Why does the left believe that Fascism is on the right?

originally posted by: amfirst1
a reply to: underwerks


Can you watch Hitler's speech and say he is right wing with a straight face?? I mean he sounds like a SJW and calls himself a socialist. lol

Oh please. SJW? So you mean he is railing about black lives matter, or white privilege?

Do you even know what SJW means?

originally posted by: amfirst1
a reply to: daskakik

Well, that is human nature to cheat, steal, envy, and strive to be better. There are only few that can overcome the ego. The problem with socialism is that it doesn't compensate for human nature, so it presumes that everyone is the same and will follow the system they create. Well not everyone wants to be part of the system, some people may just want to be nomads or left alone. If that happens in numbers, it will just self-destruct the socialist system, which is why a volunteer system with no incentives does not work. If I work harder and make the same as you do then why the hell work in the first place? It's a race to the bottom. Therefore, authoritarianism and centralization follows socialism and mandates requires people to follow the rules.

Yes, but so too do many conservative positions show naivety on a number of fronts. For example, this concept that if we just deregulate everything then companies won't pollute the environment or commons is absurd. History simply doesn't support that. Many conservatives wail about "wealth redistribution" but utterly fail to admit that many individuals, companies, and nations have factually obtained their wealth through unethical, illegal, or even murderous conduct.

I don't think the average lib walking down the street even knows what fascism is. Don't waste time learning anything. It sounds like an insult so just throw it at the right and yell NAZI if anyone calls you out.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Funny, I never thought of Margaret Atwood's "A Handmaid's Tale" as a liberal fascist utopia...

Why is it the millenium's or whatever they call themselves,have no knowledge of the law,seems we learned about goverment laws in 7th grade,guess they have a new curriculum,with a box of crayons and a scratch pad

I'm simply going to answer the O.P.'s question.

One facet of fascism is the idea that the Aryan race is superior and that all other races and even religions should be killed off. This goes against the liberal idea of inclusion. Conservatives may think that liberals want to exterminate Christians, but this is paranoia. Liberals don't like how Christians today discriminate against homosexuals, among other things, and want to keep them from making laws pushing their faith onto others.

Conservative Christians also tend to dislike the idea of women gaining equality, and fascism also promoted a masculine culture. In Italy, for example, fascists thought that the role of the woman was in the home and were extremely against women in the workplace.

This is just one example, from Italy again, because the O.P. seems to think that Italy's fascism was especially liberal.

Fascism sought to accommodate Italian conservatives by making major alterations to its political agenda—abandoning its previous populism, republicanism and anticlericalism, adopting policies in support of free enterprise and accepting the Roman Catholic Church and the monarchy as institutions in Italy.[120] To appeal to Italian conservatives, Fascism adopted policies such as promoting family values, including promotion policies designed to reduce the number of women in the workforce limiting the woman's role to that of a mother.

A lot of conservative Christians also don't like helping the poor, even though this was part of the teachings of Jesus. Fascism outlawed labor unions and was often against the working class.

This is just one example, from Italy:

In 1920, militant strike activity by industrial workers reached its peak in Italy and 1919 and 1920 were known as the "Red Years".[117] Mussolini and the Fascists took advantage of the situation by allying with industrial businesses and attacking workers and peasants in the name of preserving order and internal peace in Italy.[118]

Fascism also promoted a hierarchal structure, which is against liberalism's ideals. Liberalism promotes a society where the individual (regardless of race, gender, or sexual orientation, or even religious beliefs) has the power to BE an individual and control their own lives. Go figure, fascists killed off people of different races, sexual orientations, and certain religious beliefs.

Sure, a lot of people think that liberals want to shut down Christianity, but this is not so - liberals only want to keep Christians from controlling people who aren't like them. A lot of liberals don't even mind if Christians have their own belief system that they keep to themselves.

Some scholars consider fascism to be right-wing because of its social conservatism and its authoritarian means of opposing egalitarianism.[47][48] Roderick Stackelberg places fascism—including Nazism, which he says is "a radical variant of fascism"—on the political right by explaining: "The more a person deems absolute equality among all people to be a desirable condition, the further left he or she will be on the ideological spectrum. The more a person considers inequality to be unavoidable or even desirable, the further to the right he or she will be".[49]

Seems pretty straightforward there.

Even many Italian fascists were on the right.

Major Italian groups politically on the right, especially rich landowners and big business, feared uprising by groups on the left such as sharecroppers and labour unions.[56] They welcomed Fascism and supported its violent suppression of opponents on the left.

The reason the O.P. is confused is that fascism is not only influenced by the right. Some fascists were on the left, and some fascist ideas are similar to those on the left. For one thing, fascism was a totalitarian system, much like communism can be. Many people view both the extreme right and extreme left as having the possibility of being totalitarian.

I could go on.

Wikipedia: Fascism

Thank you Darkbake, it was nice to see somebody have a good shot at answering OPs question, without it turning into some utter nonsense about how Hitler was really a leftie socialist and SJWs are the new Nazis.



I hope the rest of the people who have posted such utter nonsense in this thread read your post.

a reply to: darkbake

Only contention ill take is that liberalism doesnt value the individual insomuch as it values the individuals impact on the aggregate.

Conservatism is concerned more with the individual (at least theoretically) and not the aggregate.

A well apportioned contribution.

Because they buy into the flat political spectrum (left to right). Truth is a political spectrum can be drawn in 2 dimensions and even 3 dimensions. With the left to right spectrum being but one of the axes. Another axes can be Authoritarian to Libertarian.

Facism resides on the far Authoritarian side of the Authoritarian to Libertarian spectrum, but can equally exist any where along the left to right spectrum. Where on the left to right spectrum it lies dictates the nuances of the Fascist regime.

Take Musciliany for example; a stonch socialist for most of his early life. The 1d left right spectrum would have you believe he made a extreme political life change when he took more and more power. Truth is he didn't abandon most of his "socialist" beliefs he just became increasingly Authoritarian about them.

Hitler on the other hand was not a socialist and was fearful of the left (on the 1d right left spectrum). Truth is though he was also not far right ether; he agreed with government intervention when it suited him. We could easily put him in the leaning right category many on the American right are today. Again like Musciliany he didn't move more to the 1d right when he took more and more power; he moved closer to the extreme side of Authoritarianism on a 2d political plain.

Howere because Hitler was to the right on the 1d spectrum and is the most famous Fascist in history and because most people only see the 1d spectrum Fascism is seen to be a right wing ideology. It's accutaly kind of scarey because that almost guarantees that the next great Fascist to threaten the world won't come from the right and so the world won't even see it coming.

a reply to: darkbake

The "sources" from the wiki are not credible.

No way to analyze.

a reply to: amfirst1

Excellent thread, OP -- thank you! Well researched, well thought out, well written, and quite pertinent to the political discussions and debates of the day.

For those living in their partisan echo chambers, it will go right over their heads... but for those with the eyes to see and the ears to listen, there is much wisdom to be gleaned from your post.

a reply to: strongfp

It's not that socialist mindsets can't work, it's that the leaders chosen abuse the power.

Ding! Ding! Ding! This the most profound and true response I've read in this thread -- and I've read every response thus far.

The bottom line is simple: No matter what we call any type of government, the problems begin when we give others power over us and give up our own power over ourselves. It will be abused, if not sooner than later.

originally posted by: Konduit

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969

originally posted by: Konduit
a reply to: dukeofjive696969

Actually... it's not people on the right that are changing the definitions.

Google Redefines The Word ‘Fascism’ To Smear Conservatives, Protect Liberal Rioters

Hitler was a fascist and mussolini a fascist, so that means they were commies right, stop reading breitbart son, you wont look so stupid next time.

Nobody mentioned Breitbart or Communism. You're having a hard time tonight. Why is it so difficult for leftists to put up an argument without resorting to insults?


WHy is it so hard for trumptards to stop making stuff up to make there side look better.

Fascism is always on the right spectrum, always has always will.

edit on 28-12-2017 by dukeofjive696969 because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-12-2017 by dukeofjive696969 because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: amfirst1

Why does the left believe that Fascism is on the right?

Ah donno?? Maybe because it is??..commies are generally leftist in the extreme.

I don't know about all that. Antifa is ironically fascist jn nature. The Nazis would have been fiercely contested by even modern American conservatives. I think people forget or simply don't know what exactly is fascism. They all create their own ideas of what they think it means and apply it to others. Parts of the right wing are fascist in nature like parts of the left are not, but in the same way most of the right wing are not in the slightest fascist.

a reply to: filthyphilanthropist

"Fascist" is a synonym for "evil" in the modern religious political paradigm.

Well you are correct..... However, Right wing is terrorism and republicans are evil; plus, Hitler and his fascism was somehow right wing, and something else about Jesus being socialist, and babies and stuff.

(At least that's how I interpret the Extreme Fallacy that fascism is a right wing ideology..... Not a very good argument)

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: AboveBoard

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: dfnj2015

I thought they mean this.

See their witch hunt with the FBI acting as the gestapo going papers please.

Yikes. That sounds exactly like a certain someone currently residing in the White House.

Perhaps, but the quote is of questionable provenance.

I wasn't sure if it was real or not...my point still stands, however... So. Much. Winning.

originally posted by: filthyphilanthropist

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: amfirst1

Why does the left believe that Fascism is on the right?

Ah donno?? Maybe because it is??..commies are generally leftist in the extreme.

I don't know about all that. Antifa is ironically fascist jn nature. The Nazis would have been fiercely contested by even modern American conservatives. I think people forget or simply don't know what exactly is fascism. They all create their own ideas of what they think it means and apply it to others. Parts of the right wing are fascist in nature like parts of the left are not, but in the same way most of the right wing are not in the slightest fascist.

We understand the definition of fascism, antifa can be violent and have nothing to do with fascism, there anarchist and pro left wing, pretty simple if you ask me.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Why do people on the right try to change the meaning of words, fascism is a far right doctrine, and communist are far left, op go back to school.

Exactly, literally the ONLY people I've ever heard make this claim are US right wingers circle jerking in online chat rooms and redefining terms. Political scientists globally generally consider the fascists to be right wingers.

Across Latin America for example a number of right wing fascistic dictators arose, in direct opposition to leftists, socialists, and communists. They were supported by American RIGHT WINGERS in that fight.

In the Spanish revolution it was a civil war between right wing fascist-leaning, conservative supported dictator Franco versus actual left revolutionaries.

Right wingers on ATS, stop redefining terms and history. It makes you look silly and uninformed.

Op, go back to the books.

I think the issue is a majority of americans have no clue about the spectrum of political ideas, the gop is right wing but closer to center just like the democrats are left wing but close to middle.

Have a nice day

a reply to: links234

That is true if you read history and study the eugenics movement in the US.

www.sfgate.com...