled kid who is just super great at some sport because they are naturally talented, while everyone else has to work hard. The U.S. has to work hard too.