What parts of the dossier have been corroborated?

originally posted by: darkbake

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
But i appreciate darkbake taking the time to enumerate his on topic reply to the OP.

Thanks, I was just trying to answer the O.P.'s question. I'm betting the intelligence community has more information than just the dossier to go on. I think Grambler overestimates how much the intelligence community is relying on only the dossier.

Sure, I'll look into the information in Grambler's replies to my posts.

Like I said before if Mueller is going to charge people, he knows he will have to have more evidence to go on than just the dossier. I also would not be surprised if there was no evidence of collusion between Trump himself and Russia.

Even so, I do still think the Russians hacked the DNC and leaked the information to Wikileaks, and that they were experimenting with using social media to influence our election using fake news stories in order to get Trump elected over Hillary.

If they ever had anything substantive, Trump would not be president right now. People forget that they spied on the Trump campaign and there is no collusion with Russia to fix the election in favor of Trump. You can be sure that something would have leaked by now. The most they'll get is Flynn and Manafort or whoever else for shock value for some kind of financial wrongdoing but not the purpose of the special counsel.

It's been a public trial in the media with guilty until proven innocent. The next angle they have is to overexarrate Manaoforts role in the Trump campaign because he going to be Muellers punching bag for Trump. I've heard the narrative already on XM radio and bow they tee each other up on Manafort bc there might be a new indictment coming.

originally posted by: xuenchen
I think the whole Dossier is verified.


as a hoax

I agree after reading it, it appears to be total BS.

The best lies are built around known truths. For example, we know that Trump WAS in Russia at the time he was supposed to have hired hookers to pee on a bed. We also know that he stayed at the hotel in question on the night in question. So we can say that 3 key pieces of the dossier have been corroborated - date, time, place. Without the 4th part of this 'scene' (the hookers), the story is meaningless in any political sense, of course.

The dossier is laced with this kind of verified intelligence - nothing untoward, just dates, times, places.

I believe that whoever concocted the narrative did so well in advance, with the core information on which to base the story all laid out.

a reply to: Grambler

So the DNC and FBI Clintonites mixed in the fake dossier some public information and just because they added known information doesn't mean it is true. It's like I said you are a male and Russian agent. It doesn't mean that you are a Russian agent because I got male part right.

This is the type of logic the fake news clown are running with. ahhaahah it's so funny, I mean does anyone still believe the bs? I would think maybe one or two on here, but even leftists don't believe it. They think it's crazy as hell.

a reply to: Grambler

Grambler, unless I've slipped a cog, this was only brought out, "meeting in Andy's office", by Judicial Watch's lawsuit. So it's only the frost on top of the visible top of an Iceberg. So far, the DOJ, has been a complete farce, and those FISA judges are fully complicit in this Coup attempt.

However, there is an ongoing DOJ Inspector General, I G's, investigation which also briefed Mueller about that meeting.

My personal take is that DOJ is the crookedist operation, we've ever had in our Gov't. They and their FBI stooges are at the bottom of every bad stunt which we've had to endure, for the Twentieth Century. Yes, I know the FBI was created in 1924. So Gov't Poohbahs were working the same streets, well before either Dir. Hoover, the IRS, or Prohibition.

edit; After sleeping on it, I'd say that after the Assassination of Pres. Lincoln, his V.P. Andrew Johnson, couldn't control Lincoln's renegade Cabinet Officers. So Jay Gould's cornering the Gold market, and 'Doc' Durant's stealing a million cotton bales from destitute Southerners, really kicked Reconstruction into gear. And Reconstruction is the beginning of our present day "Deep State". They stole way too much money, and they got away with it.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Flatfish

Indictments for what, though?

For behaviors exhibited in the aid of Trump? The worst you have with that is Flynn lying to the FBI during a half assed, impromptu, and unusual interrogation.

Yeah well, go tell that crap to the grand jury because I don’t think they view it quite the same way that you and other Trump supporters do.

Apparently Flynn knows the truth too, because he submitted a guilty plea and he’s now aiding the prosecution in an attempt to stay out of prison and keep his asshole intact.

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Flatfish

Indictments for what, though?

For behaviors exhibited in the aid of Trump? The worst you have with that is Flynn lying to the FBI during a half assed, impromptu, and unusual interrogation.

Yeah well, go tell that crap to the grand jury because I don’t think they view it quite the same way that you and other Trump supporters do.

What grand jury? Are there charges against Trump that I am unaware of?

Im not a Trump supporter. My support of Trump only extends so far as the mendacious behavior of his detractors. I still won't vote for the guy, and would carry your torch if you had relevant complaints about him (beyond a crowd size conflation).

Apparently Flynn knows the truth too, because he submitted a guilty plea and he’s now aiding the prosecution in an attempt to stay out of prison and keep his asshole intact.

Again, are you aware of something I am not? Flynn plead guilty to lying to the FBI in exchange for testimony. What is that testimony? Are you inserting your own hopes into this in the absence of facts and details?

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

It’s what he lied about that’s incriminating. He lied about discussing sanctions relief with Russian diplomats.

I think the theory is that the Trump team conspired with the Russians for help with defeating Hillary in the election. The Russians had the stolen emails ready for barter, what did team Trump have? Could it have been sanctions relief?

It’s kinda, sorta beginning to look that way. Especially if there’s any truth to the alleged Flynn Inauguration Day text messages.

ETA; Sorry for including you in my statement referring to Trump supporters. I am aware that you did not vote for Trump and that your not a supporter, I just forgot who I was replying to at the time.

And as far as I know, there currently are no charges on Trump, but then I don’t think you can charge a sitting POTUS. I’m pretty sure he would have to be either out of office or removed from office prior to charging him with a crime outside of impeachment proceedings.

Although I am convinced that he did indeed attempt to obstruct Justice and that sooner or later he will be forced to face those allegations. I also further believe that when Mueller releases his findings, he will present evidence that Trump did indeed do just that.

a reply to: Flatfish

Ill tell you, it would be very interesting times if that came to pass.

Im secretly holding out to see Trump, Hillary, and Obama imprisoned. But im a bit of a madman. LOL

originally posted by: TheScale
anyone else noticing this trend where intelligent, logical people are now trying to defend the indefensible and just destroying any respect or merit their words may have warranted in the past? i get the feeling their subconscious is fully aware of the hypocrisy of their argument because there is very little effort being put in on their part whereas just a few months ago they were foaming at the mouth in any conversation to do with politics.

Yes, thank you for pointing this out. Sad times indeed.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Im secretly holding out to see Trump, Hillary, and Obama imprisoned.

In that order?

They can golf in federal prison. Right?

The dossier is not meant to be proven true or not true. This is precisely why it was written by a foreign private citizen. Congress cannot subpoena non Americans.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: The GUT

I haven't even read it. But I'm not the topic.

The OP has asked for something that no one on ATS is going to be able to provide.

Maybe that's the point. Perhaps, the greater point is the observation of how so many wordsmiths in both the media and the filter-down blogs are repeating 'narratives' to back one's own desire to combat this 'Trump upset'; that goes for significant discussion sites like ATS. The problem with these narratives is that they have thus far been essentially admitted as unverified. That doesn't detract from what may be later revealed...but the OP strikes me with legit concern of how unverified talking points on this subject are polluting our entire national political discussions right now. In a sense, Phage, you are lambasting this OP and thread with the very points being made by this thread. That's the art of 'political double speak'...or triple speak? Hell, I can't articulate like you geniuses.

a reply to: Grambler

Only that some campaign staffer took a trip to (gasp) Russia *around* the same time the fake dossier alleges.

Apparently the level of Russophobia and politically induced paranoia has reached a point of extreme ridiculousness. To be accused of some crime (which they haven't even proved actually occurred) simply for where you chose to travel is ludicrous. Traveling to Russia, talking to Russians, having dinner with Russians (including Putin) and other non-crimes are just that - not crimes.

Dems need for this Russia BS to be true so badly, they'll do and say anything as long as it continues to provide *some chance* (however infinitesimally small) that Trump will be removed from office. Sadly, they've betrayed their propaganda induced hysteria by attempting to erroneously link Russia to other events that didn't shake out in their favor.

Of course they ignore the fact that Trump is selling Ukraine lethal weapons... which even Obama refused to do.

They ignore the fact that Trump hit Russia's ally, the Syrian Government, with ~60 cruise missiles... which even Obama refused to do, despite Syria crossing his "red line" of using chemical weapons.

They ignore the fact that Trump has closed and seized Russian embassies (a possible act of war, since a foreign embassy is that nation's territory).

I mean, come on. They blame them for Brexit and pro-right wing groups, claiming that the magical Putin has it in for their ideology and wants to prop up the conservatives (which have been historically anti-Russian). The whole thing is just beyond ridiculous. I imagine the Dems will pay dearly in 2018/2020, much like they did in 2016. Although it important to note that we lost (not by much, but lost nevertheless) in several important elections: NJ, VA, AL - where were these conspiring, fiendish Russians?

This is no different than their recent hysteria around Mueller's hypothetical firing - which of course never happened. Once again, they *needed* this to happen in order to continue feeding their delusion. The fact that Trump doesn't care enough to fire him (a perfectly legal act) speaks volumes, along with the fact that not a single shred of evidence has come to light linking Trump to *any* illegal activity - including the non-Russia related indictments against some long-term DC insiders (the charges stem largely from incidents *before* joining the Trump campaign)

What has come to light, however, is the myriad of evidence demonstrating significant anti-Trump political bias by key investigators throughout this process.

One giant nothing-burger. Sadly they won't believe it even after Mueller finds nothing in his witch hunt. They'll probably claim Putin got to him, and that it wasn't his fault because he was a "sleeper Soviet" all along. :rollseyes:

Get over it, Russian conspiracy peddlers.

a reply to: JBurns

whats scary is how much theyve found that points in the other direction. will they act on any of that when they went into a frenzy over an ambassador talking to foreigners? doubtful. so far the mueller investigation has exposed a ton of DC and should have those very same people up in arms but we all know the rulebook changes willy nilly for them

Of course all the difficult (read: impossible to answer without coming to the same conclusion I have) questions I posed will be twisted and ignored, or otherwise deflected away from - much like they have done in the numerous threads I've authored on the subject.

I'm done arguing about it, so I'll just say this. Trump-conservatives see through your BS, and this group won't allow this President to be removed under anything less than a totally credible and fully transparent display of due process and absolute impartiality. His guilt (read: violating an actual law, not this "collusion" arm-chair lawyer BS) must be demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt. Anything short of that is risking a civil war, or major unrest with a total loss of confidence in the government at a bare minimum.

But there's no real risk of that. The fact Mueller still stands (and isn't in the unemployment line) is a testament to that fact. Unless of course you believe Trump started giving a # what congressional Democrats and their sycophants thought of him and his actions.

(hint: he hasn't)

a reply to: TheScale

Oh of course not. Much in the same way Tony Podesta and his co-conspirators haven't been indicted. Podesta even suddenly resigned, and the new CEO shut the company down suddenly after 30 years. Apparently that is good enough for Democrats, though. But if you're a Republican (or associated with Trump), then only criminal charges will do.

Hillary Clinton, Mills, Abedin and her other co-conspirators provably lied to FBI agent Peter Strozok (the one who was exposed) during their interview. They stated they didn't know Clinton was using a private server, despite their leaked emails proving they did in fact know at the time they were asked. This is *EXACTLY* what Flynn pleaded guilty to. He lied about contacts he was under *absolutely no obligation to report* which demonstrates the nature of his non-related "crime"

In fact, if Flynn would've simply admitted it OR said absolutely nothing then no charges could've been brought against him.

The hysteria is starting to piss me off, and it is time for Democrats to put up or shut up. Produce your evidence, or admit the crap that comes out of their mouth is nothing more than psycho-rage hysterics lashing out in anger directly as a result of being the sorest losers in the history of total losers.

The most important thing is political advocacy. We need to make sure Trump voters turn up in numbers (and are given every opportunity to do so, as well).

The only way to punish Democrats for their lies and hysteria is to ensure another Dem never holds the highest office. I forsee future inquisitions to the line of: "Have you ever, or do you currently engage in baseless politically motivated accusations."

Trump's agenda is solid. If he can enact that agenda, then I have no doubt the American people will give him another 4 years. In the mean time, we should continue emphasizing his drastic achievements (more than any President in recent history, in the first year) and his total, unwavering commitment to Americans.

Once the truth is known about this particular scandal/attack/plot (as others have been coming out), I predict the most stunning loss for Dems in the last century.

originally posted by: Phage

I can't do that, and I don't think anyone else here can do so.

The investigation is ongoing. Don'cha know.

You mean "the fake witch hunt is ongoing meanwhile the left-wing media keeps coming up with false stories and false claims about the Trump administration, because they keep trying to brainwash the American public into believing President Trump works for the Russians"...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

If it's all a fake witch hunt, then why worry so much and act so damn hysterical? I mean, going so far as to threaten purges at the FBI and whatnot?

The GOP and Trump administration are certainly not acting like how innocent people act....

Sure, liberals called the Benghazi crap a partisan ruse (which it totally was, the end result had the GOP admitting they found nothing) -- but Democrats in the House/Senate and the POTUS (Obama) didn't slander/sully the name of the FBI and issue threats to them.

Funny how all these "blue lives matter" folks on here are all anti-FBI these days, less than a year after the FBI basically handed Trump the presidency from the clutches of Hillary. If it wasn't for the Russian mole-infested NY FBI field office and Chaftez leaking Comey's congressional memo, Hillary would have likely won the 60-80,000 votes she needed in key battleground states to flip the electoral college in her favor.

Conservatives in late 2016: We love the FBI! They're gonna reopen the Buttery Males investigation! Oh WHAT? It cost Hillary the election!? Comey is my homie!

Conservatives in late 2017: FBI DEEP STATE CONSPIRACY!! ARUGH! They're partisan hacks after our beloved god-king emperor! Trash the FBI!

It's a lot easier to convince people of the wrong thing, than to convince them that they're wrong.