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Gravity - a constant force - or fast frequency like electric AC sine wave?

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posted on Dec, 24 2017 @ 11:49 PM
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originally posted by: charlyv
The average voltage of a sine wave is 0.637 of the peak value. It is the same relationship with amperage. As far as power (wattage), .707 is the magic number due to reluctance, reactance and resistance.

Alternating current is sinusoidal with a symmetrical waveform of voltage which is half positive and half negative, the average of which is exactly zero. What you are doing is using half a cycle and ignoring the other half as in the second paragraph here, or talking about RMS or "Root Mean Square" voltage which is not an "average", it's what a multimeter usually measures.

www.electronics-tutorials.ws...

For a periodic waveform, the area above the horizontal axis is positive while the area below the horizontal axis is negative. The result is that the average or mean value of a symmetrical alternating quantity is zero because the area above the horizontal axis (the positive half cycle) is the same as the area below the axis (the negative half cycle) and cancel each other out in the sum of the two areas as a negative cancels a positive producing zero average voltage.

Then the average or mean value of a symmetrical alternating quantity, such as a sine wave, is the average value measured over only half a cycle since over a complete cycle the average value is zero regardless of the peak amplitude.
It's more useful to talk about half a cycle because it's not as useful to talk about a "measurement" which is always zero, but that's the real average of the entire AC waveform, zero.

Moreover since gravity hasn't been observed to have the same properties as electromagnetism, the "trick" for calculating RMS AC voltage that's based on the properties of electromagnetism isn't likely to work on gravity.


edit on 20171225 by Arbitrageur because: clarification




posted on Dec, 24 2017 @ 11:53 PM
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um. No, US AC is 60Hz not 60,000 Hz..



posted on Dec, 25 2017 @ 12:06 AM
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a reply to: DigginFoTroof


I'm glad you said this. If it has the same "alignment" as AC sine wave, then yes, it would be zero. What I am suggesting is that there may be forces the same as the 2 sides of the AC sine wave but what may change is where the zero point is located or if there are other factors that factor into the equation which generate a "positive" gravitational force.

The very definition of a sinusoidal wave places the zero-point line at exactly halfway between the alternating peaks. A naturally-occurring sine wave is created by oscillation of a field or particle(s) between the two extremes, with a central value summed over an entire cycle of zero.

If one wishes to change the zero-line, as in combine a DC voltage with an AC sinusoidal signal, the signal will ride the top of the DC voltage. The average result will still be the DC voltage, as the sine wave will still reduce to zero over a period of 2n*pi (full wavelength). Another poser pointed out the average value of 0.637 of the peak value, but that is the average magnitude, not the algebraic sum. RMS (root-mean-square) value will be 0.707 of the peak voltage.

In simple terms... one cannot have a sine wave with a zero-line anywhere except at zero. It ceases to be a sine wave and becomes something else, and that something else is very difficult to achieve, especially in nature.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 25 2017 @ 12:09 AM
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If every action has an equal and opposite reaction, then what is the opposite action to gravity?



posted on Dec, 25 2017 @ 01:46 AM
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a reply to: stormcell

No problem...

Although ac current has a 50 or 60hz swing + to -, the effect is still the same. It does not zero out. The + and - are just the directional flow of the current. They do not zero out. No matter which direction, it has the same effect.



posted on Dec, 25 2017 @ 05:59 AM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: DigginFoTroof


I'm glad you said this. If it has the same "alignment" as AC sine wave, then yes, it would be zero. What I am suggesting is that there may be forces the same as the 2 sides of the AC sine wave but what may change is where the zero point is located or if there are other factors that factor into the equation which generate a "positive" gravitational force.

The very definition of a sinusoidal wave places the zero-point line at exactly halfway between the alternating peaks. A naturally-occurring sine wave is created by oscillation of a field or particle(s) between the two extremes, with a central value summed over an entire cycle of zero.

If one wishes to change the zero-line, as in combine a DC voltage with an AC sinusoidal signal, the signal will ride the top of the DC voltage. The average result will still be the DC voltage, as the sine wave will still reduce to zero over a period of 2n*pi (full wavelength). Another poser pointed out the average value of 0.637 of the peak value, but that is the average magnitude, not the algebraic sum. RMS (root-mean-square) value will be 0.707 of the peak voltage.

In simple terms... one cannot have a sine wave with a zero-line anywhere except at zero. It ceases to be a sine wave and becomes something else, and that something else is very difficult to achieve, especially in nature.

TheRedneck


I agree with everything that you said and IDK if I didn't make it clear as to what I meant. Maybe when there is no gravity, that is when the force IS a sine wave but we experience a constant force - G=1 and this could be because the zero point has moved in a direction to allow for the force that we experience. This means that there may still be times where there is a "negative" gravity, but the larger positive part gives an average of what we feel as G=1. Were this line to move lower, then G would be greater but there may still be periods where the force is below the zero point and points where the force is much higher than the G=1.



posted on Dec, 25 2017 @ 06:47 AM
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a reply to: DigginFoTroof

This is extremely difficult to explain on a message board in anything but the most general terms, but what you are describing is a sinusoidal waveform imposed on a constant, compared to a constant. The average is the same. In both cases, a constant force is required, so the sinusoidal waveform makes no difference to the actual average force.

It makes no difference because that constant force is required in both cases. We do not yet know where it comes from.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 25 2017 @ 07:31 AM
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originally posted by: carpooler
a reply to: intrptr

A long time ago, I had a Prof. who specified that Isaac Newton originally described gravity, "as a force which acts as if at a distance". Most books leave out that very big "if". So then, Newton and Einstein were a lot closer together than is commonly thought. Or at least, that's what he lectured us on.



Gravity acts more like a field, like magnets and Electromagnetic fields. Still, how do we explain the "Surface Tension" in the video?



posted on Dec, 25 2017 @ 07:31 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
If every action has an equal and opposite reaction, then what is the opposite action to gravity?

Momentum(?)



posted on Dec, 25 2017 @ 08:23 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
If every action has an equal and opposite reaction, then what is the opposite action to gravity?

Gravity.

The earth attracts the moon. The moon attracts the earth. Those gravitational attraction forces are equal and opposite.



posted on Dec, 25 2017 @ 08:25 AM
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You could stretch a 3 dimensional slinky until you could photograph it in 2 dimensions as a frozen sinusoidal wave.
But the quantum world doesn't obey classic physics or operate within classic time/dimension paradigms.




posted on Dec, 25 2017 @ 09:03 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: carpooler
a reply to: intrptr

A long time ago, I had a Prof. who specified that Isaac Newton originally described gravity, "as a force which acts as if at a distance". Most books leave out that very big "if". So then, Newton and Einstein were a lot closer together than is commonly thought. Or at least, that's what he lectured us on.



Gravity acts more like a field, like magnets and Electromagnetic fields. Still, how do we explain the "Surface Tension" in the video?


Surface tension is caused by the van-der-waals forces of the water molecules. Each molecule of H2O is slightly polarized in that there is a positive charge next to the hydrogen atoms and a negative charge around the Oxygen molecule. This makes the atoms want to stick together like syrup. Those molecules inside any blob have forces that are balanced and sum to zero. Those on the boundary surface have forces pulling them inwards.



posted on Dec, 25 2017 @ 10:23 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr

Gravity acts more like a field, like magnets and Electromagnetic fields. Still, how do we explain the "Surface Tension" in the video?


Well, the surface tension is due to the Coulomb force. Water has a strong surface tension because water molecules are highly polar, that is to say they're like little bar magnets. They have a positive side and a negative side and they interlock. If I'm not mistaken this is also what causes snowflakes to look like they do, it has to do with the angle between the the two hydrogen atoms.

I think I get what you're saying though. If you could grab the live wire at precisely the right time 60 times a second you would not get zapped. Or if you blinked fast enough under a fluorescent light the room would seem dark. Gravity definitely does propagate as a wave at the speed of light. Evidence has been observed at the LIGO experiment, but it also makes sense because the strength of gravity decreases as the inverse square, just like the intensity of light. And the electric field strength. And since the magnetic field is a relativistic effect of observing an electric field from a different reference frame it does too, from a certain point of view. I guess that's just how life is when you live in 3 spacelike dimensions and 1 timelike dimension.



posted on Dec, 25 2017 @ 12:30 PM
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originally posted by: stormcell

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: carpooler
a reply to: intrptr

A long time ago, I had a Prof. who specified that Isaac Newton originally described gravity, "as a force which acts as if at a distance". Most books leave out that very big "if". So then, Newton and Einstein were a lot closer together than is commonly thought. Or at least, that's what he lectured us on.



Gravity acts more like a field, like magnets and Electromagnetic fields. Still, how do we explain the "Surface Tension" in the video?


Surface tension is caused by the van-der-waals forces of the water molecules. Each molecule of H2O is slightly polarized in that there is a positive charge next to the hydrogen atoms and a negative charge around the Oxygen molecule. This makes the atoms want to stick together like syrup. Those molecules inside any blob have forces that are balanced and sum to zero. Those on the boundary surface have forces pulling them inwards.

Okay thanks. (dumb question)So how is that different than gravity?



posted on Dec, 25 2017 @ 12:34 PM
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a reply to: Cauliflower

Imo, those inward spirals are subatomic particles that have been blasted out of and returning TO their stable atomic orbits (valence shells).

Thats gravity on an atomic scale (strong force), difference between that and stars and planets is scale.

.o2



posted on Dec, 25 2017 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: Zelun

I appreciate that description. In space the water 'sticks' to itself and other dissimilar objects. On earth if you drop water it 'sticks' to the earth.

In outer space is this how suns form wherein hydrogen clouds, atoms stick to other hydrogen atoms forming clumps that combine and eventually make a sun, due to the same principal of "surface tension"?



posted on Dec, 25 2017 @ 12:42 PM
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a reply to: Zelun

Sorry relying twice...


I guess that's just how life is when you live in 3 spacelike dimensions and 1 timelike dimension.

Best observation, from a certain point of view.

Except the first 'three' are really one, the fourth is 'everywhere' and 'everywhen'.



posted on Dec, 25 2017 @ 02:47 PM
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originally posted by: Zelun
Gravity definitely does propagate as a wave at the speed of light. Evidence has been observed at the LIGO experiment
The LIGO experiment is not measuring gravity, it's measuring distortions in space-time, called gravitational waves. Gravitational waves are not gravity, they are gravitational waves, something related to gravity, but not the same thing, so your statement isn't actually true. There are also "gravity waves" which are neither gravitational waves nor gravity, but even those do not show a wave-like nature of gravity, they the restoring force of gravity for things like planetary atmospheres, but the wave-like nature is manifested in the planetary atmosphere and no wave-like nature of gravity is needed to predict this effect.



posted on Dec, 25 2017 @ 03:08 PM
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a reply to: Arbitrageur


Gravitational waves are not gravity, they are gravitational waves, something related to gravity, but not the same thing

Exactly!

A somewhat apt analogy is that gravitational waves are akin to waves in water, while gravity itself is akin to a current. Related, but not the same.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 25 2017 @ 04:45 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Maybe it's on the otherside of the universe?

I dunno



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