It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why does the left believe that Fascism is on the right?

page: 5
27
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 04:58 PM
link   
a reply to: underwerks


Can you watch Hitler's speech and say he is right wing with a straight face?? I mean he sounds like a SJW and calls himself a socialist. lol


edit on 27-12-2017 by amfirst1 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 05:21 PM
link   
a reply to: amfirst1

It starts off with him saying MAGA in german. Then he goes off and rants against multiculturalism.

Not gonna waste the other 9 minutes after that start.
edit on 27-12-2017 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 05:22 PM
link   
a reply to: daskakik

The screen shot shows him saying something about how loyalty to him is really important?



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 05:23 PM
link   
a reply to: amfirst1

I don't know where you got that list from but it's been selectively edited.

There are 25 points, in total, and you can play them to both sides:


We demand the unification of all Germans in the Greater Germany on the basis of the people's right to self-determination.


Sounds very libertarian to me if only for the 'self-determination' part.


Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the race can only be one who is of German blood, without consideration of creed. Consequently, no Jew can be a member of the race.


Just straight up racist but Obama was born in Kenya and we need to build the wall.


We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens...


F-ing socialists!


...If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.


Kick those DACA kids out and no more refugees!


The first obligation of every citizen must be to productively work mentally or physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all.


No more freeloaders/food stamps/welfare!


Any further immigration of non-citizens is to be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since 2 August 1914, be forced immediately to leave the Reich.


Again, no more refugees or immigrants.


We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.


Reminds me of Cliven Bundy and his militia.


We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: The common good before the individual good.


You could just replace Jewish with Muslim and it could work just as well today.

Again though, it can go both ways:


Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.

All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.

In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore, we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.

We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.


Agreeing with some of these totally makes you a NAZI, agreeing with others...not so much.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 05:34 PM
link   
a reply to: daskakik

So you are globalists?



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 05:35 PM
link   
a reply to: links234

You do know Democrats were the ones that supported Slavery and created the KKK, Jim Crow Laws, etc? In fact, Hitler got his ideas from the American left.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 05:36 PM
link   
a reply to: amfirst1

I'm an I-dont't-give-a-damn-because-everything-is-really-crony-capitalism-ist.

Not that that changes what was shown in that video, which you seem to think somehow bolsters your argument.



edit on 27-12-2017 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 05:43 PM
link   
a reply to: daskakik

Well, that is human nature to cheat, steal, envy, and strive to be better. There are only few that can overcome the ego. The problem with socialism is that it doesn't compensate for human nature, so it presumes that everyone is the same and will follow the system they create. Well not everyone wants to be part of the system, some people may just want to be nomads or left alone. If that happens in numbers, it will just self-destruct the socialist system, which is why a volunteer system with no incentives does not work. If I work harder and make the same as you do then why the hell work in the first place? It's a race to the bottom. Therefore, authoritarianism and centralization follows socialism and mandates requires people to follow the rules.
edit on 27-12-2017 by amfirst1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 05:55 PM
link   
a reply to: amfirst1

What does any of that have to do with the video of hitler calling to "Make Germany Great Again" and denouncing multiculturalism?

According to some who have experienced socialism and communism first hand it is really crony capitalism, with those within the inner circle making more than others. There is your incentive to work harder.



edit on 27-12-2017 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 05:57 PM
link   
Many here confuse similar interests between right and left as them being the same. They oppose each other even though they may agree on something its usually for different reasons. For example far left and far right hate globalization. For the left, the problem with globalisation is that it has given free rein to capital and entrenched economic and political inequality. The solution is therefore to place constraints on capital and/or to allow people to have the same freedom of movement currently given to capital, goods, and services.For the right, the problem with globalisation is that it has corroded supposedly traditional and homogeneous cultural and ethnic communities – their solution is therefore to reverse globalisation, protecting national capital and placing further restrictions on the movement of people. Both oppose it for different reasons this in no way means they are similar. When examining political ideology you must look at the reason as well.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 06:27 PM
link   
These never ending posts attempting to somehow tarnish liberalism is tiring. Liberalism brought you out of the work houses, gave you a 40 hour week, overtime pay, vacation, sick leave, sick pay, collective bargaining for better pay, leave and retirement...liberalism brought electricity to the mountain peoples of our central eastern states...airbags, seat belts, unleaded gasoline, clean drinking water...nearly better air to breathe...the minimum wage....liberalism has brought all of us working people the best things about being a worker in a capitalist state. CONSERVATISM on the other hand has brought us less freedom, more governmental intrusion , rules and corporate monopoly. I am 60 years old and EVERY tine the minimum wage has been increased, without fail, conservatives have stated emphatically that "raising the minimum wage will kill jobs"...and in EVERY INSTANCE they have been PROVEN wrong. Conservatives would bring back debtor's prisons, forced and coerced prayer, lower wages by killing off collevtive bargaining, little or none retirement benefits, zero healthcare help and forced conscription to support endless military forays to feed the ravenous and always hungry military industrial complex, not to mention the total survellience state crested by conservatism and governmrnt run amok in the Patriot Act....so, get off your conservative soapbox there right winger....there's more than enough blame across the political spectrum to share.
edit on 27-12-2017 by KeithCooper because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 06:28 PM
link   

Why does the left believe that Fascism is on the right?


It's predominantly a right-wing ideology.
edit on 27-12-2017 by Liquesence because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 06:58 PM
link   

originally posted by: amfirst1
a reply to: links234

You do know Democrats were the ones that supported Slavery and created the KKK, Jim Crow Laws, etc?


I mean, sure, if you completely ignore the first half of the 20th century.


In fact, Hitler got his ideas from the American left.


I don't think that's true.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 07:08 PM
link   
a reply to: bender151

Fascism is a totalitarian, and oppressive political mind set. Yes, you are right, right wing conservatism wants to keep free markets and promote a capitalistic mindset that everything will work itself out in the end.
Progressive mindset is not quite what you insinuate, it wants society to progress together, to thrive together, as one unit. Both 'sides' want some what the same when you think about it.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 09:58 PM
link   

originally posted by: EvillerBob

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: amfirst1

There were both left and right factions within Moussolini’s Fascist party. The collectivism and repudiation of individualism, symbolized by the bundle of rods, best describes the underlying beliefs. Collectivism and the repudiation of individualism is Found predominantly on the left.


Brilliant answer.

Draw a line. At one end of the line, the individual controls the individual. At the other end of the line, all individuals are controlled by the state. This is the true political spectrum.

The obvious examples still work - the guy living in his cabin in the woods, fending for himself and shooting at the revnoo men is still pretty far right. The SJWs trying to control what everyone thinks or says are still pretty far left.

The less obvious ones are more interesting. The people passing "morality" laws - bible belt anti-abortionists to use a stereotype - have always been considered right wing. The reality is that they are actually closer to centrist, or centrist left. The free love hippies into smoking dope, "sticking it to the Man", and rocking around in the ol' VW camper van? They're actually closer to the right.

Think of the line as granularity of control. The more granular the control - so the less the government is involved, the more the individual takes on their own risks and responsibilities - the more to the right they sit.

You'll also see a similar parallel with globalism/nationalism. The further to the left, the "bigger" the picture - ie, globalism. As you move to the right, globalism shrinks to nationalism. As you continue, nationalism gives way to smaller and smaller community groups, until you are down to the individual.




This.

Very accurate and well put and I could never express it as clearly but let me humbly try to simplify it even further with an example an old poli-sci professor once told me way, way back:

Hell's Angels= far right.

Green Beret= far left.

Everyone else= confused.


edit on 27-12-2017 by Maverick1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 10:12 PM
link   

originally posted by: Maverick1

originally posted by: EvillerBob

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: amfirst1

There were both left and right factions within Moussolini’s Fascist party. The collectivism and repudiation of individualism, symbolized by the bundle of rods, best describes the underlying beliefs. Collectivism and the repudiation of individualism is Found predominantly on the left.


Brilliant answer.

Draw a line. At one end of the line, the individual controls the individual. At the other end of the line, all individuals are controlled by the state. This is the true political spectrum.

The obvious examples still work - the guy living in his cabin in the woods, fending for himself and shooting at the revnoo men is still pretty far right. The SJWs trying to control what everyone thinks or says are still pretty far left.

The less obvious ones are more interesting. The people passing "morality" laws - bible belt anti-abortionists to use a stereotype - have always been considered right wing. The reality is that they are actually closer to centrist, or centrist left. The free love hippies into smoking dope, "sticking it to the Man", and rocking around in the ol' VW camper van? They're actually closer to the right.

Think of the line as granularity of control. The more granular the control - so the less the government is involved, the more the individual takes on their own risks and responsibilities - the more to the right they sit.

You'll also see a similar parallel with globalism/nationalism. The further to the left, the "bigger" the picture - ie, globalism. As you move to the right, globalism shrinks to nationalism. As you continue, nationalism gives way to smaller and smaller community groups, until you are down to the individual.




This.

Very accurate and well put and I could never express it as clearly but let me humbly try to simplify it even further with an example an old poli-sci professor once told me way, way back:

Hell's Angels= far right.

Green Beret= far left.

Everyone else= confused.



Having known Green Berets in my time (bless them for their work). They are not far left. They are not left (those I've met/ known).
Try again.



posted on Dec, 28 2017 @ 12:48 AM
link   

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969

originally posted by: Konduit
a reply to: dukeofjive696969

Actually... it's not people on the right that are changing the definitions.

Google Redefines The Word ‘Fascism’ To Smear Conservatives, Protect Liberal Rioters


Hitler was a fascist and mussolini a fascist, so that means they were commies right, stop reading breitbart son, you wont look so stupid next time.


Nobody mentioned Breitbart or Communism. You're having a hard time tonight. Why is it so difficult for leftists to put up an argument without resorting to insults?



posted on Dec, 28 2017 @ 01:00 AM
link   

originally posted by: amfirst1
I learned in Political Science and History that Fascism is a phenomenon of the left. Their roots and ideas all came from leftists. But for some weird reason the leftists and their institutions have convinced people that Fasicism is right wing.

Conservatism and right wing in America are ideas from the American Revolution: free markets, decentralization, individual over the collective, limited government, and the rule of law. All of these qualities are opposite from Fascism.

Keep in mind Europe has nothing similar to the right in America, from what I can tell, they are mostly leftist type governments throughout history, so something that is slightly off from their tradition rocker, they might call it right, but it's not even close to anything right in America.

The history of Fascism and the founders were all socialist. Mussolini was the chief editor of the most popular socialist newspaper in Italy. Hitler's Nazi 25 planks sounded like something like the Democrat platform. In fact, he got his Eugenics ideas from the Democrat party in America from the Trail of Tears and genocide of Indians through policies from Andrew Jackson a known Democrat, and the KKK and Slavery from the Democrat Party, eugenics progressive movement in the 1900s that the ford foundation, Rockefeller, and Carnigie funded Berkeley, yale, and harvard to push were all leftists. heck even the Japanese internment camp came from Democrats, but magically everything gets blamed on the party that freed the slaves and sent the US Military to protect blacks from the Democrat KKK military, not to mention passed the first civil rights act of 1875 only to be ruled unconstitutional by the Democrat supreme court judges, and Christians united with blacks to marched with Martin Luther King and helped push his movement over the top.

The left says Fascism is corporatism, militaristic, and nationalistic. However, nationalism is not exclusive to right or left, it's either you believe in country and borders or you believe in globalism and world government. They say the right is militaristic, yes they tend to favor a strong military, but most wars were all started by Democrats: WWI, WWII, N Korea, Vietnam, Syria, modern wars, outside of Iraq and Afghanistan which was oddly started by Bush. As far as corporatism, fascist had strict requirements that business was to adhere and worked for the state if they want to do business. This is nothing similar to a free markets that the right advocates.

My History and Political Science class all point to Fascism can only occur in a leftwing government and tends to proceed right after the failures of the economy and international socialism, which leads to the early 1900s when Fascism was introduced. It can not proceed after a Republic type government. It moves like this throughout history Republic >> Democracy >> Communism >> Fascism >> then back to Republic when people realized the last two are failures. Republic is an idea embraced by the right as well. I'm just trying to inject some logic into the left because I can't stand it when people don't understand history.


Except you didn't learn that in political science. Virtually every political science source I've read and including formal sources/degrees/coursework describe fascism as being a far right wing phenomenon. Parts of this include hyper nationalism, ethno-centric thinking, corporate and national collusion, etc. As Mussolini stated, it's corporatism or merging of corporation and state.

I'm sorry, can you please cite your sources for your claim? I've only ever seen right wing Americans claim this.



posted on Dec, 28 2017 @ 01:07 AM
link   

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Why do people on the right try to change the meaning of words, fascism is a far right doctrine, and communist are far left, op go back to school.



Exactly, literally the ONLY people I've ever heard make this claim are US right wingers circle jerking in online chat rooms and redefining terms. Political scientists globally generally consider the fascists to be right wingers.

Across Latin America for example a number of right wing fascistic dictators arose, in direct opposition to leftists, socialists, and communists. They were supported by American RIGHT WINGERS in that fight.

In the Spanish revolution it was a civil war between right wing fascist-leaning, conservative supported dictator Franco versus actual left revolutionaries.

Right wingers on ATS, stop redefining terms and history. It makes you look silly and uninformed.

Op, go back to the books.



posted on Dec, 28 2017 @ 01:11 AM
link   

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: bender151

Fascism is a totalitarian, and oppressive political mind set. Yes, you are right, right wing conservatism wants to keep free markets and promote a capitalistic mindset that everything will work itself out in the end.
Progressive mindset is not quite what you insinuate, it wants society to progress together, to thrive together, as one unit. Both 'sides' want some what the same when you think about it.


The problem is your first definition is partly true regarding economic deregulation, but not in total. Right wing conservatism globally absolutely has NOT been defined by this historically or in total. It's also been defined by traditionalism, elitism, class distinctions, religiousity, nationalism, often empire and colonialism, etc.

I see this often with American conservatives and apparently ATS. Magically now people on here want to redefine what conservative or right wing means GLOBALLY via very recent ideological and narrow visions of American conservatism.

Even that is fallacious. I've lived through many American conservatives claiming freedom but then applauding invasions of countries, torture, unlimited surveillance, etc. For years many were against gay rights. To this very day many are and are for controlling people's sex lives and things like people's use of substances. Many conservatives STILL want to suppress marijuana despite vast evidence it's far safer and healthier than alcohol or most pharmaceutical drugs. The majority are in support of totalitarianism, just on their own terms. In short, hypocrites with few exceptions.
edit on 28-12-2017 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)




top topics



 
27
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join