Group Project time

A member of one of my groups online is looking for more information, and I'm thinking that some of our more research minded folks can help. So far there's very little information out there. On December 24th, of 1957 an RB-57 was shot down over the Black Sea. Some sources say it was a SAM, other sources say it was Soviet fighters. He's trying to find out the crew, tail number, and unit of the aircraft involved. The sources I've found so far (in like the last five minutes) just say "RB-57 shot down over the Black Sea".

Considering some of the other things we've turned up in this forum, I think we might be able to find the information he's looking for. What do you guys think? Anyone up for the challenge?

I'm looking, but do you have a model variant? It looks like some of variants only had a few built, so that could help narrow it down.

a reply to: Shamrock6

It's believed to be an RB-57D. It was apparently December 24, 1957.

a reply to: Zaphod58

It's odd, because any reference I've found to that date and aircraft type is always just "shot down by MiG" or something, whereas other shoot-downs have a lot more information included.

In any event, I'm outta ideas. I've found some stuff about other aircraft types and close, but not identical, dates but that's as close as I got.

a reply to: Shamrock6

That's the problem I'm running into too. I found one source that said it was the first aircraft shot down with a SAM, and all the others said fighter.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I went so far as to check the CIA Memorial Wall to see if any dates of loss lined up with that and didn't find anything, even under an unnamed Star. I got nothin' man

The first one shot down by a SAM was 7, October 1959. “5643” was a CIA operation flown by Chinese nationalists. It was a D model. Piloted by Capt. Ying Ching Wang. Taken by a SA-2.

Not the one you’re looking for, but noteworthy so it’s not mistaken for what you ARE hunting.

“In early 1956, the 4080th SR Wing moved to Laughlin AFB, Texas. Midair-refuelling capable RB-57Ds (Group B and the sole Type C) were deployed in 1957 to Rhein-Main AB, West Germany to support USAFE operations. All RB-57D operations were under heavy security and very little information ever leaked out about their early operations. They presumably carried out ELINT/SIGINT missions along the East German border and over the Baltic Sea.”

“The squadron would become fully operational with its first six RB-57Ds only 120 days from the delivery of its first RB-57D. Those first six aircraft, all Group A RB-57Ds, deployed Yokota AB, Japan and to Eielson AFB, Alaska in late 1956 for reconnaissance missions over what is presumed to be China, North Korea and the Soviet Union. The detachment at Yokota was used to monitor fall-out from Soviet tests in Operation Sea Lion. Other sorties were flown over Communist China, the RB-57D's operational ceiling being well above that of Chinese MiG-15s. The Eielson-based aircraft conducted ELINT around the Kamchatka Peninsula of the Soviet Union. On 15 Dec 1956 three aircraft overflew Vladivostok.”


Everything relating to the 24, Dec incident is pretty vague... I’m going to keep looking. You’ve piqued my interest.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Only had a quick look so far, seems another was downed over the Black Sea in 1965 as well with question marks over that as well?

a reply to: solidshot

December 14, 1965

There's some information about that one, but nothing official that I've seen.

Claim here that the 1957 one all crew were killed

Christmas Eve 1957 A USAF RB-57 was shot down over the Black Sea by Soviet fighters and its crew all died.

migluver.wordpress.com...

Seemingly not a lot of evidence to back this up though?

a reply to: solidshot

No there isn't. That's what has everyone intrigued.

Russian sources say that it was shot down by soviet fighters (MiG-17 I guess). So that is probably correct.

a reply to: moebius

Almost certainly. What's interesting is there's no information on the aircraft or the crew. Others have the tail number, squadron, crew names and ranks, etc. This one just has "shot down" listed.

Did the Mig-17 have an operational Ceiling high enough to engage a RB-57?

a reply to: solidshot

The MiG could get up to around 50k feet, so it wasn't chump-change at least.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Aye true, the cruise ceiling on a RB-57D was what around 65k or so though?

a reply to: solidshot

The service ceiling is 82,000 feet. I have an easier time believing it was an Su-7 or something along those lines, with an air to air missile honestly. The Su-7 could reach almost 60,000 feet and in a zoom climb with an air to air missile could reach up to where the -57 was. It almost had to be an air to air missile kill, and the MiG-17 carried rockets but not missiles. The Su-7 entered service at the right time, and had missiles.

Well Zaph, I called an old RAF mate, his dad was on Lightnings, then Canberras & Victors - he did have a check with his old man (he's 87 now) and he's pretty certain it was a missile hit, something about a "be aware" alert going to RAF crews at the time, back in the days when altitude was king.

There's no documentary evidence to back it up though,, just an old man's memory.

Hmm, according to the internet only 20 RB-57D have been built.

It looks like all of them are listed here:
www.millionmonkeytheater.com...

Only one is listed as shot down.

RB-57D-MA s/n 53-3978
*11/1958: Transferred to the Taiwanese AF as "5643".
*1958-59: 2nd Squadron. Or 4th Squadron?
*10/7/1959: Shot down by a Chinese SA-2 SAM near Beijing,

a reply to: GrumpyBollocks

That's probably how we're going to have to solve this. I don't think we're going to find much documented evidence at this point. Thanks for the info!