OK, there are no life forms beyound planet Earth that we actually know of

a reply to: antar

Keep questioning, stay innocent and curious.

Words of Wisdom

Merry Christmas

originally posted by: musicismagic
Was there life before God created the universe is my main question here. I say or think this because I like to think out of the "box" of the mind control of religion or of forced govt education .

Scientist argue the Universe does not need a creator because it has always existed. The problem has to do with the idea of nothingness. No one has ever experienced nothingness. We have no evidence for the existence of the state of nothingness. Since we have no evidence, nothingness never existed. Just because we can imagine nothingness doesn't mean it is a possibility in reality.

Another problem with God created the Universe is the idea of zero = infinity. At the time of the Big Bang we had zero volume but essentially infinite mass. At the moment a black hole is formed you have the same state. So many scientists believe black holes give birth to white holes. The idea is our Big Bang is the result of star collapsing to a black hole in a previously existing space-time dimension. There billions of stars collapsing to black holes in our Universe which are all possibly giving birth to new space-time dimensions. Obviously this is much larger Universe and span of time than one can possibly imagine in one's head.

But I will go even bigger to the biggest possible conscious thought a human being can have. I will define God as conscious experience of every possible quantum state actualized in reality over the entire multi-verse and every space-time dimension from nothingness to the omega state. Somewhere in one of those alternate realities you are president of the United States. And in another alternate reality you are mass murderer. Every possible quantum state MUST be realized for God to be complete and omnipotent.

i don't think "God" created the universe the way you think, i think "God" exploded, creating the universe and everything in it

originally posted by: dan121212
i don't think "God" created the universe the way you think, i think "God" exploded, creating the universe and everything in it

As good a theory as any other!

a reply to: dan121212

You mean like the Big Bang?

I don't believe in it, but i'd like to hear your theories.

a reply to: Sapphire

There's very good evidence support the big bang. It's not much of leap to believe it is science fact.

This is the Cosmic Microwave Background which has been accurately measured by orbiting detectors, and is very good evidence that the Big Bang theory is correct.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Yes, maybe. I'm trying to locate information claiming it's not. Something i read two years ago. Give me some time.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Sapphire

There's very good evidence support the big bang. It's not much of leap to believe it is science fact.

This is the Cosmic Microwave Background which has been accurately measured by orbiting detectors, and is very good evidence that the Big Bang theory is correct.

www.iflscience.com...

Two physicists are trying to revive one of the great debates of twentieth-century science, arguing that the Big Bang may never have happened. Their work presents a radically different vision of the universe from the one cosmologists now work with.

The term Big Bang was created by astrophysicist Fred Hoyle as a way to mock the theory. Hoyle thought of the universe as like an endlessly flowing river, saying “Things are they way they are, because they were the way they were.” However, the weight of evidence—particularly the discovery of the cosmic background radiation—led the scientific community to overwhelmingly favor the idea that the universe came into being from a single, infinitely dense point.

Nevertheless, the problem of what, if anything, came before the Big Bang has continued to trouble many scientists, along with questions about how it actually occurred.

a reply to: Sapphire

As I said in a previous post many scientist believe the black holes create white holes. But I do like different interpretations to the same data points. It's always fun to speculate possibilities over the same evidence set.

One thing for sure is nature always turns out to be much stranger than anything we can ever imagine. For example, no one imagined we would discover evidence that not only is the Universe expanding but accelerating. But many scientists are uncomfortable with boundless amounts of dark energy pumping acceleration into the Universe. At some point everything will start moving at the speed of light and the Universe will go black. God is crazy!

a reply to: dfnj2015

Of course. It's fun to theorize. But, Trusting solely in those who claim to be correct is stupidity.

Let me ask you..

Do you believe what the Bible says? If so Why, and if not Why?

a reply to: musicismagic

They have found bacteria growing on the exterior of the ISS. Whether it's earthbound or space born.....it's technically "beyond Earth" and growing in the vacuum of Space.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: makalit
The God of Gods created them.

Yup, and it's turtles all the way down.

Yes, "Turles all the Way Down" a book about inherent mental illness and anxiety at understanding the nature of one's existence.

I am on the same stance, but, I think we both can start to get the bigger picture

As I write a long enough paragraph that will demonstrate a cycle on the left column of the higher nature being birthed
and creating what births

So let me get a long enough paragraph(s) down so we can both witness this

This could be the answer to the greatest question and perhaps not take the turtles out of the water as you say it

But steadily feel that it's ok they are there

2 more lines should be good

aksldjaslkdjalskjdalskdjlaskdjaslkdjasdlasdkjk my last words

originally posted by: musicismagic
Was there life before God created the universe is my main question here.

1. How would any of us know? All any of us can do is guess, repeat the guesses of others, or repeat the ideas in other ideologies/religions/creeds.

2. If you're talking religiously (Islam), then sure. Our universe is just a testing ground for souls while Heaven/Jannah is the "real" environment and Hell/Jahannam is like the trash bin. So life would've existed in Heaven/Jannah before God created the universe.

3. Then again, that depends on what you consider "life". Does God count as "life"? Do His angels? Do the other inhabitants of Heaven? If by "life" you mean "biological organisms similar to what has appeared on Earth", then who knows. These lifeforms may only be possible under this universe's settings (as in, our elements and laws of physics may only have these properties & characteristics in this universe).

But if you're saying "life" with the meaning of "anything with a sense of self", then humans haven't even begun to scratch the surface of what that may mean. So who knows.

ofcourse there was life before there was god. just follow religions back long enough and youll find a point where what we think of as a god or gods in recent history didnt even exist and hadent been created by man yet. my questions is, what happened to all the other gods and deities

And of course, our Big Bang could be the latest in a series of Big Bangs, at which point, my head starts to hurt and I want to soothe it with vodka. Partially kidding, I find this stuff really fascinating.

But what came before the Big Bang?

God.

Who created the initial mass from which a Bang might occur?

God.

If not the Big Bang, perhaps a Steady State, Cyclical, or Oscillating Universe or Multiverse is your preference -the originator of which can only have been:

God.

Even our limited but evolving science today does not yet allow something-from-nothing. Thus, prior to nothing, in order to create something from nothing, there must have been a creator:

God.

originally posted by: Sapphire
a reply to: dfnj2015

Of course. It's fun to theorize. But, Trusting solely in those who claim to be correct is stupidity.

Let me ask you..

Do you believe what the Bible says? If so Why, and if not Why?

Yes I agree about trusting people who claim to be correct is stupidity.

I am not irreverent to the Bible because I read it as metaphor not to be taken out of the historical context in which it was written. I do not believe the Bible is literal truth. An omnipotent God can create the Universe in any amount of time including all the fake carbon and fossil dating evidence. And omnipotent could have created the Universe just moments ago with all your fake memories intact just before you read this sentence. I think there is a lot in the Bible that makes me think it was written by men and not by God. However, the essential message of the Bible is morality is important is still a good message.

But I don't need the Bible to have morality. And I don't need the Bible to experience God. I live a moral life because I have empathy, compassion, and I am not a psychopath. I do not believe in Hell. I believe everyone is saved to experience eternal heavenly bliss regardless of our earthly sins or how we practiced or not practice our religion. My faith is in a God of unconditional love. Sins are conditions. A God of unconditional love saves everyone without conditions. The Bible was written by men who benefit from selling Bibles and collecting tithes. The idea that there is only one true path to salvation does not resonant with my way of thinking. There just way too many people in the world who do not follow the so called "one true path" not to be save by a all-power all-loving God. And since God is omnipotent, God need absolutely nothing from us. Since God needs nothing from us I am assuming he loves every piece of His creation no matter what the circumstances. And since I don't take pleasure in the idea of people suffering for ALL eternity, I don't have that much hate in my soul, I choose to have faith in an God of unconditional love. I choose to believe there will be salvation for everyone without conditions because I think that's what a all-powerful all-loving God would do.

That said, however, I do believe in science. It is really amazing how consistent nature is in performing the laws of physics without variability. If I drop something it hits the ground every time! You should try it. Since nature is relentless is performing the laws of physics perfectly, I tend to be a little skeptical when it comes to attributing supernatural causes when it comes to the affairs of man. I think God exists but God is completely indifferent to the affairs of man. I believe man is responsible for everything good and bad that happens in life. I choose believe in a creator God even though there is no evidence. But surely you can agree God is clearly pro-choice. Because based on human experiments, there is no amount of evil God will not tolerate in order to preserve our free-will. Again, nature is relentless in performing the laws of physics without any regard or judgment for what is good and what is evil.

I hope this answers your questions. Although I imagine if you are an idol worshiper, that is, someone who worships the words "Jesus Christ" or someone who worships the words in the Bible then I imagine you think I am going to burn in Hell. But how bad can it be? It can't be worse than living in New Jersey.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: makalit
The God of Gods created them.

Yup, and it's turtles all the way down.

You mean Turtles?

originally posted by: musicismagic
Was there life before God created the universe is my main question here.

It would have to depend on your definition of life.

Life may have existed however it would need to be beyond the dimensions that were created at the big bang.

I think the answer is that life may have existed prior to the big bang but as you are limited to a 4D space you would not be able to comprehend it.

a reply to: dfnj2015

The bible is a book of *mortality
People trying to come to terms with their short lives

"You think I am oing to burn in Hell. But how bad can it be? It can't be worse than living with a guy who chose to send a bunch of people to hell" ***

"God seems to be pro choice, allowing evil to persist, he doesn't seem to have a care for the affairs of man"
Not true he is guiding reality