Why does the left believe that Fascism is on the right?

a reply to: Liquesence

How can communist believe in freedom when they advocate a Central Bank which can be utilize for control of the masses and debt slavery. In fact, the Central Bank in the US was created by Democrats a la Woodrow Wilson. All the messed up stuff started from Dems throughout history.

Central Bank: 5th plank of Marx's Communist Manifesto
Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto is the doctrine for those seeking a socialist dictatorship.

The United States and much of the rest of the world have a central bank. The the 5th plank of the Communist Manifesto actually calls for the establishment of a central bank.

When we have a central bank as advocated by the Communist Manifesto, how much of the banking system is actually dictated by free market conditions and how much of it is centrally controlled?

So why do socialist like central banks? It is about a control. A central bank controls the moneytary system. So as John Butler says in his article, "Marx and Lenin actually encouraged inflation as a means to confiscate wealth from the capitalists and concentrate it in a central bank owned and run by the state. The establishment of a central bank was plank 5 of Marx’s Communist Manifesto."

a reply to: amfirst1

The original left/right spectrum originated with the french constitutional assembly back in the 18th century or something like that.

Those on the right stood with the king (conservatives = monarchy = more government)

Those on the left stood with the revolutionaries (libertarians = representative gov = less government)

There is a flaw in there but I think most people don't catch it.

a reply to: daskakik

Yea, European history is much different from American history. Europe started the whole monarchy concept, so I guess you can say that is conservatism to them. While America was about freedom and being left alone which is their form of conservatism and liberals originally are not much different, until the 1920s when they started to be influenced by the socialists' concept with the rise of Fascism and Communist populism in Europe.

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Why do people on the right try to change the meaning of words, fascism is a far right doctrine, and communist are far left, op go back to school.

Exactly, literally the ONLY people I've ever heard make this claim are US right wingers circle jerking in online chat rooms and redefining terms. Political scientists globally generally consider the fascists to be right wingers.

Across Latin America for example a number of right wing fascistic dictators arose, in direct opposition to leftists, socialists, and communists. They were supported by American RIGHT WINGERS in that fight.

In the Spanish revolution it was a civil war between right wing fascist-leaning, conservative supported dictator Franco versus actual left revolutionaries.

Right wingers on ATS, stop redefining terms and history. It makes you look silly and uninformed.

Op, go back to the books.

I think the issue is a majority of americans have no clue about the spectrum of political ideas, the gop is right wing but closer to center just like the democrats are left wing but close to middle.

Have a nice day

Your first point is true. However, globally according to the larger political spectrum Republicans are actually considered fully right wing and democrats center or center right. The Democrats would be a Conservative party in Europe. They aren't "leftists" to actual leftists. Excepting some individuals and a few fringe parties such as green or communist, the left doesn't exist in the US in any strength. We live in a right wing society.

originally posted by: filthyphilanthropist

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: amfirst1
a reply to: underwerks


Can you watch Hitler's speech and say he is right wing with a straight face?? I mean he sounds like a SJW and calls himself a socialist. lol

Oh please. SJW? So you mean he is railing about black lives matter, or white privilege?

Do you even know what SJW means?

Different board, same game. Hitler was definitely his country's version of SJW. Instead of white folks, Christians, capitalist and climate change deniers, he SJWed jews, blacks, communists and gays.

There is some truth that sjws can begin to sound like Stormfront, flipped around, yes. But, the nature of the discourse and beliefs isn't quite identical.

a reply to: amfirst1

Actually the conservatives during the revolutionary war in the colonies were the loyalists. They also stood by the king and it was around the same time.

Also, not all the founding fathers of the US were about freedom and being left alone. There were federalists backed by bankers and businessmen who sought good relations with GB, a national bank, and opposed the guys standing on the left at that french assembly.

You can't really claim that the left/right spectrum was different in Europe than the US.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: filthyphilanthropist

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: amfirst1
a reply to: underwerks


Can you watch Hitler's speech and say he is right wing with a straight face?? I mean he sounds like a SJW and calls himself a socialist. lol

Oh please. SJW? So you mean he is railing about black lives matter, or white privilege?

Do you even know what SJW means?

Different board, same game. Hitler was definitely his country's version of SJW. Instead of white folks, Christians, capitalist and climate change deniers, he SJWed jews, blacks, communists and gays.

There is some truth that sjws can begin to sound like Stormfront, flipped around, yes. But, the nature of the discourse and beliefs isn't quite identical.

I'll concede that. It never is identical, but that's why it's the same game, different board. Classic Monopoly, Star Wars Monopoly, Anti-Monopoly... The themes, terminiology, and for all intents and purposes the discourse is different, but it's all the same game when you look past all that. Maybe the discourse and beliefs are different, but there are more similarities in principle than differences. Hitler was certainly not American right wing by any legitimate standards. It truly is most similar to the left and their SJWs.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: filthyphilanthropist

So you can take any group or leader and what they "stand against" and call it SJWing?

Trump is like Hitler but instead of jews, blacks, communists and gays he is SJWing travelers from the ME, border hoppers, swamp creatures and Obama's legacy. Hey it works!

I guess the political spectrum really is a horseshoe.

Lol! No, it doesn't work that way. That completely misses the point. Exactly what "legacy" Obama's left is up for debate, but the other three issues are valid political issues. The only one that could be compared is draining the swamp unless it is a bipartisan crackdown on corruption in goverment.

It is not the same kind of comparison I gavr earlier.

originally posted by: filthyphilanthropist
Lol! No, it doesn't work that way. That completely misses the point. Exactly what "legacy" Obama's left is up for debate, but the other three issues are valid political issues. The only one that could be compared is draining the swamp unless it is a bipartisan crackdown on corruption in goverment.

It is not the same kind of comparison I gavr earlier.

It's the same game, different board, unless it doesn't fit your argument?

Every SJW thinks their issues are valid, that is why they are fighting.

a reply to: amfirst1



The Fabian Way

a reply to: daskakik

The United States was founded on freedom from the Monarchy, so that would be the United States starting point and therefore, the conservative origin. The American Revolution ideas are essentially what conservatives in America idolize.

a reply to: daskakik

To understand Americanism, you first have to understand the definition of Republicanism and Democracy and the founding fathers. This is the bases of conservatism in America. Do you really believe conservatives in America want a Monarchy?? LOL name anyone who advocates it. www.youtube.com...

a reply to: xuenchen

The Communists Socialists created the Central Banks to enslave the world, yet they claim to be for freedom and independence. It couldn't be further from the truth. They created the Central Banks as part of their 5th Plank for control of the masses and thus the world. That's why they are known as International Socialists which in modern days it became the foundation of the Globalists Bankers agenda.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: amfirst1

Actually the conservatives during the revolutionary war in the colonies were the loyalists. They also stood by the king and it was around the same time.

Also, not all the founding fathers of the US were about freedom and being left alone. There were federalists backed by bankers and businessmen who sought good relations with GB, a national bank, and opposed the guys standing on the left at that french assembly.

You can't really claim that the left/right spectrum was different in Europe than the US.

This, the founding fathers were mostly humanists and enlightenment thinkers, which were the liberals and progressives of their time. The conservatives back then were royalists.

originally posted by: filthyphilanthropist

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: filthyphilanthropist

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: amfirst1
a reply to: underwerks


Can you watch Hitler's speech and say he is right wing with a straight face?? I mean he sounds like a SJW and calls himself a socialist. lol

Oh please. SJW? So you mean he is railing about black lives matter, or white privilege?

Do you even know what SJW means?

Different board, same game. Hitler was definitely his country's version of SJW. Instead of white folks, Christians, capitalist and climate change deniers, he SJWed jews, blacks, communists and gays.

There is some truth that sjws can begin to sound like Stormfront, flipped around, yes. But, the nature of the discourse and beliefs isn't quite identical.

I'll concede that. It never is identical, but that's why it's the same game, different board. Classic Monopoly, Star Wars Monopoly, Anti-Monopoly... The themes, terminiology, and for all intents and purposes the discourse is different, but it's all the same game when you look past all that. Maybe the discourse and beliefs are different, but there are more similarities in principle than differences. Hitler was certainly not American right wing by any legitimate standards. It truly is most similar to the left and their SJWs.

This is a deeper discussion that while I'm into it, I'm traveling out of state so can't engage fully right now unfortunately. To your last point though, people need to stop using modern American conservatism as the definition of global right wing. It's not. Just as, neither are democrats the definition of global leftism. On a global and political science scale, often the democrats are considered center or center right wing, mostly due to deregulation, wall st friendly policies, and like the republicans supporting neo imperialism and colonialism. There are right wing tendencies in fascism from corporatism/pro capitalism to hyper nationalism and ethno-centrism.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Colonialism and Imperialism have always been a Democrat concept and happen on Democrats presidential watch. Most wars are started by Dems, only Afghan and Iraq was started by Bush. So you have that in reverse. Globalism is the modern Colonialism by using Bankers to enslave the world through debt. It was think tank during the early 1900s during Democrat FDR tenure when the colonialist realized that they needed a more stealth means to take over the world, so the Democrats created the CFR, which created the NSA, CIA, and UN. They then recruited the bankers to merge with their agenda to financially enslave and control other countries because colonialism was not working. Today this conglomerate is known as the Shadow government or deep state or military industrial complex, a system of bankers, financial elites, and military intelligence emerging as one. This is a leftwing concept that was think tank by all leftwing elite Rockerfeller who pave way for the CIA, CFR, NSA and UN a leftwing funded idea to the creation of the Central Banks. Sure they have compromise some on the right, but it's origin and roots came from the American left.

This is essentially the fourth branch of government which in my point of view is the most powerful because they are not accountable and are involved in selecting presidents, up until Trump accidentally won, and they went batsh17 crazy by trying to undermind and infiltrate his cabinet with their members, Mcmaster happen to stand out as one of them.

originally posted by: amfirst1
The United States was founded on freedom from the Monarchy, so that would be the United States starting point and therefore, the conservative origin. The American Revolution ideas are essentially what conservatives in America idolize.

Only modern conservatives. At that time the conservatives were the ones that wanted to "conserve" the status quo.

Do you really believe conservatives in America want a Monarchy??

Not anymore but it would serve people well to understand that "conservative and progressive" are not frozen in time. The labels shift with the status quo.

At the time of the american revolution the "right wing" was occupied by those who fought for the crown.

Also, you can't refute that there were federalists (pro big central government) among the founding fathers. It is a matter of record. They were not a group who all thought the same.

This isn't just about american history though. It is about the american take on the left/right spectrum and why their insistence that it denotes more/less government is wrong. Seems you also missed the flaw I mentioned earlier.

People associate the right with nationalism/fascism, for the same reason people associate communism / socialism with the left. They are absurd exaggerations to make the other party look bad. Both sides do it.

a reply to: Barcs

So that means that the left is anti nationalism, they believe in World Banking Government, if the far right is extremely nationalism. Glad someone finally admits they are anti American and globalist. Hey I'm just using your logic. If one thing is on the other side then the alternative has to be the opposite.

a reply to: amfirst1

What does nationalism mean? Doesn't it mean putting the collective first?