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The Myth of The Lying President

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posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 11:47 AM
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originally posted by: bearclan

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope


There is a very big difference between not knowing what you are saying is untrue, and knowing what you are saying is untrue with the intention to deceive others.



You are basically saying that Trump is an idiot and doesn't know any better. Kind of like a child.


The premise is that false statements aren’t necessarily lies. You’ll have to either a) call them false statements instead of lies or b) prove them to be lies. If neither of those conditions are met, you are, by your own standard, lying.

If Trump is an idiot then all of you sitting on your rump googling the answers to your lives are vegetables and invalids.
edit on 27-12-2017 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 12:14 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Well Trump is an idiot, that is not a lie or a false statemement.


All Pants on Fire! statements involving Donald Trump




White nationalist protesters in Charlottesville "had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit." — Donald Trump on Tuesday, August 15th, 2017 in a question-and-answer session with reporters

What he actually said.
"Because I don’t know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit. So I only tell you this. There are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country, a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country."


Our ruling
Trump said that white nationalist protesters in Charlottesville "had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit."

In reality, both the Unite the Right marchers and the counter-protesters had official permission to assemble on Saturday, either from a court or from the city. If Trump meant to refer to the Friday night march, then neither side would have needed a permit to assemble. And if he did mean Friday night’s march, then he is seriously distorting the torch-light march by saying participants were "protesting very quietly."

We rate the statement Pants on Fire.



So is this a lie or a false statement? If it is a false statement and not a lie, then by the rules you set, Trump has no clue what is actually going on when he makes a statement. If he does know what is going on, then he lied and willfully ignored that the other side also had a permit.




Before the presidential campaign, "I didn't know Steve (Bannon)." — Donald Trump on Tuesday, April 11th, 2017 in media comments
What he said..."I like Steve, but you have to remember he was not involved in my campaign until very late," Trump said. "I had already beaten all the senators and all the governors, and I didn’t know Steve. I’m my own strategist, and it wasn’t like I was going to change strategies because I was facing crooked Hillary.

"Steve is a good guy, but I told them to straighten it out or I will," Trump said.

That’s an altogether different story than Trump told when he first hired Bannon, a former top editor at the conservative website Breitbart, onto his campaign staff last fall. It also directly contradicts the public record.

Trump announced the hiring of Bannon and adviser Kellyanne Conway as part of the Trump campaign on Aug. 17, 2016. Here’s what he said at that time:

"I have known Steve and Kellyanne both for many years. They are extremely capable, highly qualified people who love to win and know how to win," Trump said. "I believe we’re adding some of the best talents in politics, with the experience and expertise needed to defeat Hillary Clinton in November and continue to share my message and vision to Make America Great Again. I am committed to doing whatever it takes to win this election, and ultimately become President because our country cannot afford four more years of the failed Obama-Clinton policies which have endangered our financial and physical security."

So, in Trump’s own words he either "didn’t know Steve," or he has "known Steve … for many years."

Our ruling

Trump said that before the presidential campaign, "I didn’t know Steve," referring to Steve Bannon.

That’s contradicted by Trump’s own words and independent reporting.


So is he making a false statement or a lie? If he is making a false statement, then is something wrong with him mentally to forget those years he knew or heard of Steve Bannon? I believe this fits your criteria of a lie, he willfully tried to deceive people about his relationship with Bannon.

So much more at that page.

Here are some more.
Here Are 100 Lies And False Statements From Trump's First 100 Days

I think you are just trolling people on here.
There are countless instances of Trump lying and many have been proven to be in fact lies and not false statements. Enjoy your trolling.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 12:23 PM
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a reply to: bearclan

Sure, they were false statements, but to assume these are the results of personality deficiencies and not other external factors is known as the Fundamental attribution error. Enjoy your bias.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 12:23 PM
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a reply to: bearclan

You nailed it. Trolling for sure. If you follow this guy's logic then nobody has ever told a lie.

So with that in mind, I'm sexy, smart and rich. Now prove I am lying.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 12:28 PM
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originally posted by: Eshel
a reply to: bearclan

You nailed it. Trolling for sure. If you follow this guy's logic then nobody has ever told a lie.

So with that in mind, I'm sexy, smart and rich. Now prove I am lying.


Sarcasm isn’t lying either. Why don’t you run to the dictionary to confirm.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 12:35 PM
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a reply to: bearclan

In your first example Trump was talking out of his ass using information that was not really available. If you recall, no one really knew much detail that was factual for several days. Initially it looked like to extremist groups going fisticuffs in the streets, until more detail emerged to provide additional clarity.

So that is not a lie, its Trump stating untrue facts he believed to be true. Unless you have evidence he was briefed with correct information prior to stating that.

Your second example is a lie. Although it didn't get sweeping (and costly) healthcare reform enacted, or get us into a war.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 12:38 PM
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There are circumstances when a person has an obligation to KNOW before they make 'statements of fact'. For example, in the Spring of 2007, then President Bush and Sen. John McCain went before the country and the world and stated that the economy was strong and everything was great. We all know that only 6mos later the economy was in nearly unprecedented free-fall. Now if I said it, it would be no big deal. But those two gentlemen had an obligation to know the true facts. People made decisions based upon their statement. People were hurt as a result. What if your Dr. tells you that you have cancer because he's not a pathologist and only 'thinks' he can interpret frozen sections? What about if your boat captain 'thinks' he can navigate the boat?



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 01:33 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

In my experience, the only time someone will not accept that a lie requires you to know its not true are people who are hell bent on someone being wrong no matter the truth.



There is a very big difference between not knowing what you are saying is untrue, and knowing what you are saying is untrue with the intention to deceive others.

I’m not saying Trump doesn’t lie—he was recently speaking to children about the whereabouts of Santa— but that convicting someone as a pathological liar because they said some inaccurate things is dangerous.


"Enjoy your bias."

Arguably one of the greatest Trump threads I've seen on ATS.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: RomeByFire

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

In my experience, the only time someone will not accept that a lie requires you to know its not true are people who are hell bent on someone being wrong no matter the truth.



There is a very big difference between not knowing what you are saying is untrue, and knowing what you are saying is untrue with the intention to deceive others.

I’m not saying Trump doesn’t lie—he was recently speaking to children about the whereabouts of Santa— but that convicting someone as a pathological liar because they said some inaccurate things is dangerous.


"Enjoy your bias."

Arguably one of the greatest Trump threads I've seen on ATS.


Thank you. I was hoping to pass the RomeByFire test of quality this entire time.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 02:00 PM
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Bush lied.

Clinton lied.

Obama lied.

Trump lied.....***Trump supporter*** "NO HE DIDN'T".....

you would have to be massively blinded by politics to believe that your guy does not lie.

Trump lie, he said he would release his tax returns if elected as POTUS, he has not done this, so he lied.

Please stop with this silly narrative that Trump is somehow above all of the usual dirty tricks of politics (Rodger stone was a close adviser for the love of god!).



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 02:04 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Bush lied.

Clinton lied.

Obama lied.

Trump lied.....***Trump supporter*** "NO HE DIDN'T".....

you would have to be massively blinded by politics to believe that your guy does not lie.

Trump lie, he said he would release his tax returns if elected as POTUS, he has not done this, so he lied.

Please stop with this silly narrative that Trump is somehow above all of the usual dirty tricks of politics (Rodger stone was a close adviser for the love of god!).


I don't think a single person in this thread espouses the view you seem to be pigeonholing here.

In fact, the general gist of this thread is "of course Trump lies. They all do. So why are his petty lies meaningful?" On top of, "90% of the crap you call lies aren't lies, because he believed them to be true."



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 02:14 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
In fact, the general gist of this thread is "of course Trump lies. They all do. So why are his petty lies meaningful?"

Maybe because he was sold as someone different than all the rest.
edit on 27-12-2017 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 02:42 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
In fact, the general gist of this thread is "of course Trump lies. They all do. So why are his petty lies meaningful?"

Maybe because he was sold as someone different than all the rest.


Caveat emptor led me to believe he was continuing to be FOS, though. LOL

Same as Mr. Hope n Change.

Caveat emptor.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 02:47 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I guess some people are trying to get some of his cheerleaders to swing over to your way of thinking or at least a little closer to it.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 02:58 PM
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originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I guess some people are trying to get some of his cheerleaders to swing over to your way of thinking or at least a little closer to it.


To do that would require pulling out the biggest machete known to man to hack through almost a full generation of identity politics usurping conscious, rational thought.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Of course and this thread is an example of that.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 03:26 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Flatfish
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Oh he’s lying alright and most of the time, it’s about as deliberate as a lie can get. If anything, calling him a pathological liar is an understatement.

You people really should quit trying to make excuses for his behavior, it makes you look bad.

Trump is a bold faced liar of epic proportions and for you to even attempt to compare his disorder with childhood innocence is absolutely pathetic.


As I said, repeating the initial claim isn’t proof of anything but your own persistence to spread a lie. You look bad.


No, you’re the one who looks like a fool if you think I’m gonna waste my time proving the falsities of Trump’s daily tweets and orations to you.

If you can’t even identify Trump’s most obvious lies for yourself, I doubt that I’m gonna change anything anyway.

Willful delusion is just that, it’s willful.


No I’m asking you to prove that they are lies, something that you or anyone here has yet to do. As I’ve now stated many times, simply repeating the charge isn’t enough, at least outside the mental kangaroo courts you call news.


What you don’t seem to understand is that neither I nor anyone else is under any obligation to prove to you the fact that Trump is a lying assed son-of-a-bitch.

Most of his lies are easily recognized by anyone with half a brain and if you’re having problems with the rest of them, look them up yourself.

In case you hadn’t noticed, it’s only yourself and other delusional Trumpettes who are having any difficulty distinguishing between his lies and the truth.



I’m beginning to believe you cannot prove a single thing, and you’ve been living a lie for this long. All you have is the sheer force of repetition to justify believing a myth.


Why don’t you just take a look at the inauguration crowd photo submitted by DJW001 three post previous to the one I quoted you from?

Or are you just like Trump in believing that aerial photography is just a theory? Jesus man, the guy lies damn near every time he opens his mouth.

If you can’t tell that Trump is a lair of the highest order, that’s your problem and I could give a rats ass about what you think of me.
edit on 27-12-2017 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 03:34 PM
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a reply to: Flatfish

Just out of curiosity....do you find the crowd size farce to be of any relevance to the governance of our country? If so, what impact has it had on key areas such as economy, military, crime, taxes, etc? If not, then why is it even worth concerning yourself with?

From where I stand, it was all a conflation so that trolls could troll and snicker over the inane. But im curious if im missing something, since this keep getting legs to walk again.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 03:36 PM
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a reply to: Flatfish

You proved he was wrong, mistaken, given false information, not privy to the facts. What you have not proven is that he lied, and your insistence that you have, and that everyone should believe you, is itself a lie.



posted on Dec, 27 2017 @ 03:38 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Bush lied.

Clinton lied.

Obama lied.

Trump lied.....***Trump supporter*** "NO HE DIDN'T".....

you would have to be massively blinded by politics to believe that your guy does not lie.

Trump lie, he said he would release his tax returns if elected as POTUS, he has not done this, so he lied.

Please stop with this silly narrative that Trump is somehow above all of the usual dirty tricks of politics (Rodger stone was a close adviser for the love of god!).


I never said he didn’t lie, and your suggestion that I have is itself a lie.




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